.357 lever vs .223 semiauto for defense?

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16.5 inch barrel
158 grain bullet
2070 FPS
358 caliber
Energy 1503 Foot LBS
Momentum 46
TKO 16
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I bet there are people on this forum that reload the 223 that get that much energy out of them.

In my mind there is no doubt about the 223. 30 rounds vs 10 rounds. Faster follow up shots. Less sheet rock penetration (with the right bullets though I bet a hot loaded 110 grain 357 bullet would explode on sheet rock and not penetrate much)

I love the 357 magnum I feel it is one of the most versatile rounds. It is a real do anything round. But if I was in a situation where I had to protect my home I would grab the 223 AR before the 357 magnum lever gun. Now if we are talking about hunting game I think it would be the other way around. I feel both will work for either job but the OP asked what we thought was best.
 
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There's also the issue in a home invasion situation with respect to how many assailants you might be needing to address at one time and how fast you can get off multiple shots. In such a situation, an AR15 is going to prevail. An M4 type AR15 makes for a fairly compact weapon. One might even argue that an AR15 pistol would also be acceptable in a home defense situation where you might be just pointing and shooting instead of aiming through the sights. Of course, a SBR would provide even more flexibility than the AR pistol, but there is that whole (unconstitutional) tax stamp ATF excrement that you have to deal with.
 
I love my 357 lever rifles, 16 and 20 inch versions. Great rifles.

For self-defense, I have a Sig PM400 AR pistol (11 1/2 inch barrel) with the arm-brace thing that works very nicely as something to put up to your shoulder when firing the gun. I can't imagine why anyone who has actually held a PM 400 to their shoulder and fired it would ever choose a lever rifle over the AR pistol for real self defense. For theory, and for BS'ing on the Internet, well, we all love lever rifles. But if it is actually my family and my house that needs defending, I would never look back afterwards and say, "I regret having that AR pistol when I could have gotten by with a lever rifle instead..."

Come on, if you really wind up needing the firearm, do you really want to manually lever each shot into the chamber and run out of ammo after 10-12 shots when you could have something like the AR pistol with a 30 round magazine? Does anyone go into a fight for their lives saying, "I want less ammo capacity and I want a system more dependent on my own ability to carry out motor functions with my hands under extreme life threatening stress?" Be serious.
 
MarkCO said:
Problem solved: http://www.sigsauer.com/SigStore/sb1...brace-552.aspx

Have one on a .300 BO pistol. Works and functions just like a SBR as long as you don't try to strap it to your arm.
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I saw one of those at a gun store once. My impression was that it would cause problems / be inflexible in a home defense situation. Seems like you would limit your firing positions quite a bit.

I've yet to build an AR pistol, but I don't really find that the 5.56 round produces much in the way of noticeable recoil either from my current AR or what I fired when in the military. I've been out quite a few decades, so maybe my memory is a bit faint. I have to wonder if you could just get by with the padded buffer tube being put to your shoulder for stabilization.
 
Depends on your defense scenario. Raging mobs, hordes besieging your house or development, perhaps hostile forces, an AR-15 or other semiauto makes sense. Perhaps at most 4-5 thugs who think they've found an easy mark, a good lever action. Smooth action, easy to handle-you can top off the magazine as you go along, in my Marlin M1894C the .357 feels like a 38 Special out of an S&W N frame.
 
not saying a nice lever action wont do the job 99% of the time, but do tell how it is sub-par to a SBR 223 in HD situations

i disagree that it depends on your defense scenario, which scenario(of 2 legged mammals) does the lever win? and why?

not a hater of levers BTW, i love em, but be realistic; cant see any HD scenario that the lever wins over 223/556 semi-auto

you can talk about plinking, reload costs and how the differences in {EVIL} looks to a jury, but strictly performance terms i cant see the lever gun being on top
 
WilliamDahl,

The foam pads on the buffer tubes really affect recoil control when shouldered. There is a point and it moves the sights around a good bit.

