.357 lever vs .223 semiauto for defense?

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Something else to remember about a .357 carbine... While it won't reach out like the .223, if you go to the range it'll still print 100 yard groups... Will kill varmints just fine at that range, and would still put a hurting on a human if by chance you did need the range.
 
I'll vote for the lever for a few reasons - the ammo is less expensive.....at hallway distances, it is more than adequate enough....if, God forbid, you DID have to use, it IS less "evil-looking" than an AR.....it will also be less sensitive to ammunition variances....less likely to have magazine-related feeding issues as well......you can have a pistol chambered for 38/357 as backup......it is usually cheaper to reload for as well......

I'm sure there are even more reasons.....

good luck with your quest!
 
Another vote for the Lever gun

My Wifes gun of choice is a 16" Barreled 357mag Puma Lever action. She is good with it and it hits hard in a SD situation. I have a Win 94 30-30 as a truck gun. It is my always gun and I can hit with it. As a SD round the 30-30 will do it all.
 
mostly plinkin and double duty HD.1894 Marlin or Puma '92 would work wonders.My parents have a 1894 Marlin I installed a Williams fiber optic front and reciever rear sights.It's light and easy for them to handle.also has that ammo commonality as they both have 357 revolvers for SD.
 
go for the lever .357, you may get a pistol chambered in that later on. it will do the job. a buddy has a Marlin in .357 he loads some hot loads for and I've shot them in it. impressive, it would easy take a deer at short to medium range.
 
What do you guys consider max useable range for the .357 lever gun? 100 yards?
Sorry, I know this thread is real old, but is also intriguing. :)
 
I have shot my .357 lever onto pie plates out to 150. The .223 out to 600.

It is an interesting and old thread.

Several have made a case for the .357 lever gun and a few for the AR platform. Lets tear into it.

Ammo cost: Factory plinkers in .38 special about .40/round. Factory plinkers in .223, about .50/rounds. 1000 reloads, about .13/round for .38 spl and .15/round for .223. SD ammo, about $1 for both.

Energy: 850 ft'lbs for the .357 Mag, 1250 ft'lbs for the .223

Pieces of separated 1/2" drywall penetrated for the same 2 loads: 9 pieces for the .357 mag, 5 for the .223.

Time to fire 15 rounds: 29 seconds for the lever gun, 2.8 seconds for the AR.

My opinion...

The modern AR-15, in decent trim can be bought for about $650, adjusted to fit almost any person of even small stature and deliver 50% more on target energy with less recoil than the .357 lever gun. Is there a reason LE does not carry .357 mag levers, yes, and for the most part, it is the same reason that more and more women are choosing the AR-15 platform. It is the most ergonomic, adaptable, capable platform available.
 
If you can't hit something with a 16" levergun, a semi-auto with more rounds won't help a bit.

If you ever plan on travelling with it to other states that now regulate AR-style rifles, a lever gun would be the ticket here too.

If you are in a situation that you need more than 8 to 11 rounds out of a lever carbine, in all reality, you are in serious trouble, as the Iranian government is attacking. :eek: :rolleyes: ;)

Just whatever you get, do some training with it. Know how to use it, clear jams under stress, etc. Yes, a lever gun can jam- due to user error.

I still vote for the lever. I know of one sheriffs deparment that issues .45-70 lever rifles in all cars. They were using Marlins, but they recently bought some of the new stainless Rossi rifles. I believe for "animal control" mostly. Although I'm certain that they'd get the job done. :D

If a feller wanted a MSR, there is no need to get an M4 profile barrel- it's too heavy to tote, and most of us aren't going to shoot full auto or mount a launcher- get a lightweight barrel, like a LT6720 Colt, and then don't hang half a ton of junk on it.
 
Thanks for your input Mark. I have been bitten by the nostalgia factor of the lever gun, and think it might make a nice companion for either of my revolves in the same caliber.
While I'm at it, I found this video interesting. :)
http://youtu.be/MTC_C4DeNpU
 
I own both types and I say a .357 lever gun like my 94 Trapper is easy to swing, easy to operate(had the action smoothed by a gunsmith - slick!) and packs a helluva punch! At the ranges the OP suggests I'd take the lever any time. I saw at my LGS recently that someone is making a black-on-black lever .357 these days with a rail for a red-dot. About as tactical as you can get with one of those. :)
 
I saw at my LGS recently that someone is making a black-on-black lever .357 these days with a rail for a red-dot. About as tactical as you can get with one of those.
Click to expand...

I went the other direction -- when I finally bought a .223, I got a Ruger Ranch Rifle "GB" 581 with an upgrade walnut stock. I wasn't even looking for a rifle, but I saw this one and it spoke to me :) With a short mag in place, it doesn't really look "tactical" at all... unless you notice the flash suppressor. It starts looking a bit evil with the 30-round mag though, LOL
 
either

I'm a bit partial to the .357 lever, but have a soft spot for the Mini family as well. Cost wise, if you're not a loader, bulk .223 ammo may be cheaper, and more common.

