Last season on a hunting trip my friend had to take a bear in self defense. He had a 1911 as a back up and when he saw the bear he put the 1911 in his lap. Well the bear spotted him and reared up on his back legs and starting growling at my buddy in his tree stand. As he moved to get into better postion the 45 fell to the ground, at this point the bear started toward him. He aimed and took a shot with his 30-06 and struck the bear in the neck from about 15-20yards away. The bear doubled back and crawled off and died about 30 yards from where it was shot. Im not a bear expert, only knew what was stated early to aim for the snout but a neck shot seemed to work in this case.....
.357 for bear
- Thread starter noahlewis
- Start date
I am too old to play games with giant bears. If I thought there was a reasonable chance of dancing with a grizzley in order to catch a few measly *** **** fish, I would say to H*** with it! Otherwise I myself would take along the shotgun with slugs or something, with a sidearm of a large cal. as a last resort. Pumpguns don't cost as much as a NIB .44 mag nowadays. But don't listen to me. Listen to the crazy wildmen that live up there, and see and read about it alot more than we do here east of the Miss. If they say 44 mag, better stick to that. I imagine that the heavy .357 slugs now made by the custom makers could penetrate a bear but will they impart enough stopping power to stop him in time? Like that legendary grizz that was killed after people had disappeared. He was found to be chocked full of the old centerfire BP bullets from stuff like old Win. lever guns. He was a bit hobbled by it but kept his appetite for armed men, apparently. S***w big bears, I will fish around here! 
Bear spray? Hope the wind is not blowing!
Bear spray? Hope the wind is not blowing!freakintoguns
New member
take a friend with you, and make sure your faster then him.
YARDDOG(1)
New member
357 180grn neck shoots will S L O W E M D O W N
JGCOASTIE has some great advice, best I've read here yet. He lives there, so you should follow it.
My point is that in my encounter, the bear was probably smaller than what you would encounter, and I had no weapon. Not even spray. I was fishing alone, bad bad thing, and if I had my BFR since it is SA I doubt in a panic I could get a shot off, much less a shot that was going to count. Al least my .44 is DA. If there is one thing I have learned from my years of firearms training, you will always react how you train, so if you train with a SA you will be fine, if you train with a DA you should carry that and if you train with a Semiauto you should carry that.
I hadn't thought about a 10 mm. That may be a good choice....
JGCOASTIE, What do you think of a .45 with a double stack so you can pump many shots off if needed? Also I like the idea to leave and and live to fight another day.
Mel
My point is that in my encounter, the bear was probably smaller than what you would encounter, and I had no weapon. Not even spray. I was fishing alone, bad bad thing, and if I had my BFR since it is SA I doubt in a panic I could get a shot off, much less a shot that was going to count. Al least my .44 is DA. If there is one thing I have learned from my years of firearms training, you will always react how you train, so if you train with a SA you will be fine, if you train with a DA you should carry that and if you train with a Semiauto you should carry that.
I hadn't thought about a 10 mm. That may be a good choice....
JGCOASTIE, What do you think of a .45 with a double stack so you can pump many shots off if needed? Also I like the idea to leave and and live to fight another day.
Mel
Anchorage Man Kills Charging Brown Bear
www.adn.com/front/story/5591480p-5522882c.html
Pistol-packing hiker kills brown bear in sudden Chugach foothills attack
SELF-DEFENSE: Muldoon man credits reflexes, shooting practice with saving his life.
By DOUG O'HARRA
Anchorage Daily News
Published: September 24, 2004
Last Modified: September 25, 2004 at 01:35 AM
Muldoon resident Gary Boyd was walking his boxer puppy Wednesday afternoon along the popular "tank" trail in the Chugach foothills north of Campbell Creek when he heard something big crashing through the brush behind him.
"I thought it was a moose, but then I saw it was too low for a moose," said Boyd, a former Army helicopter pilot and retired maintenance chief. "I just had time to pull my pistol and spin around."
A massive male brown bear erupted from the forest less than 20 feet away, claws tearing up hard-packed earth as it charged toward the 57-year-old .
The bear, later estimated at 750 pounds, had apparently been guarding the remains of a moose taken in a Fort Richardson bow hunt in the woods about 75 feet off the gravel track used by hikers, bikers and dog walkers.
