.327 Federal Club thread

Sporadic availability of reloading components seems to be a recurring theme with this cartridge.

I recently picked up a box of 500 of the Rainier 100 grain FP plated bullets and several hundred pieces of new brass, but everything was completely sold out the next day when I was considering buying more.

It's frustrating and almost, not quite, but almost, enough to make me want to start casting my own. The only bullet I see on the shelf with any reliability is the 85 grain XTP, but I don't want to pay 17 cents per round just for the bullet of my reloads. Sort of defeats the purpose of reloading.

Has anyone tried any of the 120 grain lead bullets from Missouri Bullet Co? They always seem to be available?
 
Seems to me that while there is demand, there isn't (or hasn't been thought to be) enough demand to 'tool up the production line' on the ammo or the components thereof. As long as the ammo is scarce, people won't warm up to the caliber, cutting off the the very demand. It seems to be a 'wicked little circle' until the "ammomeisters" take a chance on a very promising cailber.
 
Good point, warrior poet.

I'd also like to point out that your post just now was your 327th post on this forum. A particularly appropriate number for this thread. ;)
 
The only bullet I see on the shelf with any reliability is the 85 grain XTP, but I don't want to pay 17 cents per round just for the bullet of my reloads. Sort of defeats the purpose of reloading.
Believe me when I say that I hear your frustration and I feel it as well.

However, it's not THAT bad. I'm paying about the same for the 85s and 100gr XTPs... I find them between $14 and $17 per hundred, then I pay sales tax on top of it.

But while it sucks to pay that much, let's not go all crazy and make it sound like it's not still freakishly cheaper than factory .327 Federal Mag. I mean... what's the cheapest you've EVER seen a box of the American Eagle ammo in .327?

I've seen the stuff as cheap as $26 a box of 50. I've also seen it (3 weeks ago!) for $35 a box at a gun store.

Now even when I pay $18 a box of for the slugs...
And if I price one single pound of powder at $24 (and I don't pay that much for powder)
And if I price my primers at $40/1000 like many shops sell them at (I buy in bulk and pay much less)

...then I'm still looking even with those exorbitant component prices at like $13.00 per box of 50.

And because I buy my powder and primers in bulk, I can roll a box of 50 rounds of .327 Federal, with 85gr XTPs pushed by Alliant 2400 and lit off with CCI small rifle primers for $11.50.

So really, I am with you on the silly cost for component bullets, but we simply can't get goofy over the economics even if we are angry and annoyed with the prices we face.

Fact is, this is a hardly-used component bullet size. Like anything, if they don't make and sell a hundred billion of them for the lion's share of their sales, it's simply going to cost more.

And it's a helluva bullet that we are getting. And it needs to be when you consider the pressure we are putting on it.

The prices -- they hurt. But until you can show me a box of American Eagle for well under $15 for 50, please don't tell me that it defeats the purpose of reloading. It's really not even close.
 
I'm with you on the argument, Sevens. Although I feel the XTPs and Gold Dots should be cheaper, I am still willing to pay what dealers are asking. I haven't seen them beyond $16 / box in the last year. Even at $8 worth of bullets per box of reloads, it's a helluva lot better than factory ammo.

As for your question (just to continue supporting my argument of .327 ammo not being any more expensive than .357):
But while it sucks to pay that much, let's not go all crazy and make it sound like it's not still freakishly cheaper than factory .327 Federal Mag. I mean... what's the cheapest you've EVER seen a box of the American Eagle ammo in .327?

I've seen the stuff as cheap as $26 a box of 50. I've also seen it (3 weeks ago!) for $35 a box at a gun store.
Even the over-priced shop I shot the GP100 at had .327 AE 100 gr SPs for $26 / box. In the last month, I've seen it on the shelves of two other shops for $23 / box. Right now, every .327 factory load I can find on the shelves of my local dealers is cheaper than a comparable load in .357 Mag, by $3-5 for 'standard' loads, and $5-20 for SD loads. ;)


Based on the current price of components I am using for an 85 gr XTP (purchased in bulk at $13 / box) on top of 13.5 gr Lil' Gun, I am loading for $9.83 / box. Sixty percent cost savings is nothing to balk at. It may not be the $40 per box savings I can attain with certain "premium" rifle loads, but it sure does beat buying only factory ammo. I can shoot 1,150+ rounds of my reloads for the cost of 500 rounds of factory ammo. ;)
 
I can roll a box of 50 rounds of .327 Federal, with 85gr XTPs pushed by Alliant 2400 and lit off with CCI small rifle primers for $11.50.


