30-06 vs 308 question

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What I was looking at was that I have been shooting 308's and 30-06 all my life and I have no bias against one or the other. My grand father and my father were target shooters, I am not. I have all of the equipment to make top notch reloads for the 30-06 so that is what I shoot.

My Savage 30-06 shoots better than I can see with a 3X9 scope with my loads which are pushing 165 Noslers at 2705 FPS (average) and shoots sub MOA all day.

Maybe theoretically a 308 is more accurate than a 30-06, cool, from a multi thousand dollar custom rifle with a multi thousand dollar optic. For practical applications I don't see the logic, but I am a simple man.
 
They're both great! How cool is it to have so much choice? Pretty much comes down to long vs. short action to me and I own, shoot and like both equally well.
 
I said that I didn't honestly understand how a .308 could be more accurate than the 30-06 and the response was pound for pound a shorter action is stiffer. What does the weight have to do with it, I thought we were talking length?
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The phrase "pound for pound" is simply an idiomatic phrase that means two things are being compared equally, even if they are not equal. Despite it's use of weight measurement terminology as a reference point, the phrase has little, or in this case, nothing, to do with an actual weight comparison.
 
The phrase "pound for pound" is simply an idiomatic phrase that means two things are being compared equally, even if they are not equal.
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I guess I can see that but you mid westerners shore do talk funny. :) Seriously, I still don't see and have no reason to believe that an action that is bolted down solidly to the stock will have enough flex, or enough difference in the amount of flex between a short and long action to affect accuracy to any noticeable degree. Especially if the actions are pillared and glass bedded as they should be if your main goal is to shoot groups at a target.
 
Slappy, I couldn't agree with you more, to tell the truth. The difference between the two cartridges is so minute for purposes of regular usage (hunting, varminting, having some fun with jugs full of water...) that it really is six of one, half a dozen of the other. Getting a rifle that fits comfortably to your body and shoots well for you is far more important for good shooting.
 
slappy, the difference will only really show up in either benchrest competition or in long-range competition insofar as importance: Stiffer is better when you're looking for those last few hundredths of an inch. So, a shorter action is a wee tad stiffer. Same for heavy barrels in competition rifles. If all you want is a half-MOA cloverleaf, it doesn't matter.
 
What would Alaskans say?

Supposing you were subsisting in the backwoods of Alaska, being a thrifty minimalist. Maybe you have a .22 and a 12 gauge. You have one centerfire rifle. You don't have time or space or inclination for an arsenal because your all about trapping, fishing, prospecting, cultivating a small garden for what few things you can grow there, getting your wood in before summer runs out, and getting your meat put up when cooler weather prevents spoilage but before winter sets in and then back to trapping, ....... Your meat runs large, some of it maybe dangerous. Nearest village for supplies is perhaps 15 miles away and a real town perhaps 100, if you have a float-plane ride. Now, all nonsense aside, just between the two, which is better, 308 Winchester, or 30-'06?
 
Pathfinder45 said:
Now, all nonsense aside, just between the two, which is better, 308 Winchester, or 30-'06?
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For hunting there isn't any difference that I can tell. With the way bullet technology is today, the various 180 grain .30 caliber bullets are all capable of being used, with good results, on any animal the .308/.30-06 is capable of taking. As someone in this thread noted, the 130 grain Barnes is probably capable of killing anything in the .30 caliber range nowadays.

As far as heavy .30 caliber bullets go, I personally don't see how a 220 grain bullet @ 2350 fps out of a .30-06, would be any more effective than a 200 grain bullet @ 2350 fps out of a .308.

For me, the biggest thing I like/prefer about the .308 is it being able to be used in short actions. Other than that I wouldn't turn my hand for the difference, as far as hunting is concerned.

PS: If I was in your Alaskan scenario I'd want a .375 H&H, or a .416 Wea, but thats just me and for another thread. :)
 
^^^ What .308 Win rifle is going to stabilize 200gr bullets? Most probably won't even stabilize 180gr projectiles. Yes, I know some will stabilize 180gr but most are only fully capable up to 165gr. On the other hand, '06 was designed (as the '03) to stabilize 220gr bullets.
 