"I fired the first shot, and I aimed at its shoulders," Boyd said. "When the first shot didn't faze it, I fired the second time, and it turned into the ditch, and I shot three more times, and it went down."
With one shot remaining in his .44-caliber Magnum revolver, Boyd called Anchorage police on his cell phone and walked out a trail to the end of Klutina Street to meet Alaska state trooper Kim Babcock. It was about 12:30 p.m.
Babcock and Boyd returned to the scene and found the bear still alive but unable to move. Babcock finished the animal with a shotgun slug to the heart, while Boyd shot it in the head.
The Alaska Bureau of Wildlife Enforcement trooper said she believed Boyd acted appropriately in defense of his life and was glad he had been armed and had the skill to hit the animal with so little time at such close range.
"He didn't have a choice," Babcock said.
Boyd, who has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years, said he hasn't hunted in about 10 years, but always carries the handgun for protection and has practiced "a quick draw" over the years.
"I feel terrible about having to kill it, but I tell you it was me or him," he said. "I'm glad the instincts and the training paid off."
The incident marked the second time in a few weeks that a bear has been shot along the foothills of the Chugach Mountains by a hiker. On Aug. 25, Tudor Road resident Gabriel Winters killed a black bear sow that he said charged him near the tree line on Near Point.
Through early September, another three brown bears had been shot this summer and fall in Anchorage. Four black bears had also been killed in defense of life and property, and two black bears died in vehicle collisions.
This brown bear had buried the moose carcass under duff. Babcock said she confirmed with military conservation officers that the moose had been harvested and butchered last weekend and reported to authorities.
"It was a legitimate animal," Babcock said.
Military officers who came to the scene told Babcock and Boyd that the area would be posted and closed to further public access. The details could not be confirmed Wednesday evening with Army officials at Fort Richardson's duty office, military police, range control, game wardens or public affairs.
The trail, which extends north from Far North Bicentennial Park through the foothills east of Muldoon neighborhoods, crosses land that Army officials say is off limits to recreation without permission. But residents and others regularly ride bikes, hike, jog and walk dogs along the trail every day.
Boyd said he thought the bear had been reacting at first to his dog, a 22-month-old pup named Katie, as she ran ahead on the trail. Both Babcock and Boyd said they were amazed that someone else hadn't been attacked earlier in the day. It had been a big, mature animal, measuring 81/2 feet, a boar in its prime.
"We hadn't had that bear dead within three minutes when 12 cross-country runners from the high school came by," Babcock said.
"I'm just amazed that he didn't get somebody before me," Boyd added. "I see so many people back here that don't carry a weapon. Someone would have gotten hurt back here or killed."
www.adn.com/front/story/5591480p-5522882c.html
Pistol-packing hiker kills brown bear in sudden Chugach foothills attack
SELF-DEFENSE: Muldoon man credits reflexes, shooting practice with saving his life.
By DOUG O'HARRA
Anchorage Daily News
Published: September 24, 2004
Last Modified: September 25, 2004 at 01:35 AM
Muldoon resident Gary Boyd was walking his boxer puppy Wednesday afternoon along the popular "tank" trail in the Chugach foothills north of Campbell Creek when he heard something big crashing through the brush behind him.
"I thought it was a moose, but then I saw it was too low for a moose," said Boyd, a former Army helicopter pilot and retired maintenance chief. "I just had time to pull my pistol and spin around."
A massive male brown bear erupted from the forest less than 20 feet away, claws tearing up hard-packed earth as it charged toward the 57-year-old .
The bear, later estimated at 750 pounds, had apparently been guarding the remains of a moose taken in a Fort Richardson bow hunt in the woods about 75 feet off the gravel track used by hikers, bikers and dog walkers.
"I fired the first shot, and I aimed at its shoulders," Boyd said. "When the first shot didn't faze it, I fired the second time, and it turned into the ditch, and I shot three more times, and it went down."
With one shot remaining in his .44-caliber Magnum revolver, Boyd called Anchorage police on his cell phone and walked out a trail to the end of Klutina Street to meet Alaska state trooper Kim Babcock. It was about 12:30 p.m.
Babcock and Boyd returned to the scene and found the bear still alive but unable to move. Babcock finished the animal with a shotgun slug to the heart, while Boyd shot it in the head.
