12-gauge pump or .357 lever action better for HD?
- Thread starter idek
- Start date
You won't go wrong with either. 2 3/4" shell is more than enough power and 38 spcl with LSWC or JHP bullets will penetrate flesh and ruin a bump in the night boogerman plans for the foreseeable future without worrying about your bullets effect on the neighbors.
I am a rifleman by choice, pistol man by training and my house gun is still a shotgun, go figure.
I am a rifleman by choice, pistol man by training and my house gun is still a shotgun, go figure.
How about the "click-it-y click" of a SAA revolver or double-barrel shotgun hammers? That's a pretty distinctive sound too, it's just not as loud.
The extra noise, especially the "racking of the shell" in that shotgun or chink a clink is quite distinctive and any thug/ gangster can recognize it from videos and flixs!
The extra noise, especially the "racking of the shell" in that shotgun or chink a clink is quite distinctive and any thug/ gangster can recognize it from videos and flixs!
Madcap_Magician
New member
Well, the shotgun has a good reputation for home defense, of course. But it's probably not really any better from an overpenetration point of view and could be worse. 00 buck will easily go through your walls, and there will be more projectiles, too.
Also, the muzzle flash from the .357 lever gun is probably overrated. There's a ton of muzzle flash from a 2" or even a 4" .357 mag revolver, but out of an 18" barrel, you should see complete powder burn and not as much flash.
Also, the muzzle flash from the .357 lever gun is probably overrated. There's a ton of muzzle flash from a 2" or even a 4" .357 mag revolver, but out of an 18" barrel, you should see complete powder burn and not as much flash.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
I say use the one you are comfortable with. Either will more than do the job with proper shot placement. Though in a high stress situation is when it is difficult to fine aim. I keep my WingMaster loaded near the bed. I have a .45 ACP within reach when I am in bed and need a gun as of seconds ago.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Anybody watch Michael Bane last night?
Buckshot rips right through barriers and across the street as does some handgun ammo.
Hornady Tap in an AR doesn't. That's why an 223 carbine is better than both the choices argued here. Flame on!
Yes, it may hurt you in court - so have your lawyer ready if it isn't a good shoot!
Buckshot rips right through barriers and across the street as does some handgun ammo.
Hornady Tap in an AR doesn't. That's why an 223 carbine is better than both the choices argued here. Flame on!
Yes, it may hurt you in court - so have your lawyer ready if it isn't a good shoot!
Bubba in c.a.
New member
First, they are both good choices, much better than any handgun.
On stopping power, I would lean to the shotgun at room distances.
On ease of functioning, I would lean to the shotgun but if you have more experience with the rifle action you may lean the other way.
On not having annoying rifle sights at room distances, I would lean to the shotgun.
On ease of reloading, capacity, I vote N/A. At room distances it doesn`t matter.
On cost, the shotgun is winner hands down.
On overpenetration risk, the hot 38 might be the better choice out of a rifle barrel.
I sold off all my pistol calibre rifles when I discovered that for me they had no real use--.223 works fine for anything I am likely to do.
You might also want to consider a dedicated 18" 20 ga shotgun always in its place and always loaded with buckshot and use your other one for hunting. They don`t cost much and you can get the same make and model as your other shotgun.
Another thought on ammo--the upgraded copper plated stuff that is so great a distances has a higher chance of overpenetration closeup. Plain lead pellets in a bullet that patterns well in your gun may be better at room distances.
On stopping power, I would lean to the shotgun at room distances.
On ease of functioning, I would lean to the shotgun but if you have more experience with the rifle action you may lean the other way.
On not having annoying rifle sights at room distances, I would lean to the shotgun.
On ease of reloading, capacity, I vote N/A. At room distances it doesn`t matter.
On cost, the shotgun is winner hands down.
On overpenetration risk, the hot 38 might be the better choice out of a rifle barrel.
I sold off all my pistol calibre rifles when I discovered that for me they had no real use--.223 works fine for anything I am likely to do.
