.327 Federal Club thread

[FrankenMauser]

If you want to make the argument that the bigger diameter bullet is always going to be superior, then I'll take a bigger & heavier bullet at 750 fps from my nightstand companion.

Those Hydra-Shoks are sexy.
I was only referring to that single comparison, for "bigger is better". I try to take things on a case-by-case basis. There is definitely something to be said for projectile diameter, but velocity can work its own magic. And, for SD, everything depends on the bullet. I consider a small bullet that expands properly, to be superior to a large bullet that fails. But, we all have our own opinions.

...Just like the extra round. I understand it's a big deal to some people, and respect that. I'm just indifferent, for my own use. (It comes from my personal philosophy for concealed carry and home defense, which would take far too long to explain.)

These days, there seems to be many MORE thousands of people who feel adequately armed with 85 to 100 grain .380's from pistols smaller than the crap I took this morning.

I was planning on picking up a Sig P238HD as my primary carry, until the 642 fell into my lap (it was also supposed to be a permanent replacement for the Taurus PT-38 I can't get rid of). I'm one of those .380 people. ...But I'm also a skinny guy, that finds it difficult to conceal anything bigger than a compact .380 or J-frame (though some of the newer 9mm compacts are appealing). However, I would consider .327 out of a 2" snubbie to be a definite step up from .380 in the P238.



It seems that we all agree, for the most part:
With currently available ammunition; the wonderful .327 Federal needs a barrel of 3" or better. Anything less, and it's a waste of the cartridge. (Though possibly still an improvement over other options.)
Correct?

 

[Sevens]

I can go with that. Also, I can get on board with the idea of a really small kit gun, something that is taking up the footprint of a .22 caliber revolver, but spitting out .32 cal slugs at a decent clip. NOT for human or predator defense, but for bustin' rocks and clods of dirt. Something small enough to be dropped in a tackle box with the worms.

Even so... I'm guessing that the noise level of a .327 from a 2-inch barrel is pretty nasty.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I'm not sure what happened....

I went to the only store in town that could get the last Taurus 2" from the only distributor claiming to have ONE left.

My wallet got emptied.

 

[FrankenMauser]

....Because the Blackhawk met a long-lost sibling.

It's 5 times the revolver the Taurus would have been.

With nearly every handgun Ruger makes, I find the factory grips to be perfectly comfortable and useful. In this case... I'll be looking for replacements. I just don't like them.

I think the wife will love it. Maybe she'll stop claiming the Blackhawk as her own, if I find some pretty grips for the GP.

Maybe the kit gun will show up in some other form, in the future...


The happy Ruger family:

Left side, top to bottom: 7.5" Super Blackhawk, .44 Mag; 6.5" Blackhawk, .41 Mag; 4" GP100, .357 Mag.
Right side, top to bottom: 5.5" Blackhawk, .327 Fed; 4" GP100, .327 Fed; 3" SP101, .327 Fed.
It'll look even better, when planned additions round out the family: Stainless Bearcat. Stainless Single Six (Single Ten, if they get rid of the horrible sights).
(A few of them belong to another member. )

 

[Sevens]

COOL!
I think the GP-100 is the least loved of all three Ruger .327's.
It's like we never hear of anyone who's got one.

Very slick.

Gotta say I don't care for the grips, either. (but I have odd tastes in grips, it seems... MANY of my guns are adorned with the hottest grips of the 1980s -- the Pachmayr grips. Lotsa people h-a-t-e 'em!)

 

[FrankenMauser]

...Finally put some rounds through the GP100 today.

What a fantastic package. The Blackhawk is great, but I think I like the GP100 even more.

I made it a stainless revolver day at the range, with the GP100, Blackhawk, and S&W 642 (.38 Special). Everything was shot side-by-side.
Both Rugers are easy to control; and muzzle blast and flash are so close I can't tell the difference (even against the wall, at an indoor range). But the 642 sure does let you know it went bang, even with average loads. With the Hornady +P stuff I was shooting in the 642, the SP101 seems comatose with hot .327s (compared side-by-side with Rem 125 gr JHP +Ps in the 642 in the past, but not today). The blast and flash are unreal, for a .38 Special. And they're supposed to be using "low flash" powders...


It wasn't the best day for accuracy testing (bad tremor day, and only 3 hours of sleep), but I was very surprised at the result.

