3 explosions,3 mfgs.guns,in 40S&W
- Thread starter Wild Romanian
- Start date
.george smith:
I have not heard of a 10mm kaboom in the past (5) years of shooting a a dozen local ranges, tournies, talking to cops using 10mm's, and surfing all of the major gun boards.
Do your reserach, the 10mm may have given birth to the the 40SW round but that's it. Much thick case handles a couple thousand more units of pressure and its about .18" taller and uses a large pistol primer.
Most 10mm guns are so overengineered to handle the smack donw of a 10mm that the case usually just splits. I've split a couple cases with moderate loads and never even knew until I tumbled the cases. 10mm guns are built to last.
And all of this crap about 40SW kabooms has to due with bullet setback due to lead bullets, relatively unsupported barrels like in Glocks, cheap gun show reloads, and bad third world ammo like the one with a " dog" with red eyes on the label. Cheap ammo, bad powders way too fast for the pressure curve and you're at risk.
I load my own. Good components and half the price of factory.
Just buy an aftermarket full support barrel, use slow powders, and shoot FMJ. No big whoop!
FACTORY SUCKS - WHY DO YOU SHOOT IT!
I have not heard of a 10mm kaboom in the past (5) years of shooting a a dozen local ranges, tournies, talking to cops using 10mm's, and surfing all of the major gun boards.
Do your reserach, the 10mm may have given birth to the the 40SW round but that's it. Much thick case handles a couple thousand more units of pressure and its about .18" taller and uses a large pistol primer.
Most 10mm guns are so overengineered to handle the smack donw of a 10mm that the case usually just splits. I've split a couple cases with moderate loads and never even knew until I tumbled the cases. 10mm guns are built to last.
And all of this crap about 40SW kabooms has to due with bullet setback due to lead bullets, relatively unsupported barrels like in Glocks, cheap gun show reloads, and bad third world ammo like the one with a " dog" with red eyes on the label. Cheap ammo, bad powders way too fast for the pressure curve and you're at risk.
I load my own. Good components and half the price of factory.
Just buy an aftermarket full support barrel, use slow powders, and shoot FMJ. No big whoop!
FACTORY SUCKS - WHY DO YOU SHOOT IT!
TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR
I AM NOT suggesting that the mentioned guns were defective in ANY manor; they KB'd using issued duty loads.
I AM NOT pissing on the 40 S&W cartridge; I may not consider it my personal optimum choice for my personal specific needs.
I WITHOUT QUESTION AM STATING that if you handload for the 40 S&W be very particular about your process.
If you shoot factory loads buy carefully (to perform the "setback test" push the loaded round bullet-first, using your entire body-weight, into an immovable object; the OAL must stay the same).
I AM NOT suggesting that the mentioned guns were defective in ANY manor; they KB'd using issued duty loads.
I AM NOT pissing on the 40 S&W cartridge; I may not consider it my personal optimum choice for my personal specific needs.
I WITHOUT QUESTION AM STATING that if you handload for the 40 S&W be very particular about your process.
If you shoot factory loads buy carefully (to perform the "setback test" push the loaded round bullet-first, using your entire body-weight, into an immovable object; the OAL must stay the same).
George Smith
Inactive
jtduncan
why did you use my name at the top of your post?
I did not say what was in your post?
geo ><>
the colt frame crack was not a big deal. it cracked above the cut out for the slide stop so they cut that part out, wala! no more cracks.
the slide and frame to the best of my knowledge in material and weight are identical for 10 and std.
why did you use my name at the top of your post?
I did not say what was in your post?
geo ><>
the colt frame crack was not a big deal. it cracked above the cut out for the slide stop so they cut that part out, wala! no more cracks.
the slide and frame to the best of my knowledge in material and weight are identical for 10 and std.
I know a guy who had his .40 Glock blow up in his face.
This is not anecdotal, not a cousin's friends's brother, but I have shot with the person whose gun blew up.
