12GA Rifle From Hell
- Thread starter HUBEL458
- Start date
Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed
We now have 416 HE, with cases ahead and
working on maybe the ultimate 416
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, ac long one pictured.
Holds 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.
necked, 2 on left, and then formed in hydro die... Ed
We now have 416 HE, with cases ahead and
working on maybe the ultimate 416
Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left.
Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, ac long one pictured.
Holds 280 gr ball powder under bullet. The
3.6" case can hold about 250gr under bullet.. In picture,
1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 He, 4th 378 WEA.
With 400gr loaded out long we get 375 HE over 3400,
Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HEHe can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , Going to do more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228.. Here are specs for 416 HE .Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" , length base to
shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.
Our 416 HSM will have about 25gr more capacity than regular 50bmg,
and as for actions if you add up the fat bolt non-bmg
actions, with .750"- .800" bolts, there are about
a dozen, some priced pretty reasonable.
Here is picture of 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed.
Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HEHe can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , Going to do more cases for these 2 sizes,
PM or email. ph 989-644-5228.. Here are specs for 416 HE .Length 3.32", belt diameter ,655", base dia .635" , length base to
shoulder 2.860" , 30 deg shoulder.
Our 416 HSM will have about 25gr more capacity than regular 50bmg,
and as for actions if you add up the fat bolt non-bmg
actions, with .750"- .800" bolts, there are about
a dozen, some priced pretty reasonable.
Here is picture of 416 HSM fireformed once,
next to bmg case we make it from and as we
improve wildcatting process next few weeks
some specs may make small changes, now from
base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed.
Jackmerius
Inactive
Hello Mr. Hubel, thank you for sharing all of your amazing and ridiculous work. There is a wealth of knowledge here that you and many others here have graciously shared with the firearms community and although this is my first post, I thank everyone for the wisdom I've picked up with all these years of reading.
Ed, I have acquired my Ultra Slug gun and will start building the NEF 12ga with 3.5" chamber which you have recommend to many of us before, as it seems to be the simplest way to get into the gnarly loads you are producing. However, what limits the NEF to only a 3.5" chamber instead of the full 12ga FH chamber of 3.85"? Would the 3.85" chamber be useless in the short 24" barrel?
Also, since we have an affordable and simple way into a big 12ga, do you have any ideas on a relatively affordable way to get into 4 bore? Are there strong, affordable actions available so that one can be purchased and a custom barrel fitted to it? The 12ga FH is very impressive, but if I'm going to do something ridiculous, might as well be -really- ridiculous! The shock and awe factor is off the scale!!
Ed, I have acquired my Ultra Slug gun and will start building the NEF 12ga with 3.5" chamber which you have recommend to many of us before, as it seems to be the simplest way to get into the gnarly loads you are producing. However, what limits the NEF to only a 3.5" chamber instead of the full 12ga FH chamber of 3.85"? Would the 3.85" chamber be useless in the short 24" barrel?
Also, since we have an affordable and simple way into a big 12ga, do you have any ideas on a relatively affordable way to get into 4 bore? Are there strong, affordable actions available so that one can be purchased and a custom barrel fitted to it? The 12ga FH is very impressive, but if I'm going to do something ridiculous, might as well be -really- ridiculous! The shock and awe factor is off the scale!!
The deal with 3,85 brass is getting some and cost, so we say it is
easier to go 3.5" as that can use up the strength of break action anyway,
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..
[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mosin2.jpg[/IMG]
easier to go 3.5" as that can use up the strength of break action anyway,
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and
410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.
They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one with
our 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have
RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,
410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..
[IMG]http://www.gunownerstv.com/585mosin2.jpg[/IMG]
Put it on old tractor rear end out here, maybe, haha
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
View attachment 758001
Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
View attachment 758001
Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book on
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
last page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.
They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....
The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,
has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,
on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..
Shooters talking more now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.
Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too fast of
powders, and the debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..
My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.
Jackmerius
Inactive
Hi Mr. Hubel, have a quick question about your NEF bored out to 8ga. What is the muzzle outside diameter? I have an older NEF Pardner 10ga that I may want to try this with, but the barrel is tapered... What is a safe muzzle thickness for the 8ga NEF?
The 10 ga we used had 32" bull bbl , about 1.070" muzzle,
It was the goose gun with long bbl, they make turkey
gun also with bull barrel that is 24"
Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed
Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..
Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,
A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....
It was the goose gun with long bbl, they make turkey
gun also with bull barrel that is 24"
Here is case measurements for our 416 HE target case
made from our 585 HE big belted case. Ed
Here is picture of 375 HE left, 416 HE next, 416 HSM right..
Here, tentative specs, 416 HSM case we are doing from bmg brass,
A 375 HE, with Lawton action, bunch being done with those .....
Here is a 375 HE target gun set up, by Asteroid Precision...
Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,
bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started
and is checking on better powder, Ed...........
https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecisi..._location=group
Here is video of it being tested... And with a 350gr bullet about 3450-3475,
bolt opened easily with one finger...And he's just getting started
and is checking on better powder, Ed...........
https://www.facebook.com/AsteroidPrecisi..._location=group
Here is recap simple setup to get faster loads with 12ga sabots
& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber
in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't
something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or
get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and
our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,
which gives 50% more energy...
585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyS9zZ8ElJA
Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,
Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed
& slugs, Example using break actions...., reaming chamber
in a 12ga break action to 3.5" with a 3.5" 12ga reamer, that isn't
something needing special order, and use 3.5" plastic cases , or
get 3.5" brass cases made. With mag shotgun primers and
our slower powder loads you can get a quarter more speed,
which gives 50% more energy...
585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyS9zZ8ElJA
Another view of Asteroid Precision's.... 375 HE target gun,
Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed
Here in picture of the cases, are shown the steps in making
our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed
We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action
between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,
375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without
having to do extreme rebating of the rim.
Here is picture of 620 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,
that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.
There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have
1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed.
This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make
them we can give he steps involved...Ed
our 416 HSM case, from BMG brass,, Ed
We might have a company that is doing a bolt gun with an action
between BMG size and longer rifle actions used for 375 HE,
375 Lethal, and Cheytacs.. To use for our 416 HSM without
having to do extreme rebating of the rim.
Here is picture of 620 hsm cases half done. Done on cnc ,
that slimmed them down, cut new rim and extractor groove.
There are over 500 more at cnc getting done now, plus we have
1000s more bmg cases we make them from, when needed.
This case is public domain and if anyone wants to make
them we can give he steps involved...Ed
Last edited:
Model12Win
Moderator
Looks like big medicine for buffler or griz.
For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..
Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....
We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr
Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..
I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.
And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..
And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..
Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....
We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...
CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr
Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..
I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.
And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..
And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..
Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases,
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.
And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be............
Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they
stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and
don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move
it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.
Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE
and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added
In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......
Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner
and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads
as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.
And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be............
Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they
stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and
don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move
it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.
Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned.. the5th one is present 585 HE
and 6th is thick sided version. 1st 600 OK which essentially nyati basic case left straight, belt added
In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run.
Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......
Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner
and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loads
as 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to
416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.