The Alaska Bureau of Wildlife Enforcement trooper said she believed Boyd acted appropriately in defense of his life and was glad he had been armed and had the skill to hit the animal with so little time at such close range.
"He didn't have a choice," Babcock said.
Boyd, who has lived in the neighborhood for 30 years, said he hasn't hunted in about 10 years, but always carries the handgun for protection and has practiced "a quick draw" over the years.
"I feel terrible about having to kill it, but I tell you it was me or him," he said. "I'm glad the instincts and the training paid off."
The incident marked the second time in a few weeks that a bear has been shot along the foothills of the Chugach Mountains by a hiker. On Aug. 25, Tudor Road resident Gabriel Winters killed a black bear sow that he said charged him near the tree line on Near Point.
Through early September, another three brown bears had been shot this summer and fall in Anchorage. Four black bears had also been killed in defense of life and property, and two black bears died in vehicle collisions.
This brown bear had buried the moose carcass under duff. Babcock said she confirmed with military conservation officers that the moose had been harvested and butchered last weekend and reported to authorities.
"It was a legitimate animal," Babcock said.
Military officers who came to the scene told Babcock and Boyd that the area would be posted and closed to further public access. The details could not be confirmed Wednesday evening with Army officials at Fort Richardson's duty office, military police, range control, game wardens or public affairs.
The trail, which extends north from Far North Bicentennial Park through the foothills east of Muldoon neighborhoods, crosses land that Army officials say is off limits to recreation without permission. But residents and others regularly ride bikes, hike, jog and walk dogs along the trail every day.
Boyd said he thought the bear had been reacting at first to his dog, a 22-month-old pup named Katie, as she ran ahead on the trail. Both Babcock and Boyd said they were amazed that someone else hadn't been attacked earlier in the day. It had been a big, mature animal, measuring 81/2 feet, a boar in its prime.
"We hadn't had that bear dead within three minutes when 12 cross-country runners from the high school came by," Babcock said.
"I'm just amazed that he didn't get somebody before me," Boyd added. "I see so many people back here that don't carry a weapon. Someone would have gotten hurt back here or killed."
Could be a concern, possible, but as the numbers show has not been a factor:
-ADN article:
www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/381252.html
I don't think a .45 would be very effective against brownies, black bears maybe, but I'd leave it at the house in brown bear country in favor of a higher velocity round with similar weights (i.e. 10mm, 41mag, 44mag, 460, 500).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason the .45 is a great man-stopper is because it throws a heavy bullet at medium velocity = probably not enough to penetrate the thick hide of brown bears and reach vital organs. The 10mm on the other hand is known as a deep penetrating round by any who know it well. It is my opinion that the 10mm is adequate when loaded with hardcast lead such as the round I previously recommened from DoubleTap. It's a deep penetrating round. I put five rounds into a stump about 40-44" in diameter and it blew five grapefriut size holes out the other side. I believe in my 10mm or else I wouldn't trust my life or my wife and children's lives with it.
To the person who suggested that they would stay home instead of fishing in bear country:
Is there a possibility of getting mugged when you go to the movies, mall, store, ball game, etc??? You bet there is... Do you stay home? No, you most likely carry a gun that is adequate to deal with the percieved threat. Most folks I know who CC also carry pepper spray to deal with situations that don't warrant lethal force, I carry bear spray (which has been proven to be effective in somewhere around the 97% mark) to deal with bears, then I've got my 10mm if that's not enough.
Just like you don't put yourself and family in a situation where the danger outweighs the benefit in town, I follow the same principles when in the 'bush'. However, I will not sacrifice my enjoyment of the outdoors just because there's a remote possibility of being attacked by a bear.
22-rimfire
New member
I would pack what you have unless you just want to buy another gun. I know you can have a close encounter, but how often does it happen where a gun shot doesn't spook them away when your hair is standing on end?
I would take my 4" Model 57 (41 mag) with 250 gr solids since I already have the gun. If I were buying a specific gun for the job, I would love to have a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger (if I could find one). The 454 version might be an adequate choice, but I'm not a huge fan of the 454 Casull. I generally want slow heavy cast bullet, biggest diameter I can reasonably find, and a 4" or less revolver. Yes, the 500 S&W would work just fine, but I would not load it with the heaviest bullets available. I'm thinking 400 gr-ish.
