3 explosions,3 mfgs.guns,in 40S&W

Firearms unsafe?? Who'd'a'thunk it?

Well, let me see if I can sum all this information up.......2.5 pounds of metal housing a high explosive, and a projectile. Oh...and of course an even faster acting primer explosive. Held in the bare hand, 24 inches away from someone's head....hmmmm....sounds kinda risky to me. I might even go so far as to predict that some may malfunction, and blow up!!!
Yup...I guess that's why children get rattles instead of handguns for gifts.
LEGAL DISCLAIMER......FIREARMS ARE DANGEROUS.....HANDLE WITH CARE AND ONLY IF PROPERLY TRAINED.
Do you think a skull and crossbones imprinted on every pistol would make this anymore clear?
Folks.....9mm, .40 cal, 10mm, .45 cal, 50 cal......They could ALL produce the same catastrophic failure that would produce a KB.
Afterall, it's not just the cartridge involved in the KB.
JMHAIO :)
 
.40 is a good caliber, considering its purpose and limitations. It allows "small" guns to have lots of powerful big bullets. The limitation is that the chamber pressure is extremely high compared to the 9mm and .45. Having reloaded for both the 9mm and .45, I personally would never take the chance of reloading .40 rounds; and if I did, I would use jacketed bullets with powder below normal specs. Glock .40s were blowing up in the mid-90s with lead bulleted reloads. This is nothing new.

I like my classic 9mm and .45 weapons, but for powerful ammo in a compact package with high capacity, I carry a Glock .40 everyday.
 
"Tax, this is what I referred to in an earlier post. Think of all the law enforcement agencies (State, City and Federal) that use 40 cal guns and 40 cal Glocks in particular. Combined they likely shoot milliions of rounds. While some have gone away from the Glock because it's harder to shoot accuratly or the 40 recoils too much for gun shy recruits, I'm unaware of a single agency dropping the Glock (or any 40) because it blows up."

For what it's worth, and it really doesn't add to the discussion, law enforcement probably puts fewer round through their guns, than any other group. They qualify once or twice a year, then put their weapon's back in their holster.
The civilian shooting public would bury all of Law Enforcement with empty brass.
 
I am personally aware of two SIGs, an H&K, and Glock M22's KBing using duty ammo.

I am also personally aware of multiple thousands of remanufactured 40 S&W 180g training loads performing at 100%, with excellent accuracy.

Mine, natch...
 
Man, this is really the thread that wouldn't die. :)

When I purchased my G27, I began to read these "blow-up" warnings and I thought maybe I had made a mistake. Maybe I should have bought the G26 first. However, I began to LIKE the .40 cal. It was accurate and powerful. I decided to take a little precaution, right at the start, by buying Federal Hydra-Shok "PD" ammo. I figured that it was downloaded a little. I still use it. (Mostly) Everything I have read says that the H-S "PD", .40 cal, 136gr. cartridge is pretty hard to beat in a G27. (And you thought all I had were pocket pistols. :) Actually, the G27 is "almost" a pocket pistol.)

Kentucky Rifle
 
The solution seems so simple, stop your whining and DON'T buy a 40 you bunch of mamsy pamsy sissy girls... :rolleyes:


Seriously though, I can understand the hatred for the cartridge- although I personally like it- but living each day looking for ways to trash talk a cartridge. Go for a walk.
 
HKs

Onslaught makes a good point about the HK USP being designed from the ground up to handle the .40. There is a thread over on the HKPRO Boards on the subject of USP kBs and reports of HK .40 blow-ups seem all but non-existant. There's a report of a .45 kB, possibly caused by an out of battery condition, but precious few other HK failures (other than sheer negligence). I have full confidence in my HK .40s and hope to continue handloading for them with caution, sense and safety. Pure speculation, but there seem to be enough reports of Glock .40 kBs to hint at a design/cartridge problem except when used within narrow design parameters...possibly because it was scaled up from a 9, or its unsupported chamber, or the oversize chambers, or the striker design allowing the gun to fire in an out of battery condition during rapid fire (coupled with the -fast- Glock trigger and the observation that .40s seem to me to have a *really* fast slide speed compared to 9 or 45), or a combination of all the above. No doubt hotrodding the cartridge with heavy bullets to major power levels also has contributed to problems, since it's already operating at its design limits and a little setback, which is more likely with heavy bullets, can raise pressures considerably. I think this "scaled-up from 9" argument may have some merit. Now I'm worried about that dang Beretta 96D I got such a good deal on:(
 
Never stand near an extractor. This can happen with any make.

Any recruit that can't handle the recoil of a .40, is not fit to be a Police Officer. This makes me want to puke.

Something works about the .40, it's on its way to becoming quite prolific in LEO circles.

If you don't like the .40, don't buy one.

Glock is doing something right. Actions always trump anectdotes.

Have a nice day.
 
what more good advice do we need?

WESHOOT2
Senior Member

Registered: 02-20-1999
Location: Duxbury VT USA
Posts: 2966
I am personally aware of two SIGs, an H&K, and Glock M22's KBing using duty ammo.


Thanks WESHOOT2 for relating to us some of your personal experiences. That story by itself has convinced me to stay far away from owning and even farther away from anyone shooting a 40 S&W handgun. I personally like to throw grenades not have them go off unexpectedly and without warning in my hand. W.R.
 
I've shot thousands of rounds of IMI 180gr 40S&W through a Taurus PT100, and never had a KB. My buddy has put thousands of rounds of the same ammo through his Uzi Eagle without a KB. My FFL dealer has put thousands of rounds of all kinds of different 40 S&W through his Sig, still, no KBs.
I think some people are so set in their ways, that anything new is evil.
 
