20 yrs old and frustrated
- Thread starter jslackin
- Start date
- Status
David Armstrong
Moderator
My advice would be do not get your legal advice from a bunch of unknown folks on the internet. I've noticed at least 3 suggestions here that could be a violation of the law depending on what state they occur in, and one probable federal violation. Maybe all these folks know Arizona law real well, but I'd hate to take a chance on it. I'd suggest contacting the NRA and seeing who they can recommend you talk with, or even checking with the JAG or Legal Officer on your base.
You CAN have a friend buy a gun, keep it for a month or a little longer, then sell it to you. There is no law that says it must be fired for you to buy it. It is not a straw purchace if they have possesion of it for that amount of time. There are tons of guys who buy a gun, fire it, find it not to their liking and sell it within a couple weeks to a month. It doesn't turn it into a straw purchace simply because they sell it quickly. There is no law that says you must have ownership for a given length of time, before you can sell your gun.
Straw purchaces are designed to keep me someone who has say, been convicted of domestic violence from going into his local gunshop with his buddy, handing over the cash before going up to the counter, then having his buddy fill out the federal forms, make the transaction and turn the gun over to him. If the guy has been convicted of domestic violence, he can't possess the gun anyway. At least not in most states. The only reason for straw purchaces are to help someone who can't legally own a gun or buy from a dealer get one. Re-selling the gun after the transaction is not prohibited, unless it is done immediately after to someone who wouldn't otherwise be able to go in and buy for himself. I have been buying guns for a long time, and I have yet to fill out a form that says I can't resell the gun within a certain time period. All the form asks is, am I the actual purchacer.
The question I have is how long before you turn 21? If it's only a matter of a few months, just wait, and then you won't have to worry about any of this.
Straw purchaces are designed to keep me someone who has say, been convicted of domestic violence from going into his local gunshop with his buddy, handing over the cash before going up to the counter, then having his buddy fill out the federal forms, make the transaction and turn the gun over to him. If the guy has been convicted of domestic violence, he can't possess the gun anyway. At least not in most states. The only reason for straw purchaces are to help someone who can't legally own a gun or buy from a dealer get one. Re-selling the gun after the transaction is not prohibited, unless it is done immediately after to someone who wouldn't otherwise be able to go in and buy for himself. I have been buying guns for a long time, and I have yet to fill out a form that says I can't resell the gun within a certain time period. All the form asks is, am I the actual purchacer.
The question I have is how long before you turn 21? If it's only a matter of a few months, just wait, and then you won't have to worry about any of this.
fisherman66
New member
No comment on the frustration part. Thanks for you service!!
Thanks for your service to our nation. Sorry about the bum law. BEWARE THE STRAW PURCHASE: Person A buys gun for person B with money from person B (before or after the purchase) and hands/delivers/gives/sells the gun to person B. This WILL get you in bad legal trouble. Among other things, possible dishonorable discharge and never being allowed to own a gun for the rest of your life. Sorry but the best advice I can give you is to wait (patiently or impatiently) until your 21st birthday to buy a pistol. In the meantime can you shoot someone else's guns and save your money to buy what you want on your 21st Bday? Good Luck.
No, not the way you describe it.
If he bought the gun for you knowing that at some point in the future that you were going to pay him for it that qualifies as a straw purchase.
There is no time limit in the law. If it was purchased by person A specifically for the purpose of selling it to person B then it's a straw purchase regardless of how long it takes to complete the transaction.
These two suggestions would make it difficult to prove a straw purchase, but a straw purchase is about intent and therefore neither one is legal as stated.
Buy a handgun from a private individual in the state of your residence. That is legal. Any situation in which a person purchases a gun from an FFL at your direction and it ends up in your posession as the result of your providing that person with money is not legal.
If you can't find a handgun you want to buy from a private seller then wait a year. For various reasons I wasn't able to buy a handgun until I was 24 even though I had wanted one as long as I can remember. I didn't enjoy waiting but that's the way things work sometimes.
