22lr effective as?
- Thread starter Oyster Stew
- Start date
As others have said, stopping an attacker ASAP is the goal in self defense and 22lr is lest likely to accomplish this compared to 9mm/40/45
String of shots:
Just my opinion, even in a justified self defense shooting how many times the defender shoots the attacker could be questioned.
More opinion, a jury is not likely to differentiate whether a defender used a 9mm or a 22lr (caliber)- just that the defender shot the attacker 6-7 times, which might seem excessive compared to 2-3 (something to consider).
Willie Lowman
New member
I heard a rap song once that described this pretty well...
"22's is only good for hiding
Need more firepower when I'm riding"
"22's is only good for hiding
Need more firepower when I'm riding"
zincwarrior
New member
I would not carry .22lr. I love the round but it is far too unreliable to stake my life on.
Green Lantern
New member
If the attacker has no weapon. One will work.
One in the eye socket or eye drum.
One in the eye socket or eye drum.
OldMarksman
Staff
If one had the time to try that, on is unlikely to be able to put forth a persuasive argument supporting a reasonable belief that the immediate necessity and imminent threat necessary to justify the lawful use of deadly force existed.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
This is an old debate. To summarize:
1. 22s are reasonable if that is all you have and/or physical limitations lead you to use such. Ayoob recommended a single action 22 LR revolver for an older person with limited hand strength.
2. There is great benefit of deterring folks with the presence of a handgun. Deterrence occurs more than having shots fired. Before someone pontificates that the zombie, crazed, meth head, biker won't be deterred - MOST will be deterred, so why throw away that majority benefit by not having such a gun (if that's all or handicapped)? Elmer Keith - the 44 mag guy - said a 22 is small until it is pointed at you.
3. Figuring out the equivalency of a 22 to a 9 is fun. Probably technically impossible to do with accuracy. I love the binomial theorem and used to teach it.
Anecdotes are fun. There is the police officer who unloaded a 357 into a guy who stayed in the fight and killed the officer with a 22 mag NAA Mini if IIRC.
What is the eye drum? BTW, there is no guarantee that a shot into the eye socket will instantly disable someone. Folks have fought through eye damage and you don't know if that shot will penetrate to more important CNS structures. Spouting tough guy cliches isn't really useful.
If you take a gun targeting anatomy class you don't aim for the eyes in a head shot. Shooting into the ear canal in a dynamic situation is difficult to say the least. Try to get that precision by hitting some area the size of a dime in a steel challenge match under speed and stress situations.
To summarize - if you are a beginner, your best bet (if you are serious and not one of our instinctive warriors who don't need to train) is to learn to master a quality semi auto, probably in 9mm. Learn to shoot accurately, the basics and then move on to trying such under stress in appropriate classes and competitions. They are better tests of 'in the eye socket' than the square range at 3 yards.
That being said - if circumstances or ability lead me to only use my Buckmark, Bearcat or Ruger 10/22 - I'm going to do that rather than wave the frying pan like in a Lifetime Movie Network flic where you hear a noise at night.
PS - versus a knife. You have to close with a knife. Distance is your friend. Let's not be silly again with the cliches.
1. 22s are reasonable if that is all you have and/or physical limitations lead you to use such. Ayoob recommended a single action 22 LR revolver for an older person with limited hand strength.
2. There is great benefit of deterring folks with the presence of a handgun. Deterrence occurs more than having shots fired. Before someone pontificates that the zombie, crazed, meth head, biker won't be deterred - MOST will be deterred, so why throw away that majority benefit by not having such a gun (if that's all or handicapped)? Elmer Keith - the 44 mag guy - said a 22 is small until it is pointed at you.
3. Figuring out the equivalency of a 22 to a 9 is fun. Probably technically impossible to do with accuracy. I love the binomial theorem and used to teach it.
Anecdotes are fun. There is the police officer who unloaded a 357 into a guy who stayed in the fight and killed the officer with a 22 mag NAA Mini if IIRC.
What is the eye drum? BTW, there is no guarantee that a shot into the eye socket will instantly disable someone. Folks have fought through eye damage and you don't know if that shot will penetrate to more important CNS structures. Spouting tough guy cliches isn't really useful.
If you take a gun targeting anatomy class you don't aim for the eyes in a head shot. Shooting into the ear canal in a dynamic situation is difficult to say the least. Try to get that precision by hitting some area the size of a dime in a steel challenge match under speed and stress situations.
To summarize - if you are a beginner, your best bet (if you are serious and not one of our instinctive warriors who don't need to train) is to learn to master a quality semi auto, probably in 9mm. Learn to shoot accurately, the basics and then move on to trying such under stress in appropriate classes and competitions. They are better tests of 'in the eye socket' than the square range at 3 yards.
That being said - if circumstances or ability lead me to only use my Buckmark, Bearcat or Ruger 10/22 - I'm going to do that rather than wave the frying pan like in a Lifetime Movie Network flic where you hear a noise at night.
PS - versus a knife. You have to close with a knife. Distance is your friend. Let's not be silly again with the cliches.
Terminatorret
New member
Thanks, "mavracer"... I agree 100%.