18 yards
5 shots each
American Eagle 100 gr SP
Slow fire (approx 2 sec intervals)
Sitting

The Blackhawk was the baseline:

The GP100 was put up against it:

Yea... exactly the same group size, 1.563". No complaints here.
I could easily call a flyer for each group, but I shot what I shot. There's no point in making excuses.

All the dry firing I've done over the last few days has really paid off. I have a much better feel for the trigger, and it smoothed out tremendously (but was pretty decent, to start with).

The GP was also able to fire .32 S&W without issue. So, that's a nice bonus. I had already written it off as unlikely, due to the DA design.

 

[Billy Shears]

Alright guys,

Got a question for you who have been following this thread. I decided not to start a new thread or poll because those who pay attention to the .327 have mostly congregated here for a very long time.

So, my question to you all is this: What do you think the odds are of Ruger trying to take back some of the business headed to Bowen Classic Arms for conversion work by introducing a Single Six chambered from the factory for the .327?

I wrote to Ruger's CS folks over a week ago to ask this question (before I make the significant investment of having Bowen convert one of the old .32 H&R Magnum Single Sixes for me.) If possible I'd like to save the money and get what I need direct from the factory, but despite their promise to send me an answer within tree business days all they've given me so far is silence.

Now I'm not naive enough to think that Ruger would spill the beans to me about an upcoming release, so I bring the same question to you.

Do you think there is either the market or the will for a factory .327 Single Six? For my part I can't think of anything I'd rather see them make. It would make a near perfect camp gun and I hope they do it, and soon, but I wonder if they ever will.

Opinions?

 

[FrankenMauser]

I don't think they'll do it. I think the pressure level is beyond what Ruger considers a safe threshold for the frame/cylinder. (Just an opinion, I have absolutely zero data to back it up.)

I used to be gung-ho about a Single Six in .327 Federal. ...But I have the Blackhawk and GP100, now. Although I might be able to find a way to squeeze a S&W or the SP101 into the family, I don't think I'd go for the Single Six (without having quite a bit of excess "gun money").

I mention that, because I think quite a few shooters are in the same situation. They scratched the .327 itch (with a Blackhawk, SP101, GP100, or one of the other offerings), and would have to do some work to convince themselves that they can justify the Single-Six as well.

I don't see Ruger offering one. Maybe U.S. Firearms will.

 

[L_Killkenny]

I'm not sure Ruger would do it and frankly, I don't care if they do. I'm a big fan of the .32's and think the .327 will be just fine. But to me the Single Six in .32H&R is almost as good as it gets. A perfect balence between size, weight and power and recoil. It's not a big game or SD gun but it's a fun range toy and a great trail gun just the way it is. You want more power, get the Blackhawk, GP, CA, etc or jump up to the .357. I'll keep my Single Six just the way it is in .32 H&R thank you very much. I don't know what I gain by pushing the Single Six to .327.

LK

 

[gak]

LK, I can't entirely disagree with you. My .32 "Vaqueritos" are some of my very favorite sixguns just they way they are. OTOH, I admit I've ballyhoo'd a long time exhorting Ruger to "do the right thing" with a .327 SS,...I'd probably bite if only to save face ...and I think it'd make (even more of) a humdinger of a trail gun. It just might finally put the .327 over the top in achieving "legitimacy" among the broader gun buying public. I also see more .327-anything as a good thing, if only to help keep the sometimes just smoldering.32 H&R fires burning out there also!

I've been reluctant to send my .32 H&Rs off to Bowenclementshartongallagherland, not only due to cost which admittedly has been primary, but also like you, I think they're pretty near as perfect a blend of handiness, balance, POW and charm just the way they are.

Despite Bowen's (et al) confidence in the .327 conversion and hence the SS frame (which I also have full confidence in), I think Ruger may feel it's touchy enough--in their corporolegal minds--to let the conversion boys be. I think it might be more likely we'd see a special Lipsey's run of six or seven shot .327/.32-20 convertible NVs and Flattops--like USFA did a year or so ago with their regular Single Action--just to give us addicts something new to play with. That too would be sweet. Ya never know though, they finally (finally) came around with the .44 Special.

 

[Billy Shears]

Excellent thoughts, gentlemen. Thank you for sharing them.