I hear you. And agree with your numbers. And agree that $11.50 is well below half the cost of factory ammo. No argument from me there.

Problem is, my son and I fired off nearly 2,000 rounds of home grown 9mm during the month of August. Using Berry's bullets, bulk powder, etc. we made them at a little under $6 a box. Wisely or not, that's the standard I think I should be able to meet loading any of these small diameter .32s as well. They are smaller, weigh less and therefore, at least in my mind, should cost less.

But that's not what I'm finding so far. The box of .32 caliber Rainier plated bullets I bought recently cost far less than XTPs, for sure, but still more than I pay for 9mms. Maybe it's not a fair comparison. I know I'm being petty and that it's not very reasonable to complain about this, given how many factories are ramped up to make 9mm components, economies of scale and all that.

It's just that I've been hoping more companies would get into the .327 Fed bullet making business and drive prices downward. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rush to do so yet. Maybe it's because the .327 is such a high velocity round that cast lead and plated bullets aren't ideally suited for it like they are in the .32 H&R. Maybe I'm simply too impatient, but we're four years into this now and still only three or four overpriced factory loads and very, very little in the way of plinking level components. I know...too impatient. Give it time. But it's Thursday and I probably just need something to grumble about. :o

Montana Gold...are you listening?
 
Hello
Deer season is approaching Fast, so I hand loaded some ammo for my S&W Model 16-4. Hamilton Bowen Modified it from it's .32 H&R Magnum Cartridge Factory form, to it's new Federal .327 Magnum cartridge a couple of years ago. I harvested a large Tennessee Bobcat with it in the Past, but now I want to try it out on Deer. I loaded a Round that has Proven it's accuracy Potential in the past and it shined again for me. This load consists of a Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master Bullet with a Hollow Point design. I used Accurate Arms # 7 Powder dispensed at 10.5 Grains and a CCI-350 Small Pistol Magnum primer with an AOL of 1.500" and heavy crimp. I also Put together a Heavy Target Load using a Rainier 100 Grain Hollow point bullet & Hornady HS-6 Powder dispensed at 7.7 Grains with a Standard Winchester small Pistol primer and medium crimp. I took my Chrony velocity meter with me to the range and set it up to see exactly what these two loads were clocking. The velocity of the 90 Grain Sierra Sports Master bullet's showed to be 1630 F.P.S., while the Rainier bullet Target load showed to be a consitent 1350 F.P.S. The Sierra Bullet load extracted fine and showed to have Moderate medium flatness to the primers. The Rainier Bullet load extracted fine and showed milder primer flatness. Both Load's were shot from a Plastic Pistol Rest as shown at the 25 Yard line and I was Pleased with the accuracy of Both Loads. I feel I could increase the Sierra Load some more with out pressure issues, and will do so my next trip to the Range.The spent Cases showed to be super clean in nature as far as the powder used being the Accurate Arm's # 7 Powder, but the Hodgen HS-6 showed some soot to it's spent cases. I retrieved the slugs shown by the targets they were shot with, and as you would suspect the Sierra 90 Grain Hollow point bullet expanded Very much compared to The Rainier copper flashed hollow point bullets. I will work some more with the Sierra Bullet load to see if increasing it's velocity help's or hurts the accuracy. The Load information I have shown here was from my Past experience of working up the Federal .327 magnum cartridge. Loads of this nature or velocity should be shot from a Heavy frame Gun as my S&W is, for those that would like to work on their own loads I can't express enough caution when working with this round, start at least 15% lower than what I have shown here and pay close attention to high pressure signs as you slowly work up with it. In other word's, I aint Responsible if you Blow up your gun or hurt Your self load this round carefully starting lower and working up to Maximum Level's....