I would take my 4" Model 57 (41 mag) with 250 gr solids since I already have the gun. If I were buying a specific gun for the job, I would love to have a Ruger Alaskan in 480 Ruger (if I could find one). The 454 version might be an adequate choice, but I'm not a huge fan of the 454 Casull. I generally want slow heavy cast bullet, biggest diameter I can reasonably find, and a 4" or less revolver. Yes, the 500 S&W would work just fine, but I would not load it with the heaviest bullets available. I'm thinking 400 gr-ish.
My brother and I went to Montana to do some fly fishing several years ago. We were going to camp out and thought we'd better take some firearms in case a grizzly came calling. He had a .44 magnum (Ruger, I think) and all I had was a S&W Model 27 with a 2.5" barrel. I also had some old armor piercing bullets. I took them. One of the local shops told me that pepper spray (large grizzly sized container) would have been a better bet. Failing that, I'd agree that a 12 ga. shotgun with slugs would have been the ticket. Of course it's tough to cast a fly rod with your right hand, hold the fly line with your left hand and keep the shotgun from getting wet by holding it between your legs.
I wouldn't count on the sound of a gunshot
While it may work, it may have the opposite of the intended effect! There have been documented cases, in areas where game is hunted (but bears not so much) of bears learning that a gunshot is a dinner bell!
Easy way for a bear to get a fresh deer or elk is to take it away from the hunter! Some bears have learned this.
Typically, animals react to gunshots in one of three ways. 1) fear (from having been hunted), 2) dinner bell (from having learned how good a fresh kill is) or 3) ignorance (not understanding what the shot is - thunder? from a clear sky?, etc.)
And there is no way of knowing which one of these reactions you are going to get ahead of time.
While it may work, it may have the opposite of the intended effect! There have been documented cases, in areas where game is hunted (but bears not so much) of bears learning that a gunshot is a dinner bell!
Easy way for a bear to get a fresh deer or elk is to take it away from the hunter! Some bears have learned this.
Typically, animals react to gunshots in one of three ways. 1) fear (from having been hunted), 2) dinner bell (from having learned how good a fresh kill is) or 3) ignorance (not understanding what the shot is - thunder? from a clear sky?, etc.)
And there is no way of knowing which one of these reactions you are going to get ahead of time.
Guruatbol,
I'd agree with Jgcoastie that .45 auto isn't an ideal round for bears. It's ballistically similar to .44 special, which isn't much of a penetrator. A mag full of .45's won't do any good if they can't break some bones or drive a hole through the CNS. You need a caliber that's both fast & heavy.
To put caliber & ammo choice in perspective, one of my dad's buddies living in Wrangell tried moose hunting using .44 magnum hollowpoints. 6 shots later, he thought he missed. After his partner shot it and they examined the carcass, they found all 6 rounds embeded in the fat layer beneath the skin. I doubt a brownie is any easier to take down than a moose. Hardcasts and other non-expanding, penetrating ammo would work best.
I do agree strongly that people should carry what they train with; SA users should stick with SA, DA with DA. The only caliber I'd recommend for fans of automatics is 10 mm, assuming we're talking about a full-sized handgun and not a compact.
I'd agree with Jgcoastie that .45 auto isn't an ideal round for bears. It's ballistically similar to .44 special, which isn't much of a penetrator. A mag full of .45's won't do any good if they can't break some bones or drive a hole through the CNS. You need a caliber that's both fast & heavy.
To put caliber & ammo choice in perspective, one of my dad's buddies living in Wrangell tried moose hunting using .44 magnum hollowpoints. 6 shots later, he thought he missed. After his partner shot it and they examined the carcass, they found all 6 rounds embeded in the fat layer beneath the skin. I doubt a brownie is any easier to take down than a moose. Hardcasts and other non-expanding, penetrating ammo would work best.
I do agree strongly that people should carry what they train with; SA users should stick with SA, DA with DA. The only caliber I'd recommend for fans of automatics is 10 mm, assuming we're talking about a full-sized handgun and not a compact.
FabioCrow07770
Moderator
.357 vs bear
people always under estimate the .357 Magnum. loaded with JHP it's more than enough to stop a bear in it's tracks....Bears aren't bullet proof,aim for the face or heart....obviously.