This guy is a part-time deputy with the county.
They had just switched to the .40 cal Glock.
Jim was shooting lead handloads . He knew that Glock said don't do it, and he did it anyway.
He said it was possible that it was a double charge, as it had happened before. I don't think he thought of setback, at the time.
He says he heard a rather loud pop, and something went over his shoulder, (the slide).
Other than a slightly bruised hand, he was ok.
Since he was l.e., Glock repaired the gun free of charge.
They did ask him to please not shoot lead, or handloads again.
That said, I love my Glock 23.
Nearly 1000 rds through it, all factory, all fmj.
This is not anecdotal, not a cousin's friends's brother, but I have shot with the person whose gun blew up.
This guy is a part-time deputy with the county.
They had just switched to the .40 cal Glock.
Jim was shooting lead handloads . He knew that Glock said don't do it, and he did it anyway.
He said it was possible that it was a double charge, as it had happened before. I don't think he thought of setback, at the time.
He says he heard a rather loud pop, and something went over his shoulder, (the slide).
Other than a slightly bruised hand, he was ok.
Since he was l.e., Glock repaired the gun free of charge.
They did ask him to please not shoot lead, or handloads again.
That said, I love my Glock 23.
Nearly 1000 rds through it, all factory, all fmj.
CastleBravo
New member
I've never heard anything but one-off anecdotes and general nonsense about .40S&W case failures from the word "go." All the bleating and scary pictures aside, nobody has shown that:
1. kB! occur in .40S&W at a higher rate than other handgun calibers (because if this isn't the case, then who cares?)
2. KB! occur at a higher rate in certain pistols (e.g. Glocks with their dastardly lack of chamber support
)
3. There is a correlation between a particular design feature of a given pistol (e.g. lack of chamber support) and the rate of case failures.
4. A particular design feature of a handgun (e.g. lack of chamber support) actually CAUSES kB! to happen (since correlation and causation are NOT the same).
What has been demonstrated by at least 1 forensic engineer (MarkCO) is that:
1. Almost all kB! in .40S&W pistols occur with cast-lead handloads.
2. Cast lead bullets fired through polygonal-rifled pistol barrels (e.g. Glock and Hk) cause very rapid accumulations of lead residue, which in turn can cause dramatic increases in chamber pressure.
Other notable facts:
3. A humungous proportion of all .40S&W pistols are either Glock 22/23/24/27/35 or HK USP40s.
4. A humungous proportion of all kB! in .40S&W are in either Glock 22/23/24/27/35 or HK USP40s.
Likely conclusion: cast lead handloads + polygonal rifling = A Bad Idea. Because people combine the two, you hear about Glocks and USPs blowing up.
BTW, I don't really care either way since my .400" pistol caliber is 10mm Auto.
Even if y'all's mouse guns tend to blow up I don't have to worry... I just think the hysterical jammering about .40S&W makes no sense.
1. kB! occur in .40S&W at a higher rate than other handgun calibers (because if this isn't the case, then who cares?)
2. KB! occur at a higher rate in certain pistols (e.g. Glocks with their dastardly lack of chamber support
)3. There is a correlation between a particular design feature of a given pistol (e.g. lack of chamber support) and the rate of case failures.
4. A particular design feature of a handgun (e.g. lack of chamber support) actually CAUSES kB! to happen (since correlation and causation are NOT the same).
What has been demonstrated by at least 1 forensic engineer (MarkCO) is that:
1. Almost all kB! in .40S&W pistols occur with cast-lead handloads.
2. Cast lead bullets fired through polygonal-rifled pistol barrels (e.g. Glock and Hk) cause very rapid accumulations of lead residue, which in turn can cause dramatic increases in chamber pressure.
Other notable facts:
3. A humungous proportion of all .40S&W pistols are either Glock 22/23/24/27/35 or HK USP40s.
4. A humungous proportion of all kB! in .40S&W are in either Glock 22/23/24/27/35 or HK USP40s.
Likely conclusion: cast lead handloads + polygonal rifling = A Bad Idea. Because people combine the two, you hear about Glocks and USPs blowing up.
