30-06 vs .308 for mid to long range?

A 100 fps difference in 30 caliber bullets makes a 2/10" drop change at 100 yards and a 40" one at 1000.

MIL SPEC data shows about 90 fps slower bullets for the 7.62 cartridge compared to the 30 caliber one, both spec'd at 50,000 cup

I do not believe a .30-06 will put 20 successive shots in 20 minutes inside 1/2 moa at 800 yards. Any rifle will put 3 shots in 1/2 moa at 800 once in a great while
 
MIL SPEC data shows about 90 fps slower bullets for the 7.62 cartridge compared to the 30 caliber one, both spec'd at 50,000 cup
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While I cannot personally vouch for the accuracy of the information, Cartridges of the World has listed this since the 1970s:

7.62mm NATO, Ball, M80
Velocity: 2750 +/- 30fps at 78 feet
Pressure: 50,000psi max avg
Bullet: 149-3 grs.

Caliber .30, Ball, M2
Velocity: 2740 +/- 30fps at 78 feet
Pressure: 50,000psi max avg
Bullet: 152 -3 grs.

To me, that's close enough not to matter in any practical way.
( if different sources show different data, is the difference enough to matter?)
 
It's gonna take a very good shot and a good rifle/barrel to truely appreciate the accuracy difference. This isn't going to be apparent in typical big box store hunting rifle/scope combos. For those rifles most shooters won't even shoot enough to get an idea which was more accurate.
As to the brass tacks competative differences guns and ammo have evolved a lot ~50 years ago it took a 300 Win Mag to the avaliable bullets fast enough with the avaliable powders to reach 1000 yards accuratly. Heck now they're doing it with 5.56.
The only places 308 is still king is where 308 is the only thing allowed anymore, 6.5s have taken over. The 308 and 30-06 are both still very capable rounds and the technology avaliable has increased this capability as much as everything else. Sleek new bullets and better powders have given even more range than anyone would have believed years ago.

Nosler's new 190gr accu bond long range should easily be able to be pushed 2750-2800 from a 26" barrelled modern bolt 06 with it's .640 BC this keeps it supersonic to ~1500.
 
Try some 240 grainers in .308 and .30-06 the difference will become pretty apparent.

Also most factory ammo in .30-06 is loaded to SAAMI specs. 60K PSI. The SAAMI standard was set based on older, weaker guns. Meaning, if you're careful, and smart, and use a strong enough firearm and good brass, you could potentially load the .30-06 up to 65,000PSI safely, which would just make the 06' further surpass the .308 win.
 
There are people who shot 240's from. 308's producing better accuracy at long range than any .30-06 load did. I've watched them do it. Both cartridges' chambers need long throats in 1:8 twist barrels to shoot 240's accurately.

Flat trajectories don't make better accuracy. Repeatable trajectories do.

Given equal conditions and accuracy levels of rifle and ammo, the 308 will shoot better scores from prone among all 30 calibers.

Best accuracy from 308 Win's and 30 caliber magnums at long ranges has stayed the same and equal since the 1960's.
 
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Bart you had ideal condition when you shot that small group @ 800yd also front rest/scope so really how accurate is 308.

Couple guys shooting 308 IBS 1000yds back east don't think they won anything yet so nothing magical about 308.
 
Given equal conditions and accuracy levels of rifle and ammo, the 308 will shoot better scores from prone among all 30 calibers.
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Alrighty then the conditions are 1760 yards bring your 308.
Living in the 60s on a short 1000 yard range ain't gonna help in today's game.
 
What does it matter? Both will get the job done. In the end the weak link is always the guy behind the rifle.
 
The 30-06 as absolutly superior to the 308. For some reason that crowd of queens thinks the cartridge is restricted to it's m1 loading. If you own a 30-06 and reload for it the 300winmag seems kinda stupid and the 308 is a laugh. At the end of the day the reloading manuals have the final say on what it can and can't do. Almost every one of my reloading manuals pegs the 30-06 with a 168 at 3000fps. Substantially faster than any 308. Don't by into the crap when your 308 buddies are blowing out primers and tossing brass after 2 reloads with their loads while you are continusouly loading your 06 to 3k with a 168. As it is with the car world, "Their is no replacement for displacement."
 
I sure have and I have a destroyed ar500 steel plate that was set out at 125yards to show it too.

<...Foolish hostility removed...>
 
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Mystro said:
Really,........Have you actually chronographed a 168 going 3000fps out of a 30-06????
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I have, last time I was home, messing around to see what MRP powder would do in my son's 30-06...pretty accurate too...shot 168 Ballistic Tips and 175 VLD's.

168 went 3,018 fps with 65 grains (pretty well compressed)...low ES and SD.

175 went 3,000 fps with the same powder charge.

All bullets seated to 3.34" OAL...bolt lift was normal, primer looked good, no head expansion...used Win brass...QuickLoad says its 63,000 psi, with all capacities measured and entered...worked in that rifle, may not work in yours.

24" barrel, Win model 70, Ultimate Shadow

Even H4350 will get the 168 to well over 2,900...
 
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I have, last time I was home, messing around to see what MRP powder would do in my son's 30-06...pretty accurate too...shot 168 Ballistic Tips and 175 VLD's.

168 went 3,018 fps with 65 grains (pretty well compressed)...low ES and SD.

175 went 3,000 fps with the same powder charge.
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This is what I'm talkin' about! Everybody wants to tout what the 308 can do with todays powders and bullets but they only want to compare it to what the 06 could do 50 years ago.
 
Most of us have lot and lots of calibers. I personally never had the need to max out any of my reloads simply because accuracy and killing power doesn't warrant it. If I needed 300 Win power, I grab the 300 Win. Realistically I have been getting away from those and back to the classics like 270, 308, etc...

My goodness has it been refreshing to carry a much lighter rifle in the woods with significantly less recoil. ;)
 
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Factory loadings for 150- and 165-grain bullets in the .308 and .30-'06 are right at the same muzzle velocity, for barrels of 22" or less. The '06 comes out ahead at 26", for sure.

Federal Premium High-Energy loads for the '06 with the Sierra 165-grain HPBT have been chronographed at 3,150 from 26" barrels. (Unkind to coyotes: http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16431&d=1135262262) A bit less for the .308, as I vaguely recall.

But the .308 has been proven in competition to be a more efficient performer in target accuracy at long range.
 
Art hit the nail on the head. I think it was the 270 Win and the 270 Weatherby. When the 270 Weatherby was shot out of a 22" barrel, it mimicked the same performance as the 270 Win. The barrel length made all the difference.
I know my tribe is/has been carrying everything from the 308, 270, 30-06, and 300win mag for deer and bear season and hasn't seen a bit of difference in the end result on game. Most all have been "bang....flop".
 
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Mystro,
I tried MRP in my wifes 270 too...a 22" barrel model 70 Featherweight Deluxe.

130 Ballistic Tips at 3,140 fps (22" barrel) and only 63,000 psi...3 shot group can be covered with a nickel.

My point is...using the right powders, a load that gives more speed isn't always maxxed out for pressure...it simply has a longer pressure curve.

This can be applied to any round, but nets more gains with standard length rounds...as has been said, there is no replacement for displacement.

There some good powders out there...it pays to experiment once in a while.
 
I have been going the other way since most of my loads for my family have been for the 240 and have been loaded down for the kids. My loads for my rifles are worked up for average to slightly above average velocity but more for accuracy. Once I find a good temperature stable load that is a tack driver, I am happy. They also tend to be the cleanest loads as well. Even my light loads for my nephew's 240 put down a nice big buck surprisingly quick.
 
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