The 308Win/7.62NATO (M118) M-14 Match (and sniper) rounds are 175gr Sierras -- and they stabilize just fine, thankyou. ;)

Both 308 & 30-06 generally come w/ the same 1:10 twist and will stabilize the same heavy bullets if velocities aren't too low/far apart.

The real difference is that w/ a 24" barrel & 58,000psi I can theoretically push that 175SMK to 2,750 out of the 308Win (using N550); while I can get 2,850(+) out of the 30-06. (I've actually pushed 180's to 2,840 using N560)

The 308 will shoot/stabilize 220's --and reach the low 2,400's** -- but the 30-06's bigger case really comes into its own at that point and gets 200fps more.


** Some reach the low 2,500's. See here:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2043155
 
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^^^ I humbly disagree. The typical .308 Win rifle will NOT reliably stabilize 220gr bullets. Most .308 rifles have a 1:12 twist and this simply does not work most of the time. In fact it's REALLY pushing it with 180gr and will likely tumble. This is why I stated that 165gr is the max for the average .308 Win. Heck, the typical .30-06 twist of 1:10 is somewhat pushing stabilization of 220gr bullets at approximately 150fps faster velocity.

ETA... Add a custom barrel to a .308 Win (1:10, 1:9, 1:8 twist) and things begin to become more equal.
 
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HKGuns... your rifle isn't the "typical" .308 Win and, even so, will "just barely" stabilize a 180gr bullet reliably. My argument is with the poster just above mine... umm... above.
 
Please note the following extract from my range book:

331zlsp.jpg

(Iron sights and 65-year old eyes, guys) ;)

Note also these twist rates
Code: 
308 Winchester - 1 in 10" : Colt; J.C. Higgins 51-L; Mannlicher Schoenauer;
                              Marlin 455; Musketeer; Remington 722, 740,
                              742, 760, 700, 40-XB, 788, 660, 600, 7400,
                              7600, Four, Six, Seven; Schultz & Larsen;
                              Ruger 77; Wichita. Savage 99, 110, 112, 116
                              (present); Weatherby Vanguard; Steyr SSG-PIV;
                              Thompson/Center Rifle

308 Winchester - 1 in 12" :  Browning 81 BLR, BAR Mark II, A-Bolt II; Colt;
                               FN; High Standard; J.C. Higgins 50, 51, 51-L;
                               Harrington & Richardson 300, 308; Husqvarna;
                               Mossberg 800; Savage 99, 100, 110, 2400;
                               Sako Bolt Action and Lever Action; Winchester
                               70, 88, 670, 770; Steyr SSG-PI, PII, PIII;
                               Stevens 110; 100, Remington 700, 40-XC.;
                            **Springfield Armory M1A**
http://www.tiropratico.com/pdf/passi_canne.pdf

Bottom line: you can get it in whatever you want, to shoot whatever you want. And as the Rangebook shows -- it's very versatile regardless of twist and or reasonable velocities.

** Mine has a 1:11 twist
 
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1:10 isn't a custom .308 twist, many makers use the 1:10. Also, there is nothing set in stone that says a .308 with a 1:12 twist won't stabilize 200 grain bullets. You never know till you try each individual barrel.
 
^^^ It's a matter of "commonality". Most .308 Win are 1:12 twist. Other twist rates are available... I already conceded that... just as other twist rates are available for .30-06. Is this really so difficult to understand? Do you really want to custom-order a barrel for "rifle-X" when an off-the-shelf rifle already has the twist rate you need? How much money do you want to spend? Me? I'm a cheap SOB so I'll buy an average .30-06 with 1:10 twist rifling so I can accurately shoot anything from 110gr BT to 220gr SP.
 
Your claim that the .308 Winchester won't stabilize 190-200 grain bullets, is at odds with common knowledge saying it can and will. So I don't see the point in debating it.
 
mehavey... Thank you but that's just one example. Show me 20 random samples and I may concede.

nate45... Common knowledge? Please prove that.
 
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