Today, I went to town with only a Ruger Single Six strapped to my belt and an NAA mini in my pocket. I left my .357 Blackhawks (2), my Service Sixes (2), my Makarovs (2), my CZ82 and 83 and my PPK at home. I guess that if I felt I needed "nuclear handgun power", I would have strapped on my CZ-52 or M57 7.62x25's...but the Single Six beckoned me today, and I didn't feel outgunned nor fearful.
15 years as a trauma nurse in the local ER taught me that handgun dependability and accuracy far outweigh caliber. Those .22 LR's are nasty.
Today, I went to town with only a Ruger Single Six strapped to my belt and an NAA mini in my pocket. I left my .357 Blackhawks (2), my Service Sixes (2), my Makarovs (2), my CZ82 and 83 and my PPK at home. I guess that if I felt I needed "nuclear handgun power", I would have strapped on my CZ-52 or M57 7.62x25's...but the Single Six beckoned me today, and I didn't feel outgunned nor fearful.
15 years as a trauma nurse in the local ER taught me that handgun dependability and accuracy far outweigh caliber. Those .22 LR's are nasty.
If it is a legitimate self-defense incident, the lawyers can, and will say a lot, but the merits of the case will also come to bear. If that caliber (the .22LR) was all that was in hand or available at the time of need and there was a justifiable need to shoot to preserve life and limb, then that is all that matters. If the case can made that the person defending their life with the .22 had the time and ability to run off, obtain and return with another weapon in another caliber, then the self-defense shooting would be unjustifiable and caliber would matter very little.
RAEIndustries
New member
In the back of the ear just one
i cannot add much to the well informed discussion here except to carry what you are physically and financially comfortable practicing alot with. if one’s lifestyle regularly places a person out and about in dangerous places at night then a centerfire handgun or a lifestyle change is the best choice.
im a big fan of 22, both lr and wmr, and 17hmr in a rifle. they are fun at the range, affordable, easily carried with a bunch of ammo, and will mostly work for my lifestyle and physical abilities as i age.
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im a big fan of 22, both lr and wmr, and 17hmr in a rifle. they are fun at the range, affordable, easily carried with a bunch of ammo, and will mostly work for my lifestyle and physical abilities as i age.
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Implicit in this is that a 22 is sufficient for "non-dangerous" places during daytime, as if attackers are anemic in daylight, or if they happen to be in a "good" area.
Lifestyle may limit the likelihood of being attacked (having to use deadly force) but if the situation (attacker) justifies deadly force, lifestyle is irrelevant.
Someone coming at you with a knife (weapon) is the same lethal threat during daylight in Small Town USA as it is Atlanta at night.
I want the same threat stopping potential regardless of light or location.
Blindstitch
New member
I sat on a trial where a person with a 22lr robbed a drug dealer and their lackey in their home and the defendant tried to argue that it was a love affair gone wrong because several flailing shots ended up in the man specific anatomy. Truth be told if the guy was carrying another magazine the witness would also be dead. Most of the shots were center mass and traveled through the body like they were in a silly straw.
I would prefer a 9mm but anythings better than a sharp stick.
implicit in my comment is the limitation on our physical capability as we age or become chronically ill. i too may “want” what i could use with ease at another point in my life. indeed some persons cannot change their location. if the only protection that a person can handle is a rimfire then my humble advice is to get a rimfire and become comfortable with it. while attacks can happen anywhere and anytime, situational awareness and prudence count for protection perhaps as much as caliber size. thankfully americans enjoy many choices for the most suitable protection tool.
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OldMarksman
Staff
That's about the size of it.
ShootistPRS
New member
If I get to the point where I can't handle anything but a 22RF I will get very good with whatever gun I use.
After all is said and done, you use what you have to the best of your ability and if the Creator is willing you stay alive. (forgive the PC wording)
After all is said and done, you use what you have to the best of your ability and if the Creator is willing you stay alive. (forgive the PC wording)
The 22lr is a very lethal round it will allow for better shot placement from a novice shooter because the recoil is very minimal. It will also allow the shooter to practice more because the ammunition is a lot cheaper. It will kill but how fast is all dependent on shot placement. A bigger caliber gun with more recoil will kill and create more wound damage due to cavitation from hydrostatic shock which in turn can take the fight out of the aggressor much faster than a 22lr will. But shot placement is key and if recoil is that bad from a larger caliber bullet it is less likely that also the individual will not be as accurate. I worked many many years in an Emergency Trauma center and in my life time just as many people died from a 22 as from any other type of caliber.
If you recall the shootout at the Holocaust Museum a few years ago an older man went inside the museum and he killed 2 or 3 guards using a 22 rifle. The man was finally shot in the head with a 9mm and I believe he survived several days before he died from the gunshot. So take this information for what it is worth and decide what is best for you.
If you recall the shootout at the Holocaust Museum a few years ago an older man went inside the museum and he killed 2 or 3 guards using a 22 rifle. The man was finally shot in the head with a 9mm and I believe he survived several days before he died from the gunshot. So take this information for what it is worth and decide what is best for you.