Thank you, JohnKSa, for educating me a little more about Straw Purchases. Being 25 and having a squeaky-clean record, I never really bothered to look into it.
That said, I advise against my earlier suggestion--either wait until you're 21, or buy a gun from someone local, off-paper.
That said, I advise against my earlier suggestion--either wait until you're 21, or buy a gun from someone local, off-paper.
chris in va
New member
And another perspective, being a USAF veteran...
Are you living on base, in the dorms? Can't carry on base you know.
Are you living on base, in the dorms? Can't carry on base you know.
This is something that crossed my mind too, being ex-Navy and a current DoN civilian employee working on a Navy base. You need to check with somebody, base security probably being a good starting point, to find out if you're allowed to have a personal weapon on base.
The base where I work (and sometimes goof off on the computer) doesn't allow ANY personal handguns or, for the most part, personal long guns on base. The only exception is that we do have deer hunts on base where shotguns are allowed after you've jumped through the proper hoops.
The ironic thing is that one of my current projects is designing Navy/Marine/Coast Guard armories! I can build them, I just can't use them!
First I understand what is written about a straw purchase...
but I think the violation is more of lying on a government form that the actual sale... yes I know...
but here is why I feel this way... go to the ATF sight and look at the big posters they have about not doing a straw purchase .... they all emphatically state that a straw purchase is when you buy a gun to sell to a person who can not legally own it.
As mentioned... as long as a person can legally own the gun then you can buy a gun from a dealer and gift / give it to that person. My wife and I could go to a gun store and she could pick out the gun she wants and I could buy it and give it to her and this does not violate any federal law or vs/vs.
This is what I would do and it will take some time and effort. Find a local gun club and join... take part in their shooting matches or just hang out and make friends... the key to a good/legal gun sale is for both folks to know who they are dealing with.
Oh, and as a side note. I think our leaders should be tarred and feathered for their hypocrisy of letting young folks go to war at 18 but then not allowing them their full rights as citizens... I think this should either be 18 or 21 for everything including short and long gun ownership and drinking.
but I think the violation is more of lying on a government form that the actual sale... yes I know...
but here is why I feel this way... go to the ATF sight and look at the big posters they have about not doing a straw purchase .... they all emphatically state that a straw purchase is when you buy a gun to sell to a person who can not legally own it.
As mentioned... as long as a person can legally own the gun then you can buy a gun from a dealer and gift / give it to that person. My wife and I could go to a gun store and she could pick out the gun she wants and I could buy it and give it to her and this does not violate any federal law or vs/vs.
This is what I would do and it will take some time and effort. Find a local gun club and join... take part in their shooting matches or just hang out and make friends... the key to a good/legal gun sale is for both folks to know who they are dealing with.
Oh, and as a side note. I think our leaders should be tarred and feathered for their hypocrisy of letting young folks go to war at 18 but then not allowing them their full rights as citizens... I think this should either be 18 or 21 for everything including short and long gun ownership and drinking.
When an FFL accepts funds from a buyer, how the heck is he supposed to know the source of the funds? Sometimes sophomoric overthinking causes problems that don't really exist.
Have the friend go out and shoot the piece and "not like it?" Whose benefit is that for? Think the BATFE is going to assign an agent to every purchase and follow the buyer to see how long/how many rounds he/she shoots before the firearm changes hands? That's the kind of sophomoric silliness that I just can't grasp.
A straw purchase isn't illegal, unless there's a complaintant to file charges, alledging illegality.
Have the friend go out and shoot the piece and "not like it?" Whose benefit is that for? Think the BATFE is going to assign an agent to every purchase and follow the buyer to see how long/how many rounds he/she shoots before the firearm changes hands? That's the kind of sophomoric silliness that I just can't grasp.
A straw purchase isn't illegal, unless there's a complaintant to file charges, alledging illegality.
scorpion_tyr
New member
I can't answer all your questions, here are the answers I know for sure because I've been in your situation.
Assuming it's legal in the two states you named. I know for a fact it works in Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas.