All that aside, I think a handy carbine in either flavor, beats a handgun for ease of shooting in all but certain special circumstances. Similarly most of us shoot long guns better than handguns. And the 12 ga is too much gun for some folks, a kicker and a complicated manual of arms for pumps.

You can't slip a Mini in your coat pocket for a walk to the mail box, true enough. But a snub is not much past 30 feet or so either. Meaning, few can shoot them well past close contact range.
 
I've gone almost eighty years without any need for home defense. So, I'd go for the lever gun in this situation. Far more useful in the sense of self-satisfaction in use.

Granted, I'm not limited in any way as to a selection for home defense. It's an advantage of having been around the world of guns for a long time. :)
 
I guess it comes down to common sense...

Why do you have insurance, carry a gun, wear a helmet, wear a seatbelt, lock your door, wear eye protection at the range?

These are all "Just in case something bad happens" types of preparation. If you have a choice to have a tool that can deliver more energy on target faster, to say "that much protection" is not needed is, well, shortsighted. If you knew what was going to happen, you would just not show up there. :eek:

I am not as "old" as some of you, but I went my first 44 years never having been robbed or stolen from. In the last 2 years, I have had a vehicle broken into, my vacuum breaker for my sprinklers torn off the side of my house in the middle of the night, had someone try to run me off the road and had 2 credit cards numbers stolen due to hacks. I also intervened to prevent a 26 year old man from literally killing his 19 year old girlfriend.

Times change, tools and those concerned with defense should be able to adapt and change as well.
 
I have both.
What MarkCO said above +1

If I'm going to pick up a long gun in a defensive situation,
it's going to be the M4 -- hands down.
 
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I have both an AR-15 and a levergun (Marlin in .45-70). For those who claim that the AR-15 in .223 penetrates too much for home defense, all I can say is that they haven't seen what 405 gr of .45-70 can do. The main advantage that I see with using a levergun though is that it can easily be loaded to very light loads for pests (armadillos, 'possums, squirrels, cats, etc). If you load an AR-15 that light, it will not cycle the action. Now, if there was a way to lock the bolt on the AR-15 so that you could basically make it into a single shot while also being able to fire with an unlocked bolt, then it might give a bit more advantage to the AR-15. I suspect that you could accomplish that with an on/off type valve on the gas tube.
 
i vote for the PLR16 kel-tec(if you can find one), its affordable, short barreled 223, so itll be easily maneuvered in the house, and still keeps a decent velocity for the round, unlike the ar pistols, its eeps it around 2600fps
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/plr-16/pistol/
a 223 krink pistol is another reasonably priced option, but i am unsure of its velocities

also look draco type pistols in 762x39, 8inch barrel puts out 1800fps with a 122gr bullet, plus they are CHEAP and reliable
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/69679

i love lever action rifles, i am buying one this weeend, but i want a longer barrel to get some good power out of my 357s, but for my house which has a small hallway leading from bedroom to 3 diffeerent points of entry, i just dont have the room to swing around a gun with an 18inch barrel

this is the view from my bedroom, the door on the right is the basement, which totally bloccks my door when opened, around the corner on the right is the front door, and where the cats tail is, is the kitchen with a door to the deck
with a long barrled weapon, i would have to expose my self to pretty much every door in the house to get around one of those corners
so i guess it just depends on your living situation, if my room was upstairs, i wouldnt mind the length, but i feel better with a shorter firearm
 
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ID take the 357 magnum carbine but I am Bias. I think the 223 semi auto would do very well in that situation

For the load I use with my Marlin for hunting I load a 158 grain bullet at 2070 FPS. While it is certainly is a hot load for a 357 there are hotter out there. If you are in to stats here is the #s

16.5 inch barrel
158 grain bullet
2070 FPS
358 caliber
Energy 1503 Foot LBS
Momentum 46
TKO 16

It works well on deer I have used it for most of my deer harvest (mule deer here in Idaho) Out to 75 yards shots are easy they get substantially harder at ranges past 100 yards. I would not shoot a deer at much farther than 100 yards with this rifle. The 357 rifle is quieter than a 223 and much quieter than a 357 magnum pistol. Id say the recoil is about the same. Both are very light recoiling.

People that say energy wise the 357 magnum carbine can not compete with a 223 are wrong. At the effective ranges of the carbine id say that the 357 magnum out does the 223. I think you would have a hard time arguing self defence at ranges farther than 100 yards.

Now all that said the 223 carries much more ammo that by its self is a big deal. A normal AR15 mag holds 30 rounds most lever action 357 magnums hold between 7 and 12 depending on the length of the tube.
 
Now, if there was a way to lock the bolt on the AR-15 so that you could basically make it into a single shot while also being able to fire with an unlocked bolt, then it might give a bit more advantage to the AR-15. I suspect that you could accomplish that with an on/off type valve on the gas tube.
Click to expand...

There are gas blocks, shut-off valves on the market that do just that. I shoot 55 grain FMJS at 1000 fps suppressed in "manual mode". A side charger does make this an easier task.
 
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