The SIG brace slips over the tube, and depending on the tube, can rotate ro even slip off. I used the ACE tube that has two threaded holes in the buffer tube plate. Put a sling on one side and a short piece of rail on the other so it can not rotate. Then one wrap of hockey stick friction tape on the tube. Solid.

I have literally run drills with SWAT officers using .223 SBRs against my "pistol" and there is really no benefit to the $200 stamp unless you want to go prone.
 
SIGSHR said:
Depends on your defense scenario. Raging mobs, hordes besieging your house or development, perhaps hostile forces, an AR-15 or other semiauto makes sense. Perhaps at most 4-5 thugs who think they've found an easy mark, a good lever action. Smooth action, easy to handle-you can top off the magazine as you go along, in my Marlin M1894C the .357 feels like a 38 Special out of an S&W N frame.
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You forgot "jackbooted government thugs beating down your door because they don't like your religion and want to manufacture an incident so that they can pass an unconstitutional gun law".
 
I wish they would make a semiauto higher capacity 357 magnum carbine. That would be the best of both worlds in my book.
 
I agree! My Coonan is very reliable. The only failures I have ever had where Shotshell Loads. The spring loads the bullet in to the chamber but breaks up the plastic holding the shot and all the shot runs out of the end of the barrel before firing(unless you aim up hill :)

There are rumors of Coonan some day making a carbine but so far they are just rumors.
 
I wish they would make a semiauto higher capacity 357 magnum carbine.
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When you go to semi-auto, especially higher capacity, then you are talking about using an auto-pistol caliber (unless they are priced realy high). There are multiple options in 9mm, .40S&W, 10mm and .45 ACP. The Kriss is great, but out of range for most pricewise. The KT and Hi-points are kind of cheap, then you eventually get back to the AR platform.

I had a nice IMI .357 Mag Timberwolf pump, a a Marlin .41 Mag lever and the advantages of the AR platform were just so evident head to head. I always hankered for a round with less noise and more momentum than the .223. I built a .300 Whisper before the .300 BO craze hit and that really cured any desire for an autopistol round in an AR. I have 2 of them now, a 16" and a 10" and they really are what the doctor ordered and have so much more versatility than people give them credit for.
 
I wish they would make a semiauto higher capacity 357 magnum carbine.
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Higher capacity and rimmed cartridges don't get along very well. The DE and Coonan aren't very high capacity. But a Ruger deerfield in 357 even with just a 10 round mag would be really cool.
Even better would be a cartridge based on a .223 round that was straight walled. That would give you around a .331" diameter projectile by my calculations.
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Or just cut a 223 off at the shoulder and neck it to 30 cal to take advantage of the wide assortmant of 30 caliber bullets and have 357 magnum ballistics in a AR with even better downrange performance with the 30 cal's better BC.
 
mavracer said:
Or just cut a 223 off at the shoulder and neck it to 30 cal to take advantage of the wide assortmant of 30 caliber bullets and have 357 magnum ballistics in a AR with even better downrange performance with the 30 cal's better BC.
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You're describing a 300 Blackout, which is becoming a pretty popular cartridge. It's basically a 30 caliber bullet in a .223 case; in supersonic form it gives you similar ballistics to a 7.62x39mm, and in subsonic form it gives you the close-range ballistics of a .45 ACP with much better down-range ballistics.
 
mavracer said:
Or just cut a 223 off at the shoulder and neck it to 30 cal to take advantage of the wide assortmant of 30 caliber bullets and have 357 magnum ballistics in a AR with even better downrange performance with the 30 cal's better BC.
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I prefer reloading straight walled cases. Plus, the .30 carbine is already .308" in diameter and making a .223 straight walled would give you a slightly larger projectile.
 
Left handed or right handed? When I switch from right hand to left hand with the leveler I don't have a problem. I can't say the same for the AR's.

After the shooting, do you want to be a "Gun shop Commando" (:eek::eek:)with the evil black gun, or the "Old Guy" (:rolleyes::rolleyes:) with a old cowboy gun.

In any case, both guns will do the job, well.
 
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