The .40 is not a super high pressure cartridge! The chamber pressure of the .40 is the same as the 9mm!

Back in the early 80's when the 9mm was coming into vogue, the gun magazines articles all warned that it was an ultra high pressure cartridge and extreme care had to be taken to prevent bullet setback during reloading as this could cause super high pressures in a round already loaded to the max. This was more prone to happen when using heavy bullets.

Does any of this sound familiar ?

The 9mm is now regarded as a "standard" pressure round. Why ? What has changed ?

The answer is easy-the passage of time. As time passed and shooters flocked to the 9mm in droves, loading practices evolved and problems diminished to the point where people forget the stories of the past. Remember, the .40 is a relatively new round.

Many people seem to be confusing recoil with pressure, assuming that since the .40 has more recoil than the 9 in the same gun that it must be operating at a higher pressure. Remember, the .45, which recoils more than the .40, operates at a lower chamber pressure than the 9 and .40. Recoil does not translate directly into chamber pressure.

As for there being few (or no) problems with the HK, I saw (handled) a USP with a big chunk of plastic blown from the right side of the receiver just beneath the safety lever. The guy insisted it was a factory load.

Why do Glock's seem to KB more than other brands in this caliber ? Since the overwhelming number of these types of events (supposedly) seem to occur in this make of pistol, perhaps we should look to the design. As a side note, I do not personally care for Glock for myself. That being said, my wife's carry gun is a Glock 26, and I have several friends whose opinions I value greatly, who swear by their Glocks. I may not like one for myself but I do acknowledge that they do work and work well.

The point of my little diatribe is that the .40 is not the overpressure monster that it has been made out to be. I have guns in 9, .40, and .45, and have carried guns at different times in each caliber. I now predominently shoot the .40, as that is my issued sidearm. Each has it's strength's and weaknesses. If you don't want a .40, fine. But don't base your decision on misconceptions and unsupported suppositions because of "I know a guy who..." or "I read on the internet...".

Thanks

Tom
 
Isn't it about time that this thread was put out of its misery? :rolleyes:
 
Glock236
I've heard almost as many kb stories w/ H&K as I have w/ Glock... Did it stop me from buying either in .40???? Nope
Click to expand...

Just where are you hearing of all these H&K kb stories???? :rolleyes:

I'm on the internet, at the range and the shops talking to shooters as much as anyone and I've heard VERY little (if any) about H&K kbs in any caliber. The few I have heard about (maybe two or three) have been second or third hand from someone on the internet.

I'm serious though, not trying to flame, just wondering if H&Ks are kb-ing at the same rate as GLOCKs, why aren't we hearing about it???

Shake
 
Don't blame me that I've done better research than you... When I had my USP .40 from Mid 98 till this past April, I did as much studying on it that I do on my Glocks that I own now. Just because the H&K is more robust doesn't mean it won't or can't kb. One Problem w/ both Glock and H&K's USP .40 cals is that they both don't have fully supported chambers(Though I believe the USP barrel has a bit more support).

I personally think that most every kb! is the fault of the user using reloads and lead which void the warranty for either pistols anyways. I'm not some guy that's so Pro Glock that I'm trying to bash the USP, The Glock 23 was just a better fit for me and I'll be buying a USP Expert sometime soon and will be checking out the USP Replacement (The P2000???) when they're finally released.

I will change my statement and say that I've heard quite a few kb! stories about the H&K USP.

BTW... If H&K's USP sold as much as Glocks it would probably be an even amount of kb! stories.
 
Don't blame me that I've done better research than you...
Click to expand...
:barf:

Your original statement was "I've heard almost as many kb stories w/ H&K as I have w/ Glock..."

. . .then you proceed to quote/link a page where a reference is made to a number (how many 1, 2, 5000???) of kbs in H&K USPs. I fail to see how that is better research, or how it in any way comes close to providing proof that the H&K USP kbs almost as much as the GLOCK. The fact is, there is very little information on the web or anywhere for that matter about H&K kbs. I wonder why??? You yourself linked us to an entire web site deovted to the whole phenomena of GLOCK kbs. If H&Ks are kb-ing at almost the same rate, where is the H&K kb web site??


BTW... If H&K's USP sold as much as Glocks it would probably be an even amount of kb! stories.
Click to expand...
You just told us that they already were kbing at a rate almost equal to the GLOCK. I highly doubt that there would be as many. In your studying, did you ever pull the barrel of a .40 GLOCK and a barrel of a .40 H&K and compare the support a cartridge gets in both? Try it.

Just as you are not trying to bash the H&K, I'm not trying to bash the GLOCK. I happen to think they are great guns. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one in .40 (although I happen to like the G17 and G19 much better).

I agree that probably the vast majority of kbs are a result of poor handloading. In fact, it probably very rarely happens when people use factory ammo, or have some common sense when reloading.

Shake
 
You really are a ****tard... The only reason I posted that link was too give an example of what I found real quick cause, since I don't have the USP anymore I don't have the previous bookmarks I had accumulated for the time I had the gun.

What I had b4 and what I found quickly last night was 2 different thing.
 
KBs...

I've managed, in cooperation with my brother, to blow apart one Glock
20 with a factory barrel, but as it turned out, that batch of
cartridges was badly overloaded, and the brass wasn't quite new.

Else? HK USPs in .45, even using .45 Super, never blew up. 9mm Glocks,
SIGs and USPs never blew up. That HS2000 also works nicely and hasn't
blown up yet, despite the fact that the owner buys and shoots 9mm in
bulk, especially that surplus Hirtenberger stuff that was not
recommended for handguns.

Also, my rifles are quite alive, and I shoot quite a few reloads.
 
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