The F-1 Chrony bullet Trap Meter set Up and a Pistol Rest in Position





federal327Magnumre-loadtesting004.jpg





The Six shot Results from the Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master bullet load




federal327Magnumre-loadtesting012.jpg






The spent Cartidges of the Sierra Bullet load showing medium to heavy flatness to the primers




federal327Magnumre-loadtesting010.jpg









Four Sierra 90 Grain Slugs recovered from the Dirt Berm behind the Target stand's. A Special note while looking for these slugs I passed by Many .357 and .45 ACP Bullets in the Dirt. I could only find Four Sierra slugs as I dug 10" in the Berm Dirt for them





federal327Magnumre-loadtesting016.jpg








This Target was also Six shot's at the 25 Yard line using the Rainier 100 Grain Hollow point Bullets. It's accuracy was very close to The Sierra bullet load


federal327Magnumre-loadtesting014.jpg








These are the Rainier Hollow point 100 Grain Bullet's that I found in the Dirt Berm. Note they kept most of their actual weight when recovered compared to The Sierra bullets these seemed to hold up better but did not expand near as much. They too were far past any other slugs I found in the dirt berm being .357 & .45 ACP slugs




federal327Magnumre-loadtesting017.jpg
 
Wisely or not, that's the standard I think I should be able to meet loading any of these small diameter .32s as well. They are smaller, weigh less and therefore, at least in my mind, should cost less.
Sorry, but it's flawed. This is not how mass production works in any industry.

Example: .25 Auto, .32 Auto, .380 Auto.
Which of these is as cheap as factory 9mm auto ammunition?

Afterall, each of them uses less brass to build the cartridge case, right?
Every one of these uses a smaller, lighter slug with less lead and copper, correct?
Certainly, each of them uses less of a powder charge, hmmm?

Why aren't each and every one of those cheaper than a $11 box of 9mm ammo?
It's because of the volume of 9mm that they make -- it's cheaper for every manufacturer to build, package and sell 9mm ammo because they'll sell metric tons of it. Any one of them is lucky to sell even a couple case of .25 Auto in any month.

Ever price a quart of motorcycle oil? It's like $6 or $7 a quart. Is it THAT much better than a quart of Valvoline or Pennzoil? Is it even any different?

Doesn't matter. It's all about scale.

And here, you are using a Berry's plated 9mm bullet as your example which is also flawed. Hey -- I'm a huge fans of Berry's plated. No, really. I use two styles in 9mm, .380, .40 cal, .45, .38 and their slick .30 Carbine bullet -- and YEAH, I even use some of their 71gr slugs in .32!

But you are using the example of a horribly lightly constructed plated bullet that you'd be nuts to use at 45,000 PSI in a full-bore .327 Federal Magnum load.

If you want to be realistic in your comparison, roll 2,000 rounds of 9mm using Hornady's 125 grain XTP bullet and buy them 100 at a time. In a quick search, it seems Hornady's XTP goes for about 90 cents more per hundred than their similar .312" bullet.

The other thing you can do is handload two thousand rounds of .327 Federal Magnum using the .32 cal Berry's 71 grain plated bullet. Your price will be lower than your "under $6 bucks a box" for producing 9mm.

Here's another way I can try to prove the point.

Build a car. Make sure that it's smaller than a Honda Civic. Give it less steel, less glass, less plastic, with a smaller motor, less horsepower, less weight, smaller footprint, smaller tires, smaller seats, smaller fluid capacities and make every single dimension and facet of the car smaller than a Honda Civic.

Make one of them. Hell... make a hundred of them.
Then get back to me with the cost for making them and figure out if you can beat the cost it takes Honda to make them. Take orders for them and show me your MSRP and see if you can under cut the Honda Civic and still make a profit to make it worth your time.

Unless you can make 10 million of them, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you can't pull it off.

There are countless millions of rounds of 9mm cartridges and components rolling off production lines around the clock, right at this moment. And they don't need to "tool up" to make 9mm parts and rounds.

