FrankenMauser
New member
For those interested, Bruce Bertram just ran some more of the 'full length' 12 ga (12 GFH) brass a month or so ago.
There may still be some available.
There may still be some available.
12GA Rifle From Hell
- Thread starter HUBEL458
- Start date
Jackmerius
Inactive
Mr. Hubel, did you ever fire the copper jacketed aluminum core 375gr slugs from ballistic products? I know they're light for your taste, but I'm going to try my first brass case in my Ultra Slug NEF. Do you think reloader 17 is too slow for a slug this light? Should I use 4227 instead? It's a standard 3" chamber and rmc brass. What do you recommend?
Use starting load 130gr of RE17,in brass case,,in NEF, it ignites easiest.
If mild go up 5 gr at at a time..
Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''
Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.
Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.
Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..
. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.
Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .
Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed
If mild go up 5 gr at at a time..
Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''
Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.
Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.
Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..
. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.
Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .
Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed
Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done
clear up to 550 gr...
So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done
clear up to 550 gr...
So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed
Here is sectioned 585 HE case in the middle, we first made from
another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and
it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.
We could fire them many times without sides thinning..
First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too thick
of sides and sticks at high pressures..
Here is pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times
at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left. Our case is not
perfect but does work...Ed
another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and
it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.
We could fire them many times without sides thinning..
First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too thick
of sides and sticks at high pressures..
Here is pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times
at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left. Our case is not
perfect but does work...Ed
About 416 cal bullets............The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullets,
and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.
Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.
and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.
Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.
About 416 cal bullets............
The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullet,
and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are 10 to 1.......
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better
long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR.
Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,
like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less
while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............
The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10
twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....
Paul Philips was third with a 416...
GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here,
in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........ http://bertrambrass.com .. .. Caleb Hallet..
Have got another intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on,
to do speed testingwith. It is big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED
The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullet,
and 520 gr 9.5 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Some barrels I picked up are 10 to 1.......
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better
long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier 550 gr bullets for ELR.
Making bullet nose heavier makes it more stable in flight, needing less spin,
like our hollow base 585 cal minie bullets only need 48 to 1 twist, or less
while out regular 585 bullets need about 24 to 1 to stabilise them..............
The winner of the King Of 2 Mile shoot last week was using 416 Barrett with a 1 to 10
twist, with a 500 gr CEB Lazer bullet, ...Robert Brantley, with Manners Stocks....
Paul Philips was third with a 416...
GOOD NEWS-- There is now an importer and seller of our 585 HE brass getting set up here,
in US, hopefully will be in stock, few weeks........ http://bertrambrass.com .. .. Caleb Hallet..
Have got another intermediate size action besides the Montana PH our guys working on,
to do speed testingwith. It is big long REM style action that can take our 416 HSM, ED
Experimental intermediate size action with the Montana PH, for comparison.
It is an experimental action for our 416 HSM, to do our speed testing with
and get a better action than Cheytac size actions, for bigger case ELR use,
without going all way up to more expensive, huge actions.
It is big long round style action that can take our 416 HSM, almost
1.6" diameter and .800" bolt, with locking lugs nearly as big as most
BMG actions.... ED
It is an experimental action for our 416 HSM, to do our speed testing with
and get a better action than Cheytac size actions, for bigger case ELR use,
without going all way up to more expensive, huge actions.
It is big long round style action that can take our 416 HSM, almost
1.6" diameter and .800" bolt, with locking lugs nearly as big as most
BMG actions.... ED
Here is picture of the bolt from the experimental action,
with our 416 HSM case in it. Note the amount of the
base size of locking lugs, the amount of area on the bolt..
Here is link to guy doing special 585 HE in the EU,
Good pictures............www.585he.cz
We tested intermediate action with a 700HE barrel we had here.
Just temporary to test strength. 1000 gr over 3100..
Action worked fine.. Ed.
with our 416 HSM case in it. Note the amount of the
base size of locking lugs, the amount of area on the bolt..
Here is link to guy doing special 585 HE in the EU,
Good pictures............www.585he.cz
We tested intermediate action with a 700HE barrel we had here.
Just temporary to test strength. 1000 gr over 3100..
Action worked fine.. Ed.
Here is video of early water barrel test of the
12ga From Hell, from years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48zTpsgbuk
Here is picture from that video..
Here is the intermediate size action for 416 HSM with test barrel, .Ed
12ga From Hell, from years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c48zTpsgbuk
Here is picture from that video..
Here is the intermediate size action for 416 HSM with test barrel, .Ed
Jackmerius
Inactive
Mr. Hubel, I know you’ve been busy and have moved on from your shotgun projects, but I wanted to pick your brain about going hot with a 410 bore and a 210gr slug. I’m planning a rifled barrel 410 and I’d like to get a 210 grain slug up to 1,800 fps without going over SAAMI pressure. Have you played with 410, or know anyone who has? Can you recommend a powder and primer for a 210gr slug, or point me to a source who has done a 410 from hell? Thank you!
FrankenMauser
New member
No... It's more like a .730 Nitro Super-Express that never was.
Look at the velocities. It's no shotgun.
This resembles a platform that could be attached to a vehicle or fixed turret guarding an industrial or mining site in the middle of the African savanna against charging wild animal attacks. No matter if it is a charging elephant or leopard or hippo. One hit from a load like this, it is going to be one shot, one drop, one instant kill. Period. End of story. 12,000 foot/pounds with a flat nosed big game bullet? HUBEL's latest update just said that he managed to get a couple of 415-grainers clocking at 3800 feet/sec...Close to .204 Ruger velocities. This can probably take out a Soviet BT-7 light tank from the 1920's. One hit to the engine compartment and game over.
