22lr effective as?

.22

I like .45s.....big fat heavy bullets plowing right along.
That being said....the .22 is a dangerous weapon and far, far better than a knife.
Take a look at the video of the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan:
Reagan was severely wounded and three adult males were immediately incapacitated by a single round each from Hinckley’s .22.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5Xjbnches
 
I think it has to do with: on drugs vs not on drugs.

Somebody on meth, or pcp can walk through a poorly placed bullet, no matter the caliber. Somebody stone cold sober is very likely to be hit by one 22lr and think, "omg, he just shot me, I'm done."

Yes, of course I think there must be several stone cold sober people who can walk through a 22 lr bullet no problem - those people could likely walk through a 9 mm as well.

When it comes to 22lr I think the most famous carry gun is the North American Arms revolvers - if I had to chose between the 5 shots there and two shots in the Bond Arms 45 derringer I think I would go Bond Arms... Why? I think most people likely to attack are going to feel the one/two shots of 45 colt than the 22lr.

That being said - I do not like having two shots. So my carry is a 5 shot 38 special.

This article makes a good case for 22lr as a self defense round.. I read this article the other day

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2010/10/26/22-lr-for-self-defense/
 
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A bud of mine, his sister was very upset after being dumped by an ex. She decided to teach him a lesson, in front of his house, by committing suicide in her car. She shot herself through the heart with a 22 LR pistol. A passerby heard her screams and called an ambulance. The doctors determined the bullet had gone through her heart and decided not to do any surgery and let the blood clot heal. And so it was, she is still around today.

Now if she had used something larger, she probably would have bled out. I don't consider a 22lr a decent self defense round and do not recommend it.
 
More than five years back, I say, "more than five," because it was before I carried and I've been carrying about 5 years, I had an incident where somebody with road rage pulled right up next to me, and flashed a gun in his window - admittedly, I should have dialed 911 but dude pulled away, and I just let it go. My point being, one of the reasons I carry is because of other people's insane road rage. I'm not worried somebody is going to attack me on the streets - you would be pretty stupid as my exercise routine is pretty much Brazilian jiu jitsu all day everyday - I carry mostly concerned with A: other people's road rage, and B: gang members.

And if somebody pulls up to you in a car, and gets out, and they start shooting, or they are crazy violent.. I'm sorry, but I want my Smithy loaded with Federal HydroShock

Because I know you can not accept that bullet and continue.

When I clean my revolver, I triple, and quadruple check to make sure the thing is unloaded because I know if I accidentally hit myself with a HyrdoShock I am going to be screaming in agony.

The other thing is gang members - back when I was a youngster - age 19 - 25, I lived in Los Angeles. Gang stuff happens in bad areas, gang stuff happens in good areas too. I've seen a lot of random gang violence just happen on city streets. And that is like 5 guys at a time, 6 guys at a time.. and I just can't imagine a little bug having any effectiveness there.

So I think part of my problem is I feel South Florida - specifically Palm Beach County is a place where criminals are pretty violent, heavily armed. There are tons of drugs and gangs here, and I am just put off with the 22 lr ammo. Not to mention that rimfire ammo can have a dud here and there

I dunno, when I think 22lr I think of the tv show Gangland, and then I think, "who might randomly attack you on a street these days?" What character's and mayhem is out and about in the world?

For me the striker fired semi-auto - glock, xds, m&p is not a ccw gun. For me!! I am saying for personal reasons it is not what I like.


I am considering moving up to a hammer fired semi-auto these days - but I have some other things to think about there.

Long story short, when I begin to pick it apart, I just can't logically carry a 22lr where I live.


"Where," being the caveat.. cause if I was in a different geographical location.. "A small town in Montana, population 100." What are you going to carry there? A Glock 17? Why?
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I'll say it again, on the off chance that somebody might learn something-

There is no hydrostsatic shock with handgun ammunition.
Click to expand...
I didn't claim there was. I claimed a 38 special self defense load hurts a heck of a lot more than a 22 lr

I happen to carry Federal cause its a high quality brand and low recoil
 
PB, an earlier post referenced hydrostatic shock. I took Mr. DeShiv's post to be answering that, and he just saw it and posted it after yours.

