1911's Suck!

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Uh hmmm...

What's a 1911? What's a Glock? What's a .45? and what's a 9x19?

I'm kinda new here, and could sure use your help with my questions...

Ok, so I know what a 9x19 is...."Blasphemer"...lol ;) :p :rolleyes:

"If it moves, shoot it...If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway..."
 
This 1911

Sucks paper out of the middle of targets and does it with out any falures.

cI11547.jpg


!911
 
Melvin, from one newbie to another, let me try to offer a feeble explanation. Caveat, I'm not even clear on the entire history of this gun, and all the nuances myself, but let me share what little I know.

The term '1911' refers to the year in which the US Armed Forces adopted a then, little known, unique design for a semi-automatic pistol in .45 caliber designed by Browning, and manufactured by Colt. At the time, it offered the attributes of power, accuracy, reliability, safety, ease-of-use, and simple maintenance. Exactly what has come to be expected of a battlefield-ready sidearm. Since then, its combat worthiness has been proven in every war the US has been involved in - WWI, WWII, and a few wars that weren't 'really' wars... and brought many a GI home from the abyss.

Over the course of nearly 100 years, many companies have designed look-alikes, work-alikes, and wannabe's. However, it has been only in recent years that the first radical, innovative design by Glock, the striker-fired weapon, emerged on the market as the most significant advance in basic design.

In the 90+ years since this weapon was designed, it has been elevated to a cult/elite status, since it works. Period. Nearly everything about it is as much as you could ever ask of a weapon. Ergonomic, functional, and with a design and lines that are now looked upon as 'classic'. Unlike the sterile look of a Glock, the 1911 style gun remains a seminal work, and case study, in engineering excellence, where the concept of 'form follows function' seems to have reached a zenith.

Since the patents expired after 75 years, many other companies have begun making 1911 style pistols, based on the original specifications. Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson, Para Ordinance, and many other vendors have their own 'spin' on how to approach the weapon, but none of them ever go too far astray from the fundamental elements of design that made this gun a classic.

Like the light bulb, and bicycle, when a design is pure enough, it doesn't change much, because it doesn't have to. Any adaptation would diminish it in some way. Like the look of a Porsche 911 or a Jaguar, its design is probably one of the single most recognized forms in history.

The general recommendation for any new shooter is that your collection is never complete without at least one 1911, which is why the FIRST gun I ordered was a 1911 by Kimber.

HTH.
 
Melvin, sorry... in the midst of my '1911 Lovesong', I forgot to answer your other questions.

.45, 9mm, .44, .357 all refer to the size of the bullet, or 'caliber'. Many of these rounds are also synonymous with a type of gun. For instance, .38 and .380 are the same bullet size, but one is designed for a revolver, the other for an automatic.

Glock is a relatively new gun maker named after it's founder, Gaston Glock, who designed the first commercially viable polymer (plastic) framed handgun, with a striker-fired ignition system, rather than the typical hammer struck weapons we normally think of. There are any number of models, in various calibers, but all operate under the same striker principle.

If anyone knows of a good FAQ for newbies, I'd enjoy reading that as well!
 
Rovert,

I'm pretty sure Melvin-Purvis' post was of the style known as "tongue-in-cheek".

On the off chance that it wasn't, however, you crafted an eloquent and informative response. :)
 
Lost?!

Well, let me get out my polymer prayer rug and tenifer altar so I can help y'all find the path to Glock Perfection!

Oh, and 1911s also make good hammers for pounding in tent stakes... if you turn 'em sideways and use the flat part of the slide... I especially like the Colt military issue models for that... {blasphemer indeed!} :D
 
Hmm thread from the dead. Where is that Wild Romulan or whatever anyway? Yep, 1911's suck...me right in. 4 and counting.
 
Re-issue of the 1911 by marines

I got a telephone call last night from a friend of mine who recently read that the marines salvaged almost 800 WW11 1911 frames and bought all brand new parts , barrels , slides, internal parts etc. and rebuilt these pistols. The red tape bureaucrats fought them tooth, nail and claw but the marines won and got their new 1911's. Why did they do this? They said they wanted the best.
 