You can store the weapon at the armory. They probably won't even think about looking at your DOB. Depending on your base you might have to get your 1st Sgt's signature on some forms if you'll be storing it longer than 2-3 days. He might look at the your DOB. If they do you might have to educate them on the law, be prepared to do so.
When you are able to purchase a handgun you can do so in two states. The state you are a resident of and the state where your permanent duty station is. All you should have to do to purchase a handgun off base in your PDS state is provide a copy of your PCS orders to the place you buy the gun from. If your base sells firearms at the BX you will probably have to supply them with a copy of the orders and a utility bill of somekind to prove you live off base. They generally don't sell to people living in the dorms because they think you will keep it there. Dumb? Yes because you can go off base and purchase it. All you have to do in your state of residence is show your DL or state ID, just like a civilian.
Edited: Don't do anything illegal. You have less than a year before you can buy all the handguns you want. Instead of working out trades or favors with friends to get a "somewhat legal" handgun just wait. If you want the weapon for home defense (off base) a 12 gauge pump will work just fine. I say just save up every spare penny you can until you're 21, then you can buy a really nice gun
Assuming it's legal in the two states you named. I know for a fact it works in Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas.
You can store the weapon at the armory. They probably won't even think about looking at your DOB. Depending on your base you might have to get your 1st Sgt's signature on some forms if you'll be storing it longer than 2-3 days. He might look at the your DOB. If they do you might have to educate them on the law, be prepared to do so.
When you are able to purchase a handgun you can do so in two states. The state you are a resident of and the state where your permanent duty station is. All you should have to do to purchase a handgun off base in your PDS state is provide a copy of your PCS orders to the place you buy the gun from. If your base sells firearms at the BX you will probably have to supply them with a copy of the orders and a utility bill of somekind to prove you live off base. They generally don't sell to people living in the dorms because they think you will keep it there. Dumb? Yes because you can go off base and purchase it. All you have to do in your state of residence is show your DL or state ID, just like a civilian.
Edited: Don't do anything illegal. You have less than a year before you can buy all the handguns you want. Instead of working out trades or favors with friends to get a "somewhat legal" handgun just wait. If you want the weapon for home defense (off base) a 12 gauge pump will work just fine. I say just save up every spare penny you can until you're 21, then you can buy a really nice gun
I have to agree about not breaking the law... anybody suggesting other wise on
this list is ichin for a banning.... that's why my suggestion was to make friends with folks at a gun club and then buy a gun from them....
with that said... back to the part about breaking the law.. we can take this high road and say never break the law....but then I recall a while ago .... July of 1776 a whole group of guys broke the law... to the point that if caught they would have all been hanged... we now put a picture of a number of them on our money and revere them as great.
At one time they were just a bunch of terrorist that needed to be caught and killed.
this list is ichin for a banning.... that's why my suggestion was to make friends with folks at a gun club and then buy a gun from them....
with that said... back to the part about breaking the law.. we can take this high road and say never break the law....but then I recall a while ago .... July of 1776 a whole group of guys broke the law... to the point that if caught they would have all been hanged... we now put a picture of a number of them on our money and revere them as great.
At one time they were just a bunch of terrorist that needed to be caught and killed.
TFL is not a forum for discussions on how to circumvent the law, it is a "a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."
No more ideas on how to get around straw purchase laws or discussions of the difficulty of enforcing those laws will be posted here or anywhere else on TFL.
No more ideas on how to get around straw purchase laws or discussions of the difficulty of enforcing those laws will be posted here or anywhere else on TFL.
No sir, you may NOT.
I know that you are an Airman serving this great Nation. For this, I and others thank you.
I ask you to PLEASE research well Title 18, United States Code. What you are describing is the EXACT definition of a straw purchase. Moreover, a handgun may NOT be legally sold to ANYONE under the age of 21. That is the law, and it is Federal law.
Do yourself a favor. Research the law, or better yet, give a call to ATF Compliance branch. They can explain it better to you.
Bottom line?
You've waited all this time for a handgun. Wait for just a bit more--then purchase it legally, on your own, with your own money.
- Status