Tony "Fabio"
people always under estimate the .357 Magnum. loaded with JHP it's more than enough to stop a bear in it's tracks....Bears aren't bullet proof,aim for the face or heart....obviously.
Tony "Fabio"
Some of these Kodiaks weigh a THOUSAND POUNDS.
The 357 is made to hunt game weighing no more than say 250 pounds.
Sprinkle some pepper on yourself because you're going to be real tasty when the bear eats you.
A shotgun loaded with slugs you know how to shoot well or a rifle the same way.
Alaska Grizzley's are the true meaning of a MONSTER in every sense of the word.
Handguns are a joke on something that big.
A THOUSAND POUNDS OF -I WANT TO KILL YOU AND THEN EAT YOU-.
The 357 is made to hunt game weighing no more than say 250 pounds.
Sprinkle some pepper on yourself because you're going to be real tasty when the bear eats you.
A shotgun loaded with slugs you know how to shoot well or a rifle the same way.
Alaska Grizzley's are the true meaning of a MONSTER in every sense of the word.
Handguns are a joke on something that big.
A THOUSAND POUNDS OF -I WANT TO KILL YOU AND THEN EAT YOU-.
Last edited:
thanks
Thanks to all for your thoughts !
And to JGC maybe I'll see you at saltry!
I'll be carrying a revolver; whatever it is it'll make me feel better till the bear rips my head off.
The odds are low of attack but it can't hurt to have something. And for me its not hot sauce.
nl
Thanks to all for your thoughts !
And to JGC maybe I'll see you at saltry!
I'll be carrying a revolver; whatever it is it'll make me feel better till the bear rips my head off.
The odds are low of attack but it can't hurt to have something. And for me its not hot sauce.
nl
Anything's better than nothing, bring what you train with as said above. You can pick up one of the powerful bear spray cans at Mack's or Cy's for around $45-$50... Not a bad investment...
Odds of being attacked by a Kodiak Coastal Brown Bear are slim to none, though it has happened... Most often, the attacking bear is a sow with cubs that's already been attacked/harassed by either people or (more likely) a male brownie... That's the dangerous ones, mothers protecting their young... 99.999% of all the males you'll see won't care what you're doing as long as you're not between them and the fish you just caught... If he wants 'em, give 'em to him... There's more in other rivers...
Saltry is one of the top spots for catching red salmon on this island... It's a pain in the *** to get there, but it's great fishing and gorgeous country... There's nothing like watching the sun rise in Saltry Cove after a good 3-5" snow in the winter, summertime is just as great though... Good luck, and when going to Saltry, pack like you're going for a week, even if it's just a day trip... Anything can and has happened up here, Alaska doesn't forgive fools just because they're ignorant... She won't forgive you if you mess up either... Take it to heart, I've been stuck out there in the winter when the pass was swallowed by a snow slide... Be careful!!!
Odds of being attacked by a Kodiak Coastal Brown Bear are slim to none, though it has happened... Most often, the attacking bear is a sow with cubs that's already been attacked/harassed by either people or (more likely) a male brownie... That's the dangerous ones, mothers protecting their young... 99.999% of all the males you'll see won't care what you're doing as long as you're not between them and the fish you just caught... If he wants 'em, give 'em to him... There's more in other rivers...
Saltry is one of the top spots for catching red salmon on this island... It's a pain in the *** to get there, but it's great fishing and gorgeous country... There's nothing like watching the sun rise in Saltry Cove after a good 3-5" snow in the winter, summertime is just as great though... Good luck, and when going to Saltry, pack like you're going for a week, even if it's just a day trip... Anything can and has happened up here, Alaska doesn't forgive fools just because they're ignorant... She won't forgive you if you mess up either... Take it to heart, I've been stuck out there in the winter when the pass was swallowed by a snow slide... Be careful!!!
Wow, I didn't know there was a weight restriction on .357s. I carry 38/44 type loads using 358156 and 358429 bullets and lottsa 2400 in a 3" M-60 for outside protection, cause I'm lazy. The one griz I happened into went one way while I went the other. I agree that a big boom might send a griz on its way, but if I felt threatened I don't think I would bother it. Oh yeah, as to the original question, I'd probably feel better with a bigger heavier bullet, and I wouldn't worry about the front sight, the bear will probably eatcha first.