In Maine the 30'06 is among the favorites for deer rifles. The 308 is considered the ideal New England hunting rifle. The 30'06 does provide a slight edge in ballistics but for around my area, the game we hunt, it's a matter of personal preference. With bullet technology we see people taking down Elk with a 243 and Moose with a 7mm-08. The 308 is a nice short action cartridge.
30-06 vs 308 question
- Thread starter chris in va
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Pound for pound. No I didn't miss that, I just don't know what that means, you go on to talk about shorter barrels so in my mind you are comparing apples to oranges.
As for recoil being a factor, if you are shooting the same weight of gun, same weight of bullet and it is leaving the barrel at the same velocity then why would there be any difference in recoil.
Nate, the article you linked to is interesting and it may even be absolutely correct but, I don't really see any scientific data or any thing else to explain why you could take a 30-06 case, shorten it by 1/2" and make it 60% more accurate. Were the results in the article all shot in identical rifles? Is it that the cartridge is more accurate or the rifles they were being shot from. All the article really gives is one mans observations. Not saying they are not correct but it does nothing to explain the reasons for it being a fact, if it is a fact. All of this is really off the point anyway, what I said in the beginning is that the 30-06 will do everything a .308 will do and due to the availability of some heavier bullet weights it will do a little more in a hunting situation. That really has nothing to do with people at the range shooting in long range matches.
As for recoil being a factor, if you are shooting the same weight of gun, same weight of bullet and it is leaving the barrel at the same velocity then why would there be any difference in recoil.
Nate, the article you linked to is interesting and it may even be absolutely correct but, I don't really see any scientific data or any thing else to explain why you could take a 30-06 case, shorten it by 1/2" and make it 60% more accurate. Were the results in the article all shot in identical rifles? Is it that the cartridge is more accurate or the rifles they were being shot from. All the article really gives is one mans observations. Not saying they are not correct but it does nothing to explain the reasons for it being a fact, if it is a fact. All of this is really off the point anyway, what I said in the beginning is that the 30-06 will do everything a .308 will do and due to the availability of some heavier bullet weights it will do a little more in a hunting situation. That really has nothing to do with people at the range shooting in long range matches.
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Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.
Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.
Did you really read the article slappy? Or just glance at it? Those aren't one mans opinions, they are facts that can be independently verified.
Its the .308 cartridge thats more accurate than the .30-06, if you put them in the same type rifles the .308 wins the accuracy contest..
Along came the 7.62mm NATO and its commercial version; the .308 Winchester. In the best rifles, 200 yard groups were about 3/4ths inch, at 300 about 1-1/2 inch. At 600 yards, groups were about 2-1/2 inch and at 1000 about 7 to 8 inches. It was not very long before the .30-06 round no longer won matches nor set any records; all it's records were broken by the .308 by a considerable margin. Some accuracy tests at 600 yards with the .308 produced test groups in the 1 to 2 inch range. These were 20 to 40 shot groups. No .30-06 has ever come close to shooting that well.
Accuracy Facts
.308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield
.308 Winchester versus .30-06 Springfield
Did you really read the article slappy? Or just glance at it? Those aren't one mans opinions, they are facts that can be independently verified.
Its the .308 cartridge thats more accurate than the .30-06, if you put them in the same type rifles the .308 wins the accuracy contest..
Again, you miss my point. This is just one man saying what he believes to be true. There are no supporting documents, no scientific explanations, just his opinions or his observations. Never mind it really isn't important anyway, you believe what you want and until I see a logical reason to think otherwise, I'll do the same.
Yes, I read the article, you say they are facts that can be independently verified, I say verify them then.
Again, I never said the .308 wasn't more accurate than the 06, I just said I don't see how it could be and you giving me some guys opinion doesn't help me understand it at all.
Yes, I read the article, you say they are facts that can be independently verified, I say verify them then.
They feel this is the reason? For one thing, the case is not shorter and fatter, just shorter.
Again, I never said the .308 wasn't more accurate than the 06, I just said I don't see how it could be and you giving me some guys opinion doesn't help me understand it at all.
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First off, the .308 Winchester is 'fatter' than the .30-06. The .308 has a shoulder diameter of .4539 inches and the .30-06 has a shoulder diameter of .441 inches.
Second, the way the article can be verified is from the NRA Hi-Power match rules and records.
At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.
Second, the way the article can be verified is from the NRA Hi-Power match rules and records.