You seem to have a lot of confidence in your ammo, and confidence is a good thing, but be aware that none of the commonly carried handgun calibers, including .38 special, give a high percentage of one-shot stops. You describe a lot of factors that cause folks to consider increasing capacity beyond that of revolvers.

I'm kind of thinking the Palm Beach County Chamber of Commerce may not be among your biggest fans, but I understand what you are saying. It is a high enough population density to have some rough areas, and rough people don't stay in rough areas.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I'll say it again, on the off chance that somebody might learn something-

There is no hydrostsatic shock with handgun ammunition.
Click to expand...

Somebody might learn something....

Here is proof of temporary cavity (shock effect) happening from a handgun bullet, on live deer lungs:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0702/0702107.pdf

135 gr. Nosler @ 1,367 fps expanded diameter .58 pulverized what appears to be 1.5 inch hole in lungs.
 
A couple of years ago my daughter had her wedding at her husbands uncles cabin. He was telling me how this black bear had been tearing up his bird feeders and how one day the only thing he had handy to scare it off was a .22 rifle he kept by the door. He just pointed it in the direction of the bear to scare it and fired one shot. The bear fell dead on the spot and he got quite concerned he had just illegally killed it by accident. So he got on his tractor and drug it into the woods a ways, dug a hole and buried it right away. Now, obviously I didn't witness this, but he's not the type to be full of it and I believed him.
 
I can't compare my carry round to a .22lr, because 75% of the time, I carry a .22lr. I pant pocket carry. During the winter, when I can carry in a coat with an inside chest pocket, I carry a snub .38spcl revolver with five shots. My .22lr carry is nine shots, and feel fine with either. So I guess one could say I'm 2:1 (two .22 to one .38spcl)
 
You could look at it like this.
One shot from a 22LR could either stop or discourage a bad guy.

OTOH, some bad guys have had a mag of 45ACP dumped into them, and kept
on coming.

Now, you have to decide what caliber you want to carry, based on your
perception of both extremes.
 
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2,000 fps as threshold speed Mythbusted

Bill DeShivs said:
Temporary wound cavity and hydrostatic shock are entirely different things.
Click to expand...

I still have an example, the definition of hydrostatic shock is what they described seeing in the deer.

Definition:
"Hydrostatic shock or hydraulic shock is a term which describes the observation that a penetrating projectile can produce remote wounding and incapacitating effects in living targets through a hydraulic effect in their liquid-filled tissues, in addition to local effects in tissue caused by direct impact."

From the article I linked:
"We also observed mild hemorrhaging along the abdominal walls and rear rib cage on the right side. This is the area directly opposite from the entrance wound, but several inches caudal (rearward) from the point where the bullet exited the rib cage. Thus this region was out of reach of both the permanent crush cavity and the temporary stretch cavity, and it seems that the most likely cause of the hemorrhaging was the pressure wave"

135 gr. @ 1,367 fps = hydrostatic shock effect, from a handgun.
40 S&W loaded hot
10mm for sure
357 Sig produces that velocity with a 125 gr.
 
Well then what's the magic point where it can happen?
Click to expand...


This has been beat to crap on the internet with very, very few people even knowing where it came from. Many people will parrot 2000 fps without even knowing where it came from.

In the late 1880's (If I recall correctly) a German scientist was studying bullet wounds. You must understand that smokeless powder had not been used yet in the military context. So we had high velocity bullet wounds caused by rifles @ 2000 fps and low velocity bullet wounds caused by handguns bellow 1000 fps.

Limited studies were conducted in cavtation and bullet wounds, it was discovered that the larger the diameter the lower the velocity needed for cavitation. It is a known problem for submarines for example.

When we discuss magnum revolver cartridges and rounds such as the 9mm +P+ and 357 Sig we are really making things interesting.

To the OP 22LR, self defense? Unless anything else is impossible, no. I don't have 3 weeks to wait for someone to bleed out or develop toxemia. I would use what police use as a baseline. Knowing the history of LE is helpful, the LRN 38 special was used for many years by many departments because it was cheap and politically expedient, not because it was effective.
 
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