357 mag compare to the 40 and 45?

JohnKSa said:
I don't disagree and my comment about poking holes was oversimplified. In some cases temporary cavity can cause injury and it is true that more energy applied results in larger temporary cavity.
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After close inspection a good number of holes, poked through 2 and 4 legged 'poke-ees', I'd have to say that your 'poked holes' comment is spot-on. What I have yet to see is significant secondary injury caused by anything other than bullet or bone fragments. This refers to handgun wounds and admittedly my 'samples' are under 100; in the case of the 4 legged ones, 'field autopsies', but still- I believe what I have seen and adjust accordingly. I am absolutely certain that I want-

1. precise placement, and
2. plenty of penetration.

Everything else is icing, as far as I'm concerned.

On the original subject matter, my thoughts can be found here.
 
Moxi, Sorry I am so late getting back. I have been off the net for several days. What i am talking about is an unknown .357 bullet that i got in a hand full of shells from a friend. It went off so hard that my bucket flew to pieces. fire spouted from my revolver in all directions, scorching the gun and my hands and leaving marks on the walls. little coals and sparks were all around and smoke hung in loops all around. What kind of bullet? I don't know, one loaded for cape buffalo? Maybe a hand-loaded joke round full of flake TNT? It was an odd loose round that was really something. As far as it not sounding like an effective round that's just plain silly. It wrecked the whole area. It split my bucket and splashed sopping paper everywhere. The wet paper probably stopped the place from burning down! Ok, maybe i am exaggerating just a little but from where i stood it was really something. I will tell you what, I wont be shooting unknown loose bullets anymore. don't trust your friends, open the box yourself!
 
If you fall onto very bad things, such as pointy or sharp ones, not much force is required.
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If that happens, it wouldn't be the fall that killed you, it would be a puncture wound. :D

Yes, you're right, of course. A fall without much energy and without a sudden stop could still kill if the landing surface was very "unfriendly".
 
Actually, the 357mag compares more closely to the 10mm rather than the 40s&w or lower pressure 45acp. Out of a 6" barrel, hot 158grn 357mag and hot 165grn 10mm ammo produce very similar velocities. Therefore, because the 10mm uses a has a bit higher weight and larger dia bullet, the performance edge goes to the 10mm. In addition, revolvers are more difficult to control under heavy recoil than are semi-auto pistols. In truth, hot 40s&w and 45acp+P loads are far behind the power of either the 357mag or 10mm.

That said, for a defensive weapon does one actually need the extra power over a 40s&w or 45acp? That is a good question and one for many, many hours of debate. As the owner of 357mag, 40s&w, 45acp, and 10mm pistols I use them for different purposes. To play I use my .357mag SAA while for HD I use my 40s&w or 45acp and to hunt I use my 10mm.
 
When shooting a bad guy that is standing facing you with his arms at his side (like a target) the 3 listed calibers will stop every bad guy with a single straight on hit to the center of the sternum.

The chaff starts to separate if the bullet has to get there at an odd angle, or go thru an heavy winter leather jacket, an arm, car window, plywood, combination of the above, etc etc etc. Pretty quick, the weaker rounds will no longer provide an effective stop. The amount of other junk you can blow through and still stop the bad guy is greater with the magnum than the .40, .45 or 9mm, etc.

It's been shown that in many, if not most, shootings a modern 9mm will provide nearly equal performance as the .45, .40 or even .357. (that may be a point of contention with some :rolleyes:;)) The odd ball cases like where penetration through a slanted car windshield is needed before getting to the bad guy are where the more powerful rounds shine. (or specialty rounds like .357sig). It's like carrying a large insurance policy. You may never ever need it, so do you pay for it every day? Many don't. The extra cost, flash, report, recoil and often lower capacity etc are the cost of more powerful rounds for those odd ball situations.
 
Specialty rounds like .357 SIG?

I wouldn't consider .357 SIG a "specialty round." It's been adopted by a lot of police agencies across the US as standard issue, and its popularity is rising.

It was designed to emulate the performance of the .357 magnum 125gr load out of a 3-4" barrel - which is a well-respected SD loading, but not really a "specialty." More of the standard by which other SD loads are judged.

I like the .357SIG quite a bit as a general purpose SD round. One of the other things I like about it is that many .357SIG handguns can be converted to .40S&W by simply changing out the barrel. This is a very useful feature when ammo isn't easy to find, a la last year.

What the .357SIG doesn't do well is take heavy bullets, because of limited case capacity. In heavy bullet loadings, the .357 magnum leaves the SIG in the dust. But in the 125gr neighborhood, given similar barrel lengths...
 
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The difference is that .45 and .357 kill you deader than .40 . Seriously.

In my experience having shot all three rounds from different guns, I would rate them in terms of sheer power as follows .357 .45 .40 But that has no scientific or statistical use to anyone.
 
Funny this should come up. Just a few weeks ago I was shooting jugs full of water with my .45 and .357. With crappy retail fodder, both blew the jugs and water all over the place.

I then pulled out my reloads and got after a bunch more jug's. The very hot XTP loaded up .45 ACP's made the sealed jugs explode. Nice improvement over the best common retail junk I had. I then shot jug's with my real hot .357's. Those induced a much more violent reaction than the .45's. And they also melted the plastic entering and leaving the jug. I also warned the other shooters at my country out door range. Hot stuff going down range. All laughed with delight when the .357's went off and did there job.

I've never seen a pistol bullet melt plastic jugs with water in it.