Is the Beretta 9mm better than the 1911...heck no!
Is a Sig 220 better than a 1911..................heck YES.
Is a Glock 30 Better.....................................heck YES.
You get the idea.:D
 
HEY! HOW COME I DIDN'T POST A REPLY YET?

I own one.

It's my most expensive gun.

It is all custom.

It's my most accurate gun.

It's been 100% reliable except for that one case that wasn't shaped right but got through my (hurried and cursory) inspection before a match (took FOREVER to get that POS case out of the gun; cost me tons of time and at least two places overall).

It has a custom personal serial number.

It will NEVER rust (thank you Robar for NP3).

It taught me that the one- and two-piece guide rods need to disappear.

It has a BarSto barrel.

It points more naturally for me than any other gun I've ever fired.

It only accepts 8-rd mags (because longer mags look funny).

It's the (primary) gun I wore "Millenium-fever" night. With two spare mags.

It doesn't suck; it's kinda nice.

And no one will EVER have one like it. EVER.
 
1911s suck?

Well now, this calls for some categorical breakdown.

First, let me say that if I were to participate in a duel (pretend we lived in Victorian times with the option to possess twentieth century weapons) and I were given a choice between two firearms, a Glock and a 1911, I would choose the Glock without hesitation. Simply on account of its reliability.

Now let's get down to the nitty-gritty.

Technologically speaking, 1911s are obsolete. I know, I know...many of you diehard 1911 buffs out there are grinding your teeth and rending your clothes at this very moment; but it's a simple and irrevocable fact that the Colt/Browning architecture has already seen its heyday. A gun that needs an external mechanism to keep itself in battery is an old and tired concept. The whole idea behind the barrel bushing and spring cap is stupid too when you come to think of it. But if I were to bash this gun merely on the basis of its primitive design, I might as well bash the '57 Chevy Bel Air, or my grandpappy's jukebox, or the 1933 film release of King Kong. Some things are good in and of themselves because they are classics. That's why I own a Kimber Gold Match. But to me it's more of a showpiece than a workhorse. I confess it is the most accurate out-of-the-box gun I have ever owned; but then, I paid $1200 for it, so it oughta be! On the other hand, it is the only gun I own that consistently jams on every third or fourth round of hardball. In fact, it is the only one that jams. For whatever reason, this phenomenon seems to happen in 1911s more often than in any other type.

Then there is the cocked-and-locked issue. Beautiful for USPSA/IPSC matches, but damned risky in the personal-defense arena. Lots of ADs out there, particularly during unholstering. Too many for comfort. Unless you have to deal with safeties, DA and DAO beat the daylights out of SA---hands down.

Then there is the cost issue. The "pennies" you pay for a 1911 makes it, in most cases, prohibitive. All things considered, you're better off buying yourself something made from a more advanced and reputable blueprint, at a fraction of the price; although if you're like me, you'll own at least one 1911 you can show your friends.

So the bottom line is, 1911s suck and don't. It's all a matter of......vacuum intensity?

Cheers :D
 
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Condition one carry is NOT RISKY

With a 1911 unless your main safety (your brain) is defective. You have more of a chance of a Glock AD than a 1911 AD. All that has to happen for a Glock to AD is something to depress the trigger while holstering. For a Condition one 1911, you'd have to snick off the manual safety, depress the grip safety, and then wiggle your finger into the trigger guard to AD it. 1911's are preferred by many elite forces and the best shooters in this country. The grunts get the 92's, Glocks, etc. The hammer back just looks "politically incorrect". That's probably why I love it.
 
You have more of a chance of a Glock AD than a 1911 AD. All that has to happen for a Glock to AD is something to depress the trigger while holstering. For a Condition one 1911, you'd have to snick off the manual safety, depress the grip safety, and then wiggle your finger into the trigger guard to AD it.
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Westtexas---your brilliant analysis of the Glock and the 1911 indeed supports the issue of safety in the latter...

"while holstering" being the operative phrase.