At 1000 yards, where both the .30-06 and .308 were allowed in Palma matches, the .308 was the clear-cut most accurate of the two. If top shooters felt the .30-06 was a more accurate round, they would have used it - they didn't. In fact by the early 1970s, the scoring ring dimensions on the 800 - 1000 yard target were also cut in about half due to the accuracy of both the .308 Win. over the .30-06 and the .30-.338 over the .300 H&H when used in long range matches.
I not sure anyone knows exactly why the .308 Winchester is a more accurate cartridge than the .30-06, but the group sizes and match records show that it is.
The explantion that...
Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.
...is cited in the article is as good as any.
Also if you study the new short magnums and their accuracy capabilities versus their long action counterparts, it lends credence to the 'shorter, fatter case' theory.
I fully agree that in practical hunting applications the .308's accuracy advantage doesn't really come into play. However, that doesn't invalidate the .308's competition target shooting advantages.
The explantion that...
Most top highpower shooters feel the main reason the .308 is much more accurate than the .30-06 is its shorter, fatter case promotes more uniform and gentle push on the bullet due to a higher loading density (less air space) and a more easily uniformly ignitable powder charge.
...is cited in the article is as good as any.
Also if you study the new short magnums and their accuracy capabilities versus their long action counterparts, it lends credence to the 'shorter, fatter case' theory.
I fully agree that in practical hunting applications the .308's accuracy advantage doesn't really come into play. However, that doesn't invalidate the .308's competition target shooting advantages.
2840fps in `06 w/ 180gr bullets (from Nov`10)
Sunny, 50degr, slight 10mph breeze
Rifle: Model 70 (new model)
Barrel: Medium/24"
Bullet: 180SMK
Case: WW (1st fire)
Primer CCI-BR2
OAL: 3.28" (10 thousandths off the lands by Stoney Point measurement)
Powder: Vihtavuori N560 (very useful w/ Hvy bullets in the 300Win)
`Ran QuickLoad calculations to find the best probable combo for highest velocity/least pressure (< 58,000) with both the SST and the SMK.
Nosler said it could be done with relative ease. The only question was "...who do you trust? "
Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, and Speer manuals are all over the place.... `Back to QuickLoad so I could at least see what's happening as things ramped up. While RL22, IMR-7878SSC, H4350, all played to some varying degrees & compressions, QuickLoad said N560 had the edge.
‘Worked it up from a predicted 51,000psi load to that just over 58,000 -- and watching the velocities with the Oehler, a Starrett micrometer for the web/rim,
We get...
"Actual" is in blue, and is limited to three rounds as I figured I'd bump up against velocities and/or rim expansion/bolt lift that told me pressure was exceeding brass limits
`Never happened.
Sunny, 50degr, slight 10mph breeze
Rifle: Model 70 (new model)
Barrel: Medium/24"
Bullet: 180SMK
Case: WW (1st fire)
Primer CCI-BR2
OAL: 3.28" (10 thousandths off the lands by Stoney Point measurement)
Powder: Vihtavuori N560 (very useful w/ Hvy bullets in the 300Win)
`Ran QuickLoad calculations to find the best probable combo for highest velocity/least pressure (< 58,000) with both the SST and the SMK.
Nosler said it could be done with relative ease. The only question was "...who do you trust? "
Sierra, Lyman, Hornady, Hodgdon, and Speer manuals are all over the place.... `Back to QuickLoad so I could at least see what's happening as things ramped up. While RL22, IMR-7878SSC, H4350, all played to some varying degrees & compressions, QuickLoad said N560 had the edge.
‘Worked it up from a predicted 51,000psi load to that just over 58,000 -- and watching the velocities with the Oehler, a Starrett micrometer for the web/rim,
We get...
"Actual" is in blue, and is limited to three rounds as I figured I'd bump up against velocities and/or rim expansion/bolt lift that told me pressure was exceeding brass limits
`Never happened.
Max velocity/bullet weight notwithstanding (and you probably have to be a handloader to really get the 30-06 to perform up to its potential), the 308 is a much more efficient cartridge. That means less powder, less weight, better burn consistency and lower variations in velocity for the same performance with the same bullet.
But the `06 is still king if you can tailor your loads to modern actions.
But the `06 is still king if you can tailor your loads to modern actions.
Back to the OP
+1 to Skans (Post #23). I made the decision to go '06 for the reasons others have already posted.
I can get factory ammo, anywhere, at a good price.
I can hand load it, picking up free brass at every range trip, and the choice for bullets is astronomical. Did I mention its super easy to reload?
I can up/down load it to get exactly what I'm looking for - as one poster said, prairie dogs to elk - from one rifle.
