TheGreatDane
New member
orionengnr said:
You will
10MM
- Thread starter TylerD45ACP
- Start date
You will
the357plan
New member
Almost if you shoot it out of a S&W 610 revolver. The 10mm kicks noticeably more out a revolver. The semiautomatic action takes a lot out of the recoil. I have both and like both.
An unfortunate comparison because it stuck in people's minds although it was quite misleading.
What brought about the comparison was that Winchester catalogued a SilverTip load for the .41mag and another for the 10mm. The 10mm loading was pretty hot for caliber--or at least representative while the .41mag loading was very lightly loaded for caliber.
In that particular case--comparing two Winchester Silvertip loadings--one a hot 10mm and the other a very light .41mag, the 10mm came out looking very good.
In reality the .41magnum is capable of performance FAR above what is possible to achieve with any 10mm loading.
A more apt comparison would contrast the 10mm and the .357mag. They are actually very similar in capability.
If you've shot full powered .357 mags, then you should know pretty close what to expect from a 10mm. The performance and recoil are very similar, except that the 10mm's recoil is dampened somewhat by the action of a semi-auto.
I had a G20 for a while, and enjoyed it. I finally sold it, but it was a decent, fun gun.
I find it interesting that folks don't like the .40 S&W, but when you add 100-150 fps to the cartridge, it becomes the equivalent of a hand held ICBM launcher. It's suddenly a "powerhouse", and a "beast".
If you want a 10mm, then by all means get one. They're nice pistols. I wouldn't worry about the recoil at all; I found full-powered 10mm loads to be fairly pleasant from my G20. I can't imagine recoil being worse from a Delta Elite, since it's actually a heavier gun.
Daryl
I had a G20 for a while, and enjoyed it. I finally sold it, but it was a decent, fun gun.
I find it interesting that folks don't like the .40 S&W, but when you add 100-150 fps to the cartridge, it becomes the equivalent of a hand held ICBM launcher. It's suddenly a "powerhouse", and a "beast".
If you want a 10mm, then by all means get one. They're nice pistols. I wouldn't worry about the recoil at all; I found full-powered 10mm loads to be fairly pleasant from my G20. I can't imagine recoil being worse from a Delta Elite, since it's actually a heavier gun.
Daryl
troy_mclure
New member
a hot .40S&W MIGHT make 500ft/lbs muzzle energy.
a full house 10mm WILL make OVER 700ft/lbs muzzle energy.
that's the difference from .380 to 9mm, or .40 to .45acp.
random stuff about 10mm around
N350 is the best single powder choice.
Ammo got 'slowed down' because early ammo was breaking early guns. Can still happen.....
Advantage: bullet trajectory. Only. Oh, and capacity.
Any cartridge can produce a fireball at the muzzle, but most ammo gets designed to reduce it. For good reason?
The 175g Silvertip is by far the best single factory offering.
Bear get holed better by the 200g/220g FP choices; save the HP bullets for deer.
If one wishes for an effective anti-personnel bullet one need look no further than the 135g Nosler driven to 1380--1450fps.
More velocity is 'avilable', but bullet effectiveness might be compromised at higher velocity (like 1800fps
).
Muzzle energy is overall the most worthless indicator of cartridge terminal performance.
(Ooh, I like THAT one.)
N350 is the best single powder choice.
Ammo got 'slowed down' because early ammo was breaking early guns. Can still happen.....
Advantage: bullet trajectory. Only. Oh, and capacity.
Any cartridge can produce a fireball at the muzzle, but most ammo gets designed to reduce it. For good reason?
The 175g Silvertip is by far the best single factory offering.
Bear get holed better by the 200g/220g FP choices; save the HP bullets for deer.
If one wishes for an effective anti-personnel bullet one need look no further than the 135g Nosler driven to 1380--1450fps.
More velocity is 'avilable', but bullet effectiveness might be compromised at higher velocity (like 1800fps
).Muzzle energy is overall the most worthless indicator of cartridge terminal performance.
(Ooh, I like THAT one.)
Smilin Jack
New member
Lets not forget the S&W 3rd Generation platform. I have a 10mm 1006 and it's a beauty to shoot. I put a wolf 22 lb. spring in it and it shoots everything just fine, light loads, max loads, it doesn't matter. Commit yourself to reloading this round and it will give you anything you ask of it. The S&W is sweet but you're going to have to find a used one, the last ones were made in the early 1990's. I got mine off of Gunbroker. You can get an excellent one for around $600. Remember, this is a reloaders dream.......factory ammo is rather expensive when you can find it.