You might also want to consider a dedicated 18" 20 ga shotgun always in its place and always loaded with buckshot and use your other one for hunting. They don`t cost much and you can get the same make and model as your other shotgun.
Another thought on ammo--the upgraded copper plated stuff that is so great a distances has a higher chance of overpenetration closeup. Plain lead pellets in a bullet that patterns well in your gun may be better at room distances.
Steviewonder1
New member
Neither, I will take any of my Handguns for Home Defense with either Cor-Bon DPX or Winchester Ranger T's 127GR +P+. Long weapons do not play well in close quarters. All of mine have lights on them, yes I will point a weapon at you with the light on. They are also quicker to reload when you miss.
You cant beat a shotgun for HD. with that being said I sold mine and kept my lever action.
Reason being my shotgun sat for year and years and never touched. IMHO there is no use for them at the range unless your shooting skeet and a good skeet gun is too long to be an effective HD gun.
My lever gets used at the range and its a great deer gun so I get to have fun with it and have a HD gun. Just some food for thought.
Reason being my shotgun sat for year and years and never touched. IMHO there is no use for them at the range unless your shooting skeet and a good skeet gun is too long to be an effective HD gun.
My lever gets used at the range and its a great deer gun so I get to have fun with it and have a HD gun. Just some food for thought.
first thing to do...
Is to take some steps to secure your home so no one can break in with a minimum of noise. Proper locks on the doors and windows, with the strike plates in the door frame firmly attached to the 2X4s in the wall, not just the pine door frame. Proper lighting, motion sensor outdoor lights, indoor lights on timers. House number highly visible from front and back. If someone can sneak in your house and surprise you in bed, you can have a howitzer and it won't help. Read up on home security then have both guns in accessable locations.
Is to take some steps to secure your home so no one can break in with a minimum of noise. Proper locks on the doors and windows, with the strike plates in the door frame firmly attached to the 2X4s in the wall, not just the pine door frame. Proper lighting, motion sensor outdoor lights, indoor lights on timers. House number highly visible from front and back. If someone can sneak in your house and surprise you in bed, you can have a howitzer and it won't help. Read up on home security then have both guns in accessable locations.
The question was a simple one, the OP has both guns, and wants to know the better choice between them. Therefore all answers about what to get don't help.
He said no kids, and will not be "house clearing", so both barrel length and concern about others in the house is irrelevant. He does, however have close neighbors, so penetration of walls is an issue.
"The shotgun is easier to hit with" is an old time honored statement. And even slightly true. However, in this case, its not important. With the smallest shot and the most open choke at across the room range, or at most, the length of the house, the pattern isn't going to be significantly larger than your open hand. If you are off target enough to miss with a single bullet, you are off target enough to miss with the bulk of the shot charge at inside the house range. And everyone here says bird shot isn't good for delf defense.
And, they are right, when you are talking about a couple of pellets. But with the mass of the shot still concentrated there is a considerable difference.
This is true, but again, at across the room range, it DOES NOT MATTER.
Given the situation described, waiting for the cops in your "safe" room, the shotgun is the best choice. Capacity doesn't matter much, as the odds of you shooting your gun dry are slim and none (and slim's out of town). Shortness isn't a big issue, as you are not going to be moving around in the house. Good sights are not an issue, as the range will be very short, and probably not well lit. Hunker down, and if they come through that last door, repel boarders. Your shotgun will do just fine, and due to the sheer mass of the projectiles will have as good (or better) an effect as any thing else you could use.
Slugs are not the best choice as there is about double the energy of the .44mag, and there is still enough left AFTER exiting your attacker to penetrate ordinary sheetrock walls and maybe ones next door as well.
I have one of those sweet little Marlin carbines, and its a great gun in a very good caliber for lots of things. And, if it was the only gun I had for home defense, it would serve quite well, and I would not feel un or underarmed at all. However since you do have a shotgun, I would choose it over the carbine, because of a few distinct advanges at very close range.
He said no kids, and will not be "house clearing", so both barrel length and concern about others in the house is irrelevant. He does, however have close neighbors, so penetration of walls is an issue.