I'm intrigued by the idea that the Single Six in .32 H&R Magnum may already be the perfect small game/trail gun and that we should all leave well enough alone. I've certainly had similar thoughts recently, especially when looking at the prices of doing a conversion.

Although, to be "as good as it gets" in a trail gun I think it would definitely have to be shooting reloads, not the Ten-X and Ultramax stuff that's available out there now. I'm just not sure how a 78 grain bullet moving at 650 fps qualifies as a "Magnum" round...but I digress.

What I really wanted to say, or rather ask, is this: Supposing that Ruger is not going to introduce a .327 Single Six, which appears likely, what are the odds of them re-introducing the .32 Single Six? Would they risk doing that if it had a tendency to pull attention, and sales, away from their big marketing campaign of the three current .327 models?

Thanks for your thoughts and your patience.

Oh, and gak, are those wood grips factory? I thought the little "Vaqueritos" all came with the fake ivory. Very nice.

 

[gak]

Threedogdad said:
"Oh, and gak, are those wood grips factory? I thought the little "Vaqueritos" all came with the fake ivory. Very nice."

Thanks Threedog. They're current factory Rosewood laminates for XR3 Red (Old (large) Vaquero, Blackhawk, Single Six)--not on website but on inquiry (NH office) can get.

The Vaqueritos came with a variety of grips. A lot of the XR3 Red-framed guns (like most I've had) were the standard plain Ruger Walnut or Rosewoods--I forget which. A lot of the short-framed (aka short XR3 Red or KXR3?) ones were the faux ivories IIRC. Contrary to popular myth, Ruger built "Vaqueritos" with both the standard and short grips, often sold side-by-side confusing a lot of buyers. It's true, for awhile, the short ones predominated.

Another tidbit: For a long time now, Ruger's also been mis-describing a similar set of silver/black wood (or some such) laminate XR3 Reds on their website that ARE also available for the Single Six (and hence large framed Vaqs and BHs). I haven't looked the past two weeks, when I re-informed them of their ongoing goof,...but they had been describing them as "Single Six only with square triggerguard and 10 inch barrel" or some such. No such factory Single Six exists with that combination, and they acknowledged that. Hopefully they've finally corrected. Nice set of grips anyway.

 

[Sevens]

I had to laugh when you said, "their big marketing campaign of the three current .327 models..."

I think Ruger would be more likely to re-introduce the .32 H&R Single Six than to introduce a .327 Federal Single Six. And I don't think they are likely to do either.

Simply put, bottom line... Ruger has bigger fish to fry. At this point, I truly feel fortunate that they continue to produce the three .327's that they make now. Almost all of these big gun makers are in business to make a killing with huge sales. I believe Ruger thinks that the .327 very much missed the hoped-for target with sales... thanks in large part to the effort of Federal/ATK and the timing for the intro of it. (the Barackolypse did a heap for gun and ammo sales, but it royally hurt the .327 Federal with it's timing)

Ruger is focused on things like the SR9, SR40 and SR-1911. The other stuff gets produced because the machinery is in place for it and it doesn't hurt them to produce and sell it.

To come up with something new... or to re-intro something old... either of which is based on the "outlook" of the .327 Federal Magnum is probably not something that the board of directors would approve at any meeting. There's just not a huge slew of dollar signs attached to the project.

Sorry if my take is pessimistic.

But from what I've heard on here and in person from folks who have worked with Hamilton Bowen (and I gent I met at a local range who knows the man personally), you should not keep losing sleep over whether or not it's worth whatever investment you have considered. In my opinion... any Ruger you send to Bowen is going to come back a HELLUVA lot better than it could ever come out of Ruger.

DO IT.

 

[Sevens]

It wasn't the best day for accuracy testing (bad tremor day, and only 3 hours of sleep), but I was very surprised at the result.

Show off. Eighteen yards, with tremors, off hand, one group with a totally new-to-you handgun, and you shoot inch & a half groups?

Or was this rested shooting?

If you shot it standing, unsupported... most folks can't pull that off.

 

[FrankenMauser]

Show off. Eighteen yards, with tremors, off hand, one group with a totally new-to-you handgun, and you shoot inch & a half groups?

Or was this rested shooting?

If you shot it standing, unsupported... most folks can't pull that off.