BTW, I don't really care either way since my .400" pistol caliber is 10mm Auto.
Even if y'all's mouse guns tend to blow up I don't have to worry... I just think the hysterical jammering about .40S&W makes no sense.>>>2. KB! occur at a higher rate in certain pistols (e.g. Glocks with their dastardly lack of chamber support )
Do more Glocks blow up in proportion to other pistol brands? There are millions of Glocks on the market and millions of rounds being fired through them.
Proportionately, how are the other brands doing in comparision to Glocks? Where's the data?
Why do conservative agencies like the FBI happily use Glocks, and that's after firing hundreds of thousands of .40 rounds through them? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Do more Glocks blow up in proportion to other pistol brands? There are millions of Glocks on the market and millions of rounds being fired through them.
Proportionately, how are the other brands doing in comparision to Glocks? Where's the data?
Why do conservative agencies like the FBI happily use Glocks, and that's after firing hundreds of thousands of .40 rounds through them? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Wild Romanian
Moderator
3 explosions,3mfgs.guns,in 40 S&W
Castlebravo:2. Cast lead bullets fired through polygonal-rifled pistol barrels (e.g. Glock and Hk) cause very rapid accumulations of lead residue, which in turn can cause dramatic increases in chamber pressure
In my experience of shooting lead bullets in Glocks, Hk's and even a 7.7 jap rifle and also HK rifles I have found no more build up of lead than in a handgun or rifle than with conventional rifling. Any gun can and will blow up if too much lead accumulates in the bore.
Is it not strange that few of the old style hadguns like the 1911's that have traditionally been used with millions of rounds of lead at the national matchs never seem to have this problem but more modern pistols carry warnings about shooting lead, even those that have conventional rifling. Are the manufactures of new style pistols just playing cautious or are they admitting that they produce inferior type weapons? You be the judge of that one.
Somewhere back on this very thread a gentleman wrote in to tell of 3 explosions he witnessed with .40's of various makes blowing up with factory ammo.
Even Jeff Cooper, the great guru and high priest of the 1911 crowd, the very person who started all this with his ill fated Bren 10, has made the statement that the .40 is a high pressure cartridge and that he is being cautious about this caliber.
I firmly believe that this cartridge does not have the margin of safety that some of the other cartriges have when it comes to bullet set back. AS I have said before I have seen people shoot 9mm and .45 acp's deliberately with bullet set back and their guns did not blow up. I would never try this with the .40 or really with any caliber. Pressures sky rocket but with the .40 it is all she wrote instantly. Couple this with a lack of chamber support and it is no wonder some makes of pistols are blowing up.
Another gentlemen mentioned that there is some speculation that the increased slide velocity in the .40 Glock may be contributing to firing the gun while it is out of battery. He may have something here because Glock at one time had a recall because of defective passive firing pin safetys. If this prevented the firing pin from retracting then it may have caused some of the blow ups. This is all speculation at this point and I personally do not believe that this is very likely but it is something to think about. W.R.
Castlebravo:2. Cast lead bullets fired through polygonal-rifled pistol barrels (e.g. Glock and Hk) cause very rapid accumulations of lead residue, which in turn can cause dramatic increases in chamber pressure
In my experience of shooting lead bullets in Glocks, Hk's and even a 7.7 jap rifle and also HK rifles I have found no more build up of lead than in a handgun or rifle than with conventional rifling. Any gun can and will blow up if too much lead accumulates in the bore.
Is it not strange that few of the old style hadguns like the 1911's that have traditionally been used with millions of rounds of lead at the national matchs never seem to have this problem but more modern pistols carry warnings about shooting lead, even those that have conventional rifling. Are the manufactures of new style pistols just playing cautious or are they admitting that they produce inferior type weapons? You be the judge of that one.