But unless your main safety---your brain---is defective (your words), Glocks or any other non-1911 are no more dangerous than 1911s. It's when you un-holster that the best opportunity for the 1911 to go wrong presents itself, regardless or whether you are a "mindless dolt" or not. A worn or broken sear doesn't wait for you to pull the trigger. Just snick the safety, get a grip on the gun, and "BAM!!!" she goes.

1911's are preferred by many elite forces and the best shooters in this country.
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Let's see, how many elite forces am I missing? Navy SEALS, Green Berets, the Marine Corp and all SWAT teams champion the H&K, SIG or Beretta as their preferred combat sidearm the last time I checked. Also, don't forget the application. These boys aren't in the official business of "plincking at cardboard pinups" most of the time like (ehem) the experts in the field.

The grunts get the 92's, Glocks, etc.
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Rather, grunts lag behind in the race for perfection. In their confusion, they knock all other gun types.

I love my Kimber. It just ain't my best gun.
 
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Although this seems to be basically a Glock forum I fail to understand how anyone can claim the Glock is even equal to the 1911. Other people besides myself have had problems with Glock misfires using some military and even commercial ammo. Using this same ammo I have had no problems with ignition whatsoever in the 1911 9mm, Browning High Power, P99 and a Beretta 92.

Also when the firing pin channel in my Glock gets dirty the gun will also misfire. I have tried super lubricants and also no lubricant whatsoever. Although the Glock when lubricated went longer without a misfire eventually it started to do this when the channel became very dirty.

A policeman freind of mine also said that he and his fellow officers had the same problem with the glock when the firing pin channel became dirty.

Since I have never had this problem with the 1911 the only logical conclusion I have come up with is that the 1911 is the more reliable gun when firing all types of ammo under severe conditions. What other conclusion could I have?
 
Then there is the cocked-and-locked issue. Beautiful for USPSA/IPSC matches, but damned risky in the personal-defense arena. Lots of ADs out there.
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Wrong. Glocks are as succeptible if not more so than a 1911 to have an AD. Just recently a young child found out how easy it was to shoot his father (a policeman) in the back by accident and kill him.



Let's see, how many elite forces am I missing? Navy SEALS, Green Berets, the Marine Corp and all SWAT teams champion the H&K, SIG or Beretta as their preferred sidearm the last time I checked.
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Go ask a REAL Marine if that's true. The SEALS do like their SIGs, but many still prefer the 1911 given the oportunity. The MEU/SOC units have fought for years to keep their M1911A1s, and were finally given the green light recently to purchase enough parts to rebuild 789 more pistols for their use.

Yes, Glocks and SIGs are nice. But only an imbecile or a gunshop commando would state that the 1911 is obsolete. Suited for everyone? Certainly not. The best out there? Depends. Better than a Glock? Purely personal preference. But inferior to a Glock? Only if you've read too many Duane Thomas articles or like to star in movies.
 
I've been lurking on this board for a couple of weeks, and finally decided to join. You all have a good thing going here, and I'll be proud to contribute in whatever small way I can, or, more likely, just to benefit from your knowledge. I guess this post finally inspired me to jump aboard; there's deceit, information, bickering, and humor. How can you not like it! In my never-ending quest to "get a life" (not too likely), this seems like a fun detour.

Enough rambling. I really have nothing substantive to offer on this topic, except that the first handgun I ever bought was a Colt Gold Cup (Series 80, yeah I know). The thing had tolerances wider than my pe....bicep. You could wiggle the slide back-and-forth like nothing I've ever seen since. I know the dealer had a good laugh after I walked out the door. But at the end of the day, that gun kept it inside of a quarter at 25-feet, and I've only had one other gun since then that was that accurate, at least with me behind the wheel. For the record, only one FTF in about 1800 rounds, with every kind of ammo. So if that's "obsolete," you'll understand if I don't lose too much sleep over it.
 
Dsk and TimC:

Let's pretend for a fleeting moment that you didn't breech TFL etiquette, and that your use of disparaging names and inflammatory remarks didn't reveal an unresolved issue in your personality.

Convince me, if you can, that right after dumping sand on them, pouring water over them, and dropping them on a sidewalk from the top of a ten story building, you would choose a 1911 over a Glock to put down an attacker.
 
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