"The shotgun is easier to hit with" is an old time honored statement. And even slightly true. However, in this case, its not important. With the smallest shot and the most open choke at across the room range, or at most, the length of the house, the pattern isn't going to be significantly larger than your open hand. If you are off target enough to miss with a single bullet, you are off target enough to miss with the bulk of the shot charge at inside the house range. And everyone here says bird shot isn't good for delf defense.
And, they are right, when you are talking about a couple of pellets. But with the mass of the shot still concentrated there is a considerable difference.
This is true, but again, at across the room range, it DOES NOT MATTER.
Given the situation described, waiting for the cops in your "safe" room, the shotgun is the best choice. Capacity doesn't matter much, as the odds of you shooting your gun dry are slim and none (and slim's out of town). Shortness isn't a big issue, as you are not going to be moving around in the house. Good sights are not an issue, as the range will be very short, and probably not well lit. Hunker down, and if they come through that last door, repel boarders. Your shotgun will do just fine, and due to the sheer mass of the projectiles will have as good (or better) an effect as any thing else you could use.
Slugs are not the best choice as there is about double the energy of the .44mag, and there is still enough left AFTER exiting your attacker to penetrate ordinary sheetrock walls and maybe ones next door as well.
I have one of those sweet little Marlin carbines, and its a great gun in a very good caliber for lots of things. And, if it was the only gun I had for home defense, it would serve quite well, and I would not feel un or underarmed at all. However since you do have a shotgun, I would choose it over the carbine, because of a few distinct advanges at very close range.
In this video, you see shooters who actually know how to handle a pump shot gun.
Impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9
Contrast the above with this shooter who, for some reason, decided to make a demonstration video showing us nothing but his inability to really handle the shotgun well--shouldn't knock him, I guess, I started shooting that way, too.
The Wannabe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnHdldmGPII
I'm an 870 man myself, but the Mossberg 590 works just fine. Yes, it takes practice to get the timing right, but the shotgun beats the .357 carbine hands down for those trained to use it properly.
Don't care for a 24# bbl. The 18" bbl. is much easier to use at close quarters. Barrel should be slightly over 18" to keep you out of tbl. with the Feds.
If I was going to use a short bbl. Carbine in .357, I like CorBon's DPX which is mid range between .38 +P and full power .357.
Impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9
Contrast the above with this shooter who, for some reason, decided to make a demonstration video showing us nothing but his inability to really handle the shotgun well--shouldn't knock him, I guess, I started shooting that way, too
.The Wannabe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnHdldmGPII
I'm an 870 man myself, but the Mossberg 590 works just fine. Yes, it takes practice to get the timing right, but the shotgun beats the .357 carbine hands down for those trained to use it properly.
Don't care for a 24# bbl. The 18" bbl. is much easier to use at close quarters. Barrel should be slightly over 18" to keep you out of tbl. with the Feds.
If I was going to use a short bbl. Carbine in .357, I like CorBon's DPX which is mid range between .38 +P and full power .357.
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mossy with bird shot shells. anything within 10 yards (30 ft) is dead at a center of mass shot. i use a h&r pardoner sawn down to 18 and 3/4th inches and a winchester limb saver recoil pad. i use anywhere from winchester 2 3/4 #8 birdshot to remington 3 inch #4 buckshot. birdshot for in home and buck for full wall penetration or door penetration. but if you feel more comfortable with the marlin level id go for comfort.
zxcvbob while i dont disagree with your statement about number 8 birdshot i will contest that in house most hallways and rooms are no longer than 10 yards. and at 10 yards no choke my #8 is a good enough pattern to be lethal. and the OP stated he lived in a neighborhood with houses 20 yards apart with sheet rook for walls. buckshot could be a problem for penetration of exterior walls into a neighboring house. while i myself live on a farm, no neighbors for me. means i could get away with buck with my house setup. but i dont because its not needed. thats my my thoughts. (btw this isnt to be a jerk this is just my general consensus.)