I'm confused by one comment you made about double stack 9mm's vs .40's ...in terms of how they fit your hands...
I have a pair of Sig 226's one in 9mm and one in .40S&W --- and they're identical in terms of size ...
I prefer a 1911 as well ...and I have a Wilson, 5", Protector model in 9mm, one in .40S&W and one in .45 acp ....and they are all great guns. I shoot the 9mm and the .45 acp more ( not sure why ) ...but I like the .40S&W as well.
For a light weight carry gun / I have a Sig 239 in .40S&W --- which I didn't expect to like / but it turns out I like very much. For a small frame gun / its very manageable in .40S&W / and I have another one in 9mm ...and I use both of them a lot to train new shooters - so they can shoot different calibers in identical platforms / same thing on the bigger 226's ...( plus I like them all as well, which is the real reason I bought them ..).
I have a pair of Sig 226's one in 9mm and one in .40S&W --- and they're identical in terms of size ...
I prefer a 1911 as well ...and I have a Wilson, 5", Protector model in 9mm, one in .40S&W and one in .45 acp ....and they are all great guns. I shoot the 9mm and the .45 acp more ( not sure why ) ...but I like the .40S&W as well.
For a light weight carry gun / I have a Sig 239 in .40S&W --- which I didn't expect to like / but it turns out I like very much. For a small frame gun / its very manageable in .40S&W / and I have another one in 9mm ...and I use both of them a lot to train new shooters - so they can shoot different calibers in identical platforms / same thing on the bigger 226's ...( plus I like them all as well, which is the real reason I bought them ..).
Really? Just to back what I said:
From Hodgdon's website (top load/velocity listings):
155 gr bullet
.40 S&W = 1283 fps (energy 566 ft/lbs, momentum 28, Taylor KO 11)
10mm = 1362 fps (Energy 638 ft/lbs, momentum 30, KO=12)
.45 ACP = 1185 fps (energy 486, momentum 26, KO = 11
180 grain bullet
.40 S&W = 1159 fps (energy=536, momentum=29, KO=11
10mm = 1287 fps (energy=661, momentum=33, KO=13)
.45 ACP = 1087 fps (energy=482. momentum=27, KO=12)
Since you used energy figures, lets go with it. Energy has nothing to do with bullet diameter, but has everything to do with velocity and bullet weight. That being the case (pun not intended), the .40 S&W actually has HIGHER energy levels than the .45 ACP. The .40's bullet will have a higher BC, SD, and the handguns typically hold more ammo.
The 10mm is that much better yet, and it's certainly an impressive cartridge, but that in no way makes the .40 S&W any less than it otherwise is.
The 10mm, at it's best (that means hotter loads than I've listed from Hodgdon's that are not "commonly available"), it's the equivalent of a full powered .357 magnum.
That's impressive, but not "awe inspiring".
As an interesting tidbit, here's how the top listed 9mm load(s) compare from the same site:
124 grain bullet
9mm 1169 fps (energy=376, momentum=20, KO=7)
147 gr
9mm 1004 fps (energy 328, momentum 21, KO=7)
Daryl
Last edited:
I have the Glock 20 and 29. You get some muzzle flip- you know you're not shooting a 40, but it's still very manageable. I have a S&W 610 as well. I haven't shot 10mm out of it yet, but I'd imagine it's going to be like a 41 mag.
On a side note, the Glock 20 I have set up with a KKM 40S&W. It was about $50 for a trigger job that took all the overtravel out. I have a 3# factory disconnector as well. I can hunt with the 10mm barrel and shoot IPSC with the 40. That crappy old 2nd generation Glock 20 is one of my favorite guns.
On a side note, the Glock 20 I have set up with a KKM 40S&W. It was about $50 for a trigger job that took all the overtravel out. I have a 3# factory disconnector as well. I can hunt with the 10mm barrel and shoot IPSC with the 40. That crappy old 2nd generation Glock 20 is one of my favorite guns.
yo, Daryl
I still have one 357 Redhawk; I sold my Glock M20.
I still have one 40 S&W.
But 'getting stupid' with both taught me I could safely drive a 200g FMJ from that Glock in excess of 1400fps.