.32 cal? They have to change a multi-use corner of the facility and tool it up to make a short run of the stuff just to produce any of it. As FrankenMauser mentioned about Sierra... sometimes, they just don't even get around to doing it. They are making a killing producing every single .224" rifle bullet they can construct. They have customers falling all over themselves to get more .224" rifle slugs.

So much that they can't seem to find the time to produce a few thousand .312" handgun slugs for the 75 guys in the world who keep shooting... talking about... and loving the .327 Federal Magnum. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale
 
Sevens,

Interesting analysis, but did you even read what I wrote before you responded?

I know I'm being petty and that it's not very reasonable to complain about this, given how many factories are ramped up to make 9mm components, economies of scale and all that.

It's just that I've been hoping more companies would get into the .327 Fed bullet making business and drive prices downward.

Maybe it's because the .327 is such a high velocity round that cast lead and plated bullets aren't ideally suited for it like they are in the .32 H&R.


We're on the same page here. I get it. I'm just not thrilled about it. That's all.

Thanks. ;)
 
I did.
But I'll say again.

There's like 75 of us who love the round. The .327 Federal is probably right near the .41 Magnum in component sales these days. Not bad, the .41 Mag has a 40 year head start. Hey, there's more of us loading and shooting .327 Federal than there are .41 AE, so at least we've got that.

I have also made a few hundred .327 Federal Mag using the BERRY'S 71 grain plated round nose and 4.9 to 5.3 grains of Bullseye. I can make those for around six bucks a box.

That's pretty close to "the standard" you think "I should be able meet."
 
Don't start me on the .41 Mag. I love the round. I traded two pistols and a lever action rifle with my cousin (Mine were .357, his .41 and we have 'semi-permanently' borrowed them off of eachother.) to get a "set" in .41 Magnum. They are my current horseback trio- open carry of pistols and a saddle holster.

For all the .327 fans, I hope it doesn't follow in .41's footsteps. .41 is a great round, accurate (more so IMHO than .44 or .357) and packs a wallop. It suffered from "middle child syndrome" and is very underappreciated. .327 looks great to me. I do not own one... YET. As I have gotten older, I appreciate smaller calibers. Easier to carry, conceal, and therefore often more useful than larger things.
 
Threedogdad, as I read my post again, I see how it comes off as obnoxious -- I apologize for that. :o I did miss where you mentioned economies of scale.

Where I got all turned around and worked up is when you compare 2,000 rounds of 9mm to our grumbles on .327.

Other than being a handgun round that you guys had fun shooting, I can't find the relevance to what we are discussing.

We all in this thread truly are in the same boat here.
Sorry again for coming off as a tool. :p

I've been down the road of bugging the guys at Hornady. I've annoyed the folks at Natchez, Graf's and Wideners and I've bothered the guys at Starline, too. I've gotten small bits of brass from Freedom Arms and a larger lot of once-fired at too high a price from another 'net dealer (who no longer has it.) I've given more grief to Ben Amonette at ATK than the poor guy has earned.

Two and a half years I've been fighting the good fight for the .327 Federal and though it's better now than it was in the spring of '09, I sure don't feel like I'm winning. :(
 
Don't forget about Sierra. ;)
Vice President of Sales and Marketing - Matt Reams. To express your opinion, file complaints, or correspond otherwise, put his first name in front of @sierrabullets.com.
 
JohnSKA said:
Most of my guns have nothing to do with solving any other problem besides turning a "want" into a "have".

And, that's exactly what several of us are trying to do for the .327. Right now, there are still complaints about ammunition availability, and reloaders are wrestling with a few component issues.

But, some of us have taken a very pro-active role in prodding manufacturers to step up production, or give new products a chance on the market.

We don't want .327 Federal to be relegated to "niche cartridge" status. We want the future to be a matter of turning "want" into "have", without having to worry about these issues.