Oh, no. It was rested. Standing, off-hand, in their terrible lighting, with tremors, and tired eyes... I would have had issues just hitting paper.

 

[Billy Shears]

Can you detect any appreciable difference in muzzle blast when firing .327 rounds from the 4 inch GP-100 barrel vs. the 5.5 inch Blackhawk barrel?

 

[FrankenMauser]

Can you detect any appreciable difference in muzzle blast when firing .327 rounds from the 4 inch GP-100 barrel vs. the 5.5 inch Blackhawk barrel?

I couldn't detect even the slightest difference in flash (indoor range) or blast (and I was on the last lane, next to a wall). I tested 4 or 5 different reloads (.32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R), and the one factory load: AE 100 gr SP.

I am running low on 85 gr Hydra-Shoks and 115 gr Gold Dots. So, I couldn't bring myself to shoot any just for comparison (even though I took them with ).


As a side note: I was hoping for 25 yard testing. ...But all the lights were shot out, except three at about 7.5-8 yards, 12 yards, and 18-19 yards. Anywhere else, and I could barely see the target. (I won't be going back there, even though I have a free 60 day range pass, with unlimited use. )

I'm trying to get my hands on some of the 85 gr AE stuff, but I want to get it locally. If I can track some down, I'll try another indoor range that I have some range passes for (from the Blackhawk's purchase). With the upcoming cross-country move, I can't find the time to drive to my normal shooting locale (middle of the desert).

 

[Hammer It]

I'm trying to get my hands on some of the 85 gr AE stuff, but I want to get it locally. If I can track some down, I'll try another indoor range

Hello FrankenMauser
I have loaded some more 90 Grain Sierra Sport's Master bullets using 10.5 Grains of Accurate Arms # 7 Powder and a CCI 350 Small Magnum Powder. That was the load I used to Harvest my Large Bob Cat with, and I will set up my Chrony Meter at the range today to clock it. I will Post the results here later on for those Interested in it. The last I Loaded like this produced a Hole hole cluster at the 25 Yard line off my sand bag, I am hoping these will work the same, if my eyes and nerves are steady enough today... Hammer It

 

[gak]

Threedogdad said:
"Although, to be "as good as it gets" in a trail gun I think it would definitely have to be shooting reloads, not the Ten-X and Ultramax stuff that's available out there now. I'm just not sure how a 78 grain bullet moving at 650 fps qualifies as a "Magnum" round..."

Threedog, in the .32 H&R there's also Georgia Arms' very nice 100 gr JHP @ 1100, as well as an also nicely warm 100 gr RNFP--using new brass, averaging mid $20s (between the two) for box of 50 (+ shipping). Only problem--sporadic availability. After a two years hiatus due to component shortages, they were finally able to run some more fairly recently, but last I looked were subject to shortages again. Still, that re-start was a good sign and it's worth a regular check-in with them. Also Buffalo Bore (and someone else--escapes me) just came out with some very stout H&R JHP--but pricier than GA.

EDIT--an online check today shows GA's .32 H&R 100 gr JHP available. The RNFP is what's out due to components. I beleive this is what I must have seen earlier and not the JHP.

 

[FrankenMauser]

I have loaded some more 90 Grain Sierra Sport's Master bullets using 10.5 Grains of Accurate Arms # 7 Powder and a CCI 350 Small Magnum Powder. That was the load I used to Harvest my Large Bob Cat

Good to know.
I can't find the Sierras any where, and cancelled my back order. I really want to try some, but grew tired of the perpetual procrastination. A sampling of the responses to my calls...
Spring 2010: "We hope to run them in the summer, but don't have them scheduled."
Summer 2010: "We'll run them in the Fall."
Fall 2010: "We'll run them in the Spring."
Spring 2011: "We hope to run them in the summer, but don't have them scheduled."
Summer 2011: 'We have no idea when we'll pull our heads out, and get those bullets on the production schedule.'


That single bullet is going to burn me on Sierra products, as a whole, if they don't get some to distributors.
They think it would be a low-return production run. But, if they ran 500,000 bullets... They'd sell out in less than 90 days. (I'd put money on 80% of vendors being sold out in less than 30 days, if they started shipping this Fall or Winter. Make it 45 days, if they ship in the Spring.) If they ran, say, 2 million, it might actually hold them over for a little while, while appeasing the .327 addicts.