I then did the test with my CZ-52. Used surplus fodder and my reloads. Same thing happened with the HP reloads. The jug came apart like the .45 ACP with melted plastic bullet holes using the reloaded JHP.

So what melted the plastic where the bullets hit and the jugs being full of water? The shear amount of velocity. Or was it heat from the powered charge making the bullet that hot. Or both?

I also tried this with the wifes new Mod 60 Pro. Same results. My .357 is a new 4" 686P. I had some hot 9mm's with me that I had been shooting out of my Sigma. But I ran out of sealed retail water jugs. :(

Either way I'm liking the idea of cooking a hole in a BG.
 
I would vote for the 357 but I have never owned a 40 so I cant speak to that round. The 45 is an awesome round and I would trust my life to it but I like the 357 better mainly because I am a revolver guy though the new Coonan 357 magnum 1911s are really tempting to me.
 
The .357 Mag 125gr SJHP does NOT get 96% one-shot stops.. That's complete nonsense fabricated by M&S trying to sell their fictional Stopping Power books..
(I cannot believe people actually still think that information is true! ~Rampant) :rolleyes:

..And Chuck Hawks' information is merely regurgitated M&S fantasy.


"How does the .357 Manum compare to .45 ACP and .40 S&W?"
I'll answer with a quote by noted pathologist and author of the book Gunshot Wounds, Dr. Vincent Dimaio:
"Stopping power= Where you hit the person and how many times you can hit them."

Comparing handgun stopping power is like splitting hairs. Focus on accuracy, adrenaline control and getting out of the situation safely. Odds are the bullet will strike bone and not expand as designed. Plan on worst-case scenario
 
Uh, fellas... some of us were around when the .357/125 was the going thing in LE circles- and there were 'failures to stop' with that, too. Cops are better armed, with these 14-shot .40's, .223's etc. than they've ever been.

It is my opinion (based on decades of observation) that they are also better able to deal with in-your-face yank & blast gunfights, than they were 20 years ago. 'Across the street/bank parking lot' is another matter entirely.
 
skeeter said:
Top defensive round is the 357 125gr hp
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according to whom? Lemme guess..

Sevenfaces said:
The difference is that .45 and .357 kill you deader than .40. Seriously
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:rolleyes: seriously

All of these incredible stopping power myths surrounding the .357/125 are a result of the ficticious Strassbourg Goat Test, gun magazine fantasy, and M&S hyperbole.

Is the .357 Magnum a good defensive cartridge? Yes. But it isn't capable of producing 96% one-shot stops▬not even a shotgun is guaranteed to produce those kind of results. If the .357/125gr was so great, every LEA would be packin' .357 Sigs in modern autoloading handguns loaded with 125gr bullets. Don't believe the hype!

Is there a difference in stopping power between .45, .40 and .357? It depends on too many variables to factor in. The difference is so negligible as to be a moot point. Focus on training, accuracy and getting out of the situation▬not magical 125gr bullets
 
How does a 357 Mag compare to the 40 and 45 for stopping power?
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I think they're all three effective rounds. I have a slight preference for the 357 mag, but would feel very confident in either of the other two calibers, even though I don't own a 40. Quite a few LE agencies use the 40 and seem to be satisfied with its performance. And they have a lot more "hands on" experience with using pistols for defense than any of us ever will have.
 
Top defensive round is the 357 125gr hp.
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IMHO...I agree. If I had to choose only one pistol/revolver platform and I knew I was going to be in a gunfight...it would be my Ruger GP100 and Corbon 125 grain DPX.

My .45 ACP and 9mm would be left at home.

Just my opinion...and opinion only.
 
I heard a story about a guy on PCP who was beheaded with an axe and survived long enough to take the axe out of the executioner's hand and kill him with it
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Guess he should have used a .357 mag! Ha!

As someone who has owned handguns in many calibers, including the three being in question, I personally carry 1911s in either .45 auto or 10mm auto.

I haven't owned a 9mm in well over a decade now, still have some ammo on the ammo shelf though, nor a .40 S&W. Haven't owned a .38 for a while now, nor a .357 mag (and still have some ammo on the shelf too); and I don't miss any of them.

If I believe that I need penetration in a handgun cartridge, 10mm auto works better IMO than any of the three in the OP.

If I believe that I need a good two legged handgun cartridge, .45 auto is big and heavy; and I don't bother with +p, if I want more then I will carry my 10mm.

And bottom line: I shoot 1911s better than other handguns, and really enjoy shooting both 10mm auto and .45 auto, so that is what I daily carry (which cartridge depending on if I am going into town or out into The Bush); reloading pretty much takes most of the financial aspect out of the picture for practice.

And for me that is what it really and truly comes down to: which platform and cartridge combination works best for me; which do I shoot best. Because all handgun cartridges are a compromise and not really that powerful; and I don't really want to cart around a shotgun or magnum hunting rifle to get some bananas at the store.

So for me, out of the OPs three, .45 auto.
 
How does a 357 Mag compare to the 40 and 45 for stopping power?
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About the same. .357 gets there with a fast light bullet, .45 gets there with a slow heavy bullet, and .40 splits the difference almost exactly.

What is the most powerful 357 I can get and it that hollow point?
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Most powerful is not necessarily the best. sometimes less powerful bullets are better stoppers because more powerful ones will blow straight through the target and waste much of their energy on objects behind.

Anyway, the best round for personal defense is Federal 125 gr. JHP. This round is the gold standard of handgun stopping power. It's the round that earned the .357 its nickname "king of the streets." Use this round and you will live happily ever after.
 
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