Somewhere back on this very thread a gentleman wrote in to tell of 3 explosions he witnessed with .40's of various makes blowing up with factory ammo.
Even Jeff Cooper, the great guru and high priest of the 1911 crowd, the very person who started all this with his ill fated Bren 10, has made the statement that the .40 is a high pressure cartridge and that he is being cautious about this caliber.
I firmly believe that this cartridge does not have the margin of safety that some of the other cartriges have when it comes to bullet set back. AS I have said before I have seen people shoot 9mm and .45 acp's deliberately with bullet set back and their guns did not blow up. I would never try this with the .40 or really with any caliber. Pressures sky rocket but with the .40 it is all she wrote instantly. Couple this with a lack of chamber support and it is no wonder some makes of pistols are blowing up.
Another gentlemen mentioned that there is some speculation that the increased slide velocity in the .40 Glock may be contributing to firing the gun while it is out of battery. He may have something here because Glock at one time had a recall because of defective passive firing pin safetys. If this prevented the firing pin from retracting then it may have caused some of the blow ups. This is all speculation at this point and I personally do not believe that this is very likely but it is something to think about. W.R.
CastleBravo
New member
Mr Cooper isn't to blame for the .40 Short & Weak, he is one of the people who deserves CREDIT for the 10mm Auto cartridge... you know, the magnum-power-level .400" autopistol caliber that doesn't seem to kB!
W. R.
Which manufacturers recommend not shooting lead bullets? Springfield Armory does not say that. Nor SIG. Nor any of the manuals for my Colt revolvers. Nor the one for my Ruger SRH. Who are all these manufacturers you speak of?
To imply that most manufacturers are making inferior barrels these days is silly. The industry has established that it is unsafe to shoot lead through barrels with polygonal rifling. What makes your experience more valid than their data?
Bullet set-back can be a problem with any caliber. That's one of the reasons you are supposed to pay attention to what you are putting into your gun.
We have established that you don't like the forty. I don't like the 9mm. So what? The arguments you put forth to convince me that the forty is dangerous lack substance. All I see is your opinion and a significant lack of data.
Which manufacturers recommend not shooting lead bullets? Springfield Armory does not say that. Nor SIG. Nor any of the manuals for my Colt revolvers. Nor the one for my Ruger SRH. Who are all these manufacturers you speak of?
To imply that most manufacturers are making inferior barrels these days is silly. The industry has established that it is unsafe to shoot lead through barrels with polygonal rifling. What makes your experience more valid than their data?
Bullet set-back can be a problem with any caliber. That's one of the reasons you are supposed to pay attention to what you are putting into your gun.
We have established that you don't like the forty. I don't like the 9mm. So what? The arguments you put forth to convince me that the forty is dangerous lack substance. All I see is your opinion and a significant lack of data.
AR-10,
Throughout this posting multiple individuals have stated that Glock Inc., the manufacturer of Glock handguns SPECIFICALLY state in their literature NOT to use lead bullets in their handguns. It is in plain English. Springfield, Ruger, SIG etc. do not use polygonal rifling in their firearms. It is a known fact that polygonal rifling and lead dont mix. If every gunowner read their instruction booklets that came with their firearm, we all would be a safer bunch of people. Some people are stating "with their vast experience" with lead bullets and polygonal rifling its OK. Some people can't follow instructions and in turn get hurt. Just dont understand
!
Throughout this posting multiple individuals have stated that Glock Inc., the manufacturer of Glock handguns SPECIFICALLY state in their literature NOT to use lead bullets in their handguns. It is in plain English. Springfield, Ruger, SIG etc. do not use polygonal rifling in their firearms. It is a known fact that polygonal rifling and lead dont mix. If every gunowner read their instruction booklets that came with their firearm, we all would be a safer bunch of people. Some people are stating "with their vast experience" with lead bullets and polygonal rifling its OK. Some people can't follow instructions and in turn get hurt. Just dont understand
!