For me, the fact that I can have such a vast range of loadings from one rifle (well, OK, since when has 1 rifle ever been enough - I've got 3 and counting) was the clincher. I love going to the range and being able to go from a round that goes "pop" to one that goes "boom."
This is not to say I won’t get a .308 someday. And when I do, it will be for the match accuracy. I’ll probably start with an M1A, then a Remmy 700 tricked out to the SWS – no wait, they’re going to .300 Win. Might have to change that idea…..
+1 to Skans (Post #23). I made the decision to go '06 for the reasons others have already posted.
I can get factory ammo, anywhere, at a good price.
I can hand load it, picking up free brass at every range trip, and the choice for bullets is astronomical. Did I mention its super easy to reload?
I can up/down load it to get exactly what I'm looking for - as one poster said, prairie dogs to elk - from one rifle.
For me, the fact that I can have such a vast range of loadings from one rifle (well, OK, since when has 1 rifle ever been enough - I've got 3 and counting) was the clincher. I love going to the range and being able to go from a round that goes "pop" to one that goes "boom."
This is not to say I won’t get a .308 someday. And when I do, it will be for the match accuracy. I’ll probably start with an M1A, then a Remmy 700 tricked out to the SWS – no wait, they’re going to .300 Win. Might have to change that idea…..
Bamashooter
New member
I handload 30-06 and I can promise you that I can outshoot a .308. No problem. Saying a .308 is inherently more accurate than a 30-06 is stupid. Bring a .308 down here and we will see. I can shoot sub moa all day long with my 155gr. handloads.
warbirdlover
New member
Well the .308 comes in "short actions" which don't bend and flex and gyrate as much.... Just BS'ing!! I can't see why one would be more accurate then the other. I believe the records have been set by the .308 because everyone has GONE to the .308. Records are always being broken due to probably better powders and barrels etc etc. I'd prefer a 30-06 just because of cartridge doing a better job with heavier bullets. 
Have you ever noticed when reading the gun magazines how many cartridges have been compared to the 30 06 ?
Its kind of like the basic American Big Game Cartridge.
Should be included in every young hunters starter kit.
I do hunt with a .308 though, but own a classic World War Two 30 06 and treat it with respect.
Its kind of like the basic American Big Game Cartridge.
Should be included in every young hunters starter kit.
I do hunt with a .308 though, but own a classic World War Two 30 06 and treat it with respect.
The .308 is inherently more accurate than the 30/06 but I doubt most hunters are going to notice the difference between a 0.6 and 0.8 rifle and in most cases the primary differences in production rifle accuracy is not the caliber. Ive seen .375 H&H that were sub-minute of angle.
I hunt with both, I don't target shoot except for zeroing purposes. My 308, like alot of them on the market, is a short, light barrel and I get excellant short to midrange performance. My 30-06's are longer barreled and as I believe Jeff Cooper said " If it can't be done with a 30-06 it probably can't be done". I think this is where the big percieved difference comes from. If you get a 308 with a, say, 24" barrel it is very comparable to the '06 but most rifles on the market tend to chamber the 308 in Carbine like rifles which detracts from the rounds potential.
If I had to choose between the two I would certainly go with the '06 as it is more versatile & powerful. But I still love my Model 7 for woods ranges.
If I had to choose between the two I would certainly go with the '06 as it is more versatile & powerful. But I still love my Model 7 for woods ranges.
Cascade1911
New member
Is it.....Really..... Why?
Me, don't have a dog in the fight (got a .270 to my dad's chagrin).....
in·her·ent /ɪnˈhɪərənt, -ˈhɛr-/ Show Spelled
adjective
1.
existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers.
2.
Grammar . standing before a noun.
So basically if you say a .308 is inherently more accurate than a 30-06, since it is an inseparable element quality or attribute of the .308 to be more accurate, I could theoretically take the cheapest POS .308 and it would still be more accurate than a custom built top of the line 30-06.
See this is why I hate those kind of generalizations, because they are generally not accurate statements.
adjective
1.
existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: an inherent distrust of strangers.
2.
Grammar . standing before a noun.
So basically if you say a .308 is inherently more accurate than a 30-06, since it is an inseparable element quality or attribute of the .308 to be more accurate, I could theoretically take the cheapest POS .308 and it would still be more accurate than a custom built top of the line 30-06.
See this is why I hate those kind of generalizations, because they are generally not accurate statements.
checkmyswag
New member
Both are good practice and good aim are better.
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