The more people we can get on board now, the better the future will be. ;)
 
The answer to this ? is very simple imo the .357 magnum. That does everything the .327 can and better, its been around longer and there are more firearms chambered for it. The .327 is just unecessary to the main populous of people. It is more of a specialzed cartridge that people either like or dont, again imo. I rather have a 357 in hand any day, but thats just me :). Funny thing is Im not ever a revolver guy. I dont own One, but I do shoot my fathers Model 60 2 1/8 357 Mag. Hes pretty close by so I got to shoot it many times. I am in the process of getting my 1st revolver thought a S&W Model 19 2.5" barrel. Sorry rambled a bit :).
 
The .327 is just unecessary to the main populous of people.

Do people really NEED .380, 9mm, .38 Super, 9x23 Win, 9x25 Dillon, .357 Sig, 40 S&W, 10mm, and .45 Auto?

How about .30-06, 300 Winchester Mag, 300 Short Mag, 300 Ultra Mag, and 300 Weatherby?

Is there really a need for .243 Winchester, 6mm Remmington, 6mm PPC, .240 Weatherby, 6x47 Lapua, and 6mm BR?

.410, 28, 20, 16, 12, and 10 gauge shotguns?

500 S&W, 460 S&W, 480 Ruger, .454 Casull?

I guess could we just standardize to one pistol and one rifle caliber, and one shotgun as well..................and get rid of all the other unnecessary calibers. But where is the fun in that? ;)

Some of those cartridges are "better" than others, depending on who you ask. But everybody like something different, for different reasons.

Need and want are not necessarily the same, and lots of shooters have guns that they may not NEED.........thats how I came to have most of mine :)
 
76 not 75

I have several calibers including 357. This is my favorite to shoot.
If you haven't tried it, you don't get it. That makes sense to me too, the .32 list is very crowded. why add another? :rolleyes:

The first time I saw one, we were shooting 357's and a friend came out with a 327. We were all slowly convinced that the little guy was doing more damage to a stump than the 357. All using factory ammo. NOT scientific but impressive non the less to the 3 there that have long loved their tried and true 357s. My opinion isn't worth but one vote, I am not a writer for a gun magazine but to me, this is one of the first real break thru's in my lifetime. I have heard hype and owned many, many guns but in the end, it was mostly just hype. Here is a wicked little caliber that does significant damage with low recoil. Nothing in my safe quite like it. Why it isn't popular has been discussed to death and probably the economy is mostly to blame. I am not worried about this caliber's survival. Slowly but surely, others with an open mind or out of curiousity will give it a try and, to their amazement, will find out what we too, have learned. I have tried hard not to let my caliber list grow to keep my reserve of ammo from growing too. This was worth adding to the list.


I can't figure out if publicly announcing my love for this caliber is good or bad.
76 up from 75 people that like it won't be the tipping point for manufacturers.
It just means one more to have to share the limited brass. But I will email the above VP if it will stir the pot. :D


FrankenMauser, I took your advise and emailed Matt Reams. It is Saturday and he responded back within a couple hours. A very nice email but don't hold your breath. Basically, 'All our annual pistol caliber sales combined do not equal 2 months of our most popular rifle caliber.

He said they would eventually catch up but no timeline. I would interpret that to mean that they aren't going to invest in labor and equipment in theese current, economic times. With that insight, guess we should be happy to have what we have.
 
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I can't figure out if publicly announcing my love for this caliber is good or bad.
Oh, it's good.
We shall list some reasons:

--misery loves company... if you can't find stuff, at least we can share your grief
--if you handload, I'll be happy when you share your load data and experiences
--if you don't handload, this cartridge might get you there!
--when I get the .327 goodies, I can feel smug because I screwed over 75 other guys, not just 74! :p
--keeps our monster .327 thread alive... where new folks pop-in and add their thoughts
--keeps our hope alive that for the few who log in to a forum and say they are .327 Federal types, there are maybe a few dozen more than don't do the "new fangled internet thing" and there are others out there who like the round
--more fun to hear from a guy who likes the round than some two-bit schmuck that simply regurgitates the all-too-weak "answer to a question that nobody asked" as if, somehow, they were cute enough to author that obnoxious little quip.

KEY: "answer to a question that nobody asked" is actually code for, "I am a douchebag and anything that isn't 9mm or .45 is pointless."
 
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