1911's Suck!

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"Somebody that likes a woman's gun like the 9mm WOULD think 1911's suck."

Poor 9mm 1911 owners, they must think that 1911s suck. :D
 
Jim summed it up perfectly, IMHO.

Some 1911s DO suck, but it's because of where they're made and who built them, not because they are a 1911. I learned long ago to stay with the tried and true, and not go with the cheap clone makers.

Foxy, you're right in that the 1911 was just a small, relatively insignificant element of the US war machine. However, look at all the guys who lived to see another day because they had one and the emotional attachment they've given to it. If the 1911 truly was an inaccurate, unreliable clunker its reputation would be more like that of the M1 Carbine!
 
However, look at all the guys who lived to see another day because they had one and the emotional attachment they've given to it. If the 1911 truly was an inaccurate, unreliable clunker its reputation would be more like that of the M1 Carbine!

I know a fair number of folks whose lives were saved by M-1 Carbines. They seem to think rather highly of them. Reference your own post for the reason why. ;)
 
I know a fair number of folks whose lives were saved by M-1 Carbines. They seem to think rather highly of them. Reference your own post for the reason why.

Actually, I'd like to hear some personal stories that give the above referenced "folks" high regards for the Carbine. My opinion has been tainted by individuals I've known who used them in Korea. I gather that soldiers in the hot South Pacific had somewhat better experiences with them.
 
Yeah, there's nothing worse than a nicely built 1911, I'd rather have something that is cheap looking and cheap feeling.
 
CSAY

I meant this thread to be "tongue-in-cheek". But I've noticed that some here really freak out if the 1911 is disparaged in any fashion, even in jest.

Oh well. That's what medication is for, I guess.
 
My opinion has been tainted by individuals I've known who used them in Korea. I gather that soldiers in the hot South Pacific had somewhat better experiences with them.

I heard that the reason why the M1 Carbine was liked in WWII but not in Korea was the addition of the auto-selector switch. Grunts expected to be able to spray down a target and hit them every time, and thus blamed the fact that the enemy didn't go down on the cartridge, not on the fact that their shots were going everywhere BUT the target!

...

Least, that's what I've heard :)

I'm not saying that pistols are completely useless - I know if I were a grunt, or heck, even in a war zone, I'd be packing at least a sidearm on me and would feel naked without one. But in the grand scheme of things, the 1911 didn't play as big as a role as some would make out.

I do think it is awesome to read some of the MOH citations that include the 1911. This is one of the more inspiring ones that I've read:

*BAKER, THOMAS A.

Rank and organization: Sergeant, U.S. Army, Company A, 105th Infantry, 27th Infantry Division. Place and date: Saipan, Mariana Islands, 19 June to 7 July 1944. Entered service at: Troy, N.Y. Birth: Troy, N.Y. G.O. No.: 35, 9 May 1945. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty at Saipan, Mariana Islands, 19 June to 7 July 1944. When his entire company was held up by fire from automatic weapons and small-arms fire from strongly fortified enemy positions that commanded the view of the company, Sgt. (then Pvt.) Baker voluntarily took a bazooka and dashed alone to within 100 yards of the enemy. Through heavy rifle and machinegun fire that was directed at him by the enemy, he knocked out the strong point, enabling his company to assault the ridge. Some days later while his company advanced across the open field flanked with obstructions and places of concealment for the enemy, Sgt. Baker again voluntarily took up a position in the rear to protect the company against surprise attack and came upon 2 heavily fortified enemy pockets manned by 2 officers and 10 enlisted men which had been bypassed. Without regard for such superior numbers, he unhesitatingly attacked and killed all of them. Five hundred yards farther, he discovered 6 men of the enemy who had concealed themselves behind our lines and destroyed all of them. On 7 July 1944, the perimeter of which Sgt. Baker was a part was attacked from 3 sides by from 3,000 to 5,000 Japanese. During the early stages of this attack, Sgt. Baker was seriously wounded but he insisted on remaining in the line and fired at the enemy at ranges sometimes as close as 5 yards until his ammunition ran out. Without ammunition and with his own weapon battered to uselessness from hand-to-hand combat, he was carried about 50 yards to the rear by a comrade, who was then himself wounded. At this point Sgt. Baker refused to be moved any farther stating that he preferred to be left to die rather than risk the lives of any more of his friends. A short time later, at his request, he was placed in a sitting position against a small tree . Another comrade, withdrawing, offered assistance. Sgt. Baker refused, insisting that he be left alone and be given a soldier's pistol with its remaining 8 rounds of ammunition. When last seen alive, Sgt. Baker was propped against a tree, pistol in hand, calmly facing the foe. Later Sgt. Baker's body was found in the same position, gun empty, with 8 Japanese lying dead before him. His deeds were in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Army.
 
Yep dude ! you are right. 1911's do suck! The suck the wind right out of all the other makesr sales. Hells bells even Slick and willy is trying to market a so called 1911

The 1911 is a proven design. That is why it has dominated the semi auto market for nearly a 100 years. Notice I did not say survived, I said dominated.
The 1911 will never die.
 
In a large scale war, the individual weapons used, unless grossly mismatched, have very little to do with victory or defeat. And the least used and least important of individual weapons is the pistol. There is no way to know, but I would think that in WWII fewer than a hundred soldiers (total, both sides) were killed with pistols, and less than 1000 rounds actually fired at an individual enemy. Most pistol carriers were so armed simply because no one expected them to engage the enemy, and they usually didn't.

The stories about "how I fought off the 99th Panzer Division with my .45" are stories; the few instances where the pistol actually was used are remembered simply because they were so very rare.

Stories of the use of personal pistols are also likely to be just stories. It was generally prohibited to carry other than the issue weapon; some commanders prohibited possession of captured weapons after more GIs shot themselves or each other fooling with captured pistols than were killed or wounded in combat.

Jim
 
For Mr 9X19:

The DI's in the corps used to stare down a recruit and say:

"I'm bettin' the best part of you ran down your mama's leg!"
 
bountyh,

Do tell... growing up with a USMC Infantryman (Retired, verteran of Korea, and Vietnam) for a father means I've probably heard most of the ol' sayings a time or two... you left out the part about the stain on the mattress... but thanks anyway.

:D
 
Hey 9X19,

Talking about USMC stuff, does "shot through the sheet" ring any bells?

Clem
USMC Retired
 
clem,

Hmmm... not offhand, but I'll likely visit my Dad tomorrow and I'll ask, 'til then... how about "Couldn't pour piss out of a boot..."?
 
dsk,

Actually, I'd like to hear some personal stories that give the above referenced "folks" high regards for the Carbine. My opinion has been tainted by individuals I've known who used them in Korea.

TFL'er Hard Ball, for starters. In his words, everybody he ever shot with one "promptly fell down and died". I believe this was in Korea. For more info and tales, ref. the neverending M-1 Carbine thread.
 
Now, I love the 1911, but it's not like the 1911 was our primary arm in kicking ass in two world wars. I'm sure all the bombers, tanks, artillery, battleships, rifles, etc, contributed just a bit too.

I had to laugh when I saw the scene in Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks shot the tank with his 1911 and it blew and then you see P51 flying over head.
PAT
 
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