.30/30WIN a hard kicker?

J

jimbob86

Moderator
In another thread, someone opined that they would rather shoot their 30-06 all day than a .30/30 levergun, as the recoil was milder with their -06 ......

after much thought, I think I came up with at least 4 reasons for this-

1. They shot hot loads out of a splinter stocked short carbine..... and/or:

2. They shot a gun with a scope on it mounted so high that they can't get a good cheek weld on the gun and maintain a good sight picture ..... they raise their head up to center the crosshair and the gun recoils while their head stays put..... until they run out of neck and their cheek gets yanked down into the stock .... getting buttstroked everytime you pull the trigger is going to convince you that the 30/30 is a beast to shoot....... and/or:

3. They might be Gun Culture 2.0 shooters that haven't fired a whole lot of anything center fire that wasn't gas operated and chambered in an intemediate cartridge, so they don't have a firm grip on the importance of holding onto the gun, pulling it into your shoulder, getting a good cheek weld, etc ...... their frame of reference for what "normal" recoil is is skewed as well ..... I grew up thinking a .270WIN was a supposed to kick less than a 30-06 ..... those cartridges were referred to by folks my grandparents age as "Big Rifles", and anything bigger was labeled an "Elephant Gun" ..... these people were working men (and women!- Granma was a physically powerful woman even into her 60's) .... and/or

4. many of today's shooters ....... indeed, the average American, is much more sedentary than the adults I grew up around: they were more physically fit and tougher than most people today, and thought nothing of grabbing an antler and dragging a deer that outweighed them 1/2 a mile or more to the road. I know hunters today that bring along UTV's to drive to their kill, with a winch to drag it into the bed, and the very mentality that allows this is part of the reason that it would take a truly monster buck to outweigh them ...... but I digress .....

Thoughts?
 
Upon reflection, #3 and #4 would not apply to the guy with the 30-06 .....


.... but what other reasons could cause someone to think that the .30/30 is a hard kicking cartridge?
 
.... but what other reasons could cause someone to think that the .30/30 is a hard kicking cartridge?

Being under the age of ten or thereabouts?
 
NO WAY a 30.06 kicks less than 30-30 unless loaded to 30-30 levels or below. That's just silly. If his lever gun kicks harder than his .30-06 it's likely due to the rifle and buttstock, not the cartridge, as the .30-06 in an identical lever gun would kick significantly harder.


And to answer your question, no 30-30 does not kick hard in general. It has about the same amount of recoil as the 7.62x39 (maybe slightly more if you're loading heavy bullets really hot) and the 7.62x39 is used in full auto weapons. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain about the kick of an AK/SKS/Mini30 type rifle.

30-30 kicks hard compared to .22LR it's a pussycat compared to .308 win .30-06, 300winmag, 300 rum, .338 win mag, 7.62x54R, 7mm Mauser.

The gun makes a difference too. Light guns kick harder, than heavier ones in the same chambering for example. The angle of the stock can also affect felt recoil.

In equal weight rifles, 30-30 will NEVER kick harder than a .30-06 with standard loads. It's essentially the same bullets except .30-06 has significantly more powder which can push equal weight or heavier bullets faster which means more recoil.

It's also perception. My first cartridge was a .270 win in an 8lb rifle. Didn't kick hard when I first shot it at 19 years old. Still doesn't kick hard in my opinion. FWIW I am 5'10'' 130lbs right now, and probably was around 115-120lbs when I was 19. Then there's the people who are scared of .223 rem because of the 'kick' (yeah, I wouldn't call it that :p) and think it's too much to manage.
 
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I've heard some fellows complain they thought their Win 94 recoiled hard also. Never occurred to me to ask what brand of ammo they were using at the time. Having a steel butt plate mounted to a lightweight rifle could be part of the problem too.
 
.... but what other reasons could cause someone to think that the .30/30 is a hard kicking cartridge?

Being under the age of ten or thereabouts?
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Eldest daughter was shooting her 30A (and getting hits on milk jugs full of water @100 yards) before she had the upper body strength to hold it up- shooting sticks are wonderfull for little kids!
 
I've heard some fellows complain they thought their Win 94 recoiled hard also. Never occurred to me to ask what brand of ammo they were using at the time. Having a steel butt plate mounted to a lightweight rifle could be part of the problem too.
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What's a 94 weigh?

Eldest's 30A is nigh 8 lbs.
 
I have several of both and I think a 30-30 is no where near the same as a good old 06. Shoot a 444 Marlin, that would give you some idea of how much a 30-06 would kick in a similar gun. A 444 will get your attention much faster than any 30-30.
 
I never shot my 30-30. I can tell you that when I was a kid and shot my brothers 30-30 it felt like it kicked pretty good. It was a 94.

Now, I can also tell you my 700 in 30-06 kicks like a mule and my BAR 300 win mag kicks very little. It is ported though.

So IMHO it all depends on the weapon. Heck my 44 mag model 94 kicks more than my BAR.

Mel
 
I think its all a matter of perception.

We grew up in the 50's and 60's shooting 03's, K98's, M1's/M14's, etc, and didnt know they were supposed to kick. We didnt know any different or better, and it was what it was, and you were taught how to properly and comfortably shoot them.

We used to shoot them in our tee shirts too, steel butt plates and all, and rarely a bruise the next day.

When youre at the range these days, its not too hard to tell who has learned to shoot on a 5.56 and who was taught to shoot something a little heavier.

How they are holding it, and what happens after they pull the trigger, is usually a dead giveaway. I was going to say "squeeze one off", but after the first round, theres usually very little squeezing going on, at least at the trigger anyway. :D
 
I had a friend who complained his mini 14 kicked so much more than his AR 15's! Poor bugger, shoulda shot my Stevens double barrel 12ga!
 
Shooting a Win 94 in .30-30 from the bench is very different from shooting a 1903 Springfield in .30-06 off hand in the field, felt recoil perception-wise. :cool:

All things being equal, the rifle shooting a 7.62x63 (.30-06) will have more oomph than the same rifle shooting a 7.62x51r (.30-30) which kinda stands to reason if Newton was correct. I think he was. ;)
 
I would have to assume that the 30-30 has a steel butt plate, and the 30-06 has a thick soft recoil pad.:) otherwise that entire statement make no sense whatsoever.
 
the above post is what I propose as well... I sense a considerable recoil as compared to its closest ballistic cousin in my corral.. the 7.62x39..although semi auto...is partly the diff.
 
i haven't shot my 30-30 since I was about 22 (8 years ago), and at the time, I remember thinking "that kicked harder than I expect!". I remember thinking it was simliar to my 30-06 in recoil.

I think #2 is probably one reasonable explanation as to why I felt that way. I'm learned a lot since then about sight picture, etc, and plan to go shoot the thing when I get back. I need to replace the scope and rings and try again.
 
I was shooting with a friend who has a 30/30 marlin lever gun and he is a big guy, 6' and 230 lbs. He complains about the recoil of that gun all day long but I give him my bolt 7-08 with nearly max loads and he doesnt have a problem. Personally I think its all in the stock design and lack of a recoil pad. JMHO>
 
Stock fit.
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This.

A 30-06 recoils more, but is more comfortable to shoot than most 30-30's. My 7.5 lb, all up 30-06 has a stock with a straight comb and one of the high tech recoil pads. It generates a bit over 20 ft lbs of recoil, but it is coming straight back into the pad. Compare that to all lever action 30-30's with their crooked stocks which develop recoil that causes the muzzle to flip up striking the cheek with the comb. Most are lighter than a 30-06 and have a hard plastic or steel butt plate which makes the 10-12 ft lbs of recoil feel much worse than it really is.

My rifles have lightweight McMillan stocks and even lighter PT&G bottom metal to reduce weight even less. Most standard 30-06 rifles are going to weigh 8.5-9.5 lbs with scopes and generate around 15-16 ft lbs of recoil. For most folks shooting heavier 30-06 rifles with modern well designed stocks the actual recoil just isn't that much. The much better stock design more than cancels out the small difference in real recoil.

With my lighter rifles I can feel more recoil, but with heavier rifles the difference is very small and hard to notice. Either way, because of the direction of the recoil I find a 30-06 to be more comfortable to shoot.
 
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