Which is pretty fast.
180g XTP-HP at 1500.
And the Nosler 135g in excess of 1800fps (confirmed by chrono-owning customers. Like they were telling me something I didn't know).
I ain't tellin' what my 'all-stupid' ammo in the Redhawk does, but it's pretty stupid.
I can't quite get my 180g R-P JHP to 1500. Yet. But I got some AA9 data....to reach 1600fps with the 180g XTP.
Data I gave someone else
I haven't figured out a way to make the 180g 357 bullet match the diameter of its 10mm cousin. Yet.
I cannot match either with my 40, but I still get 1400+ with the light Nosler. 1300 from short Glocks (the real short ones).
In fact, both at 'stupid' are downright stupid.
I think it all qualifies as "awe inspiring".
I still have one 357 Redhawk; I sold my Glock M20.
I still have one 40 S&W.
But 'getting stupid' with both taught me I could safely drive a 200g FMJ from that Glock in excess of 1400fps.
Which is pretty fast.
180g XTP-HP at 1500.
And the Nosler 135g in excess of 1800fps (confirmed by chrono-owning customers. Like they were telling me something I didn't know
).I ain't tellin' what my 'all-stupid' ammo in the Redhawk does, but it's pretty stupid.
I can't quite get my 180g R-P JHP to 1500. Yet. But I got some AA9 data....to reach 1600fps with the 180g XTP.
Data I gave someone else
I haven't figured out a way to make the 180g 357 bullet match the diameter of its 10mm cousin. Yet.
I cannot match either with my 40, but I still get 1400+ with the light Nosler. 1300 from short Glocks (the real short ones).
In fact, both at 'stupid' are downright stupid.
I think it all qualifies as "awe inspiring".
TylerD45ACP
New member
Big Jim- Mabye it was the gun because I had a 5906 which I liked. Then held the 4006 and it felt a tad too big(at the range LEO let me shoot it). I wasn't saying the 40S&W was a poor catridge either. I think its a good SD round I personally just do not like it.(Don't really know why ) Im mean it's comparable stopping power with the 45ACP, its a good catridge. Maybe I should give another lauch platform a try. I felt the S&W MP40 and that felt excellent( first plastic pistol I have touched and liked other than the USP) I don't prefer it however.
) Im mean it's comparable stopping power with the 45ACP, its a good catridge. Maybe I should give another lauch platform a try. I felt the S&W MP40 and that felt excellent( first plastic pistol I have touched and liked other than the USP) I don't prefer it however.Ah, yes. I've been handloading since 1976, starting at the ripe old age of 10. In my "smarter years", I got pretty stupid, as well. I still push .45 Colt to higher-than-normal (SAAMI) pressures, but I digress...
My point was to compare publicly available, commonly accepted load data. This isn't about what one can "push" their cartridge to in high(er) strength firearms. That kind of discussion could go on forever.
Loading the 10mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP to the top limits of one's firearm's endurance can all eventually lead to problems...or not, depending on the care taken and the load used. That's up to the individual to determine and risk.
It was stated that:
That's misleading, at best. Proven by commonly available load data.
It MIGHT, depending on which load data is used, and one's willingness to "push things". Again, misleading.
Can't say for the .380 VS 9mm, but the .40, bases on energy formulas (chosen by this poster), is actually more powerful than the .45 ACP with max listed loads. We could include the 200 and 230 grain bullets for the .45 ACP, but using "energy" figures, the comparison gets worse for the .45. Again, misleading.
Daryl
Last edited:
TylerD45ACP
New member
Some 40 loads are more potent than 45 loads. The best 45's still get my vote over the best 40's though. I think the 45 is a slightly better stopper. The 45 can also do anything the 40 can (get light bullets at super high velocity). Overall better round, IMO.
RickB,
This is published data from http://hodgdon.com .
The same source is used for Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powders, linked from their respective websites.
I took the fastest load for each cartridge for the bullet weights used.
No bias, no tricks. Just simple information. As always, individual firearms may or may not handle top levels in handloads, but that's not the issue.
It's data that's easily checked.
Daryl
This is published data from http://hodgdon.com .
The same source is used for Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powders, linked from their respective websites.
I took the fastest load for each cartridge for the bullet weights used.
No bias, no tricks. Just simple information. As always, individual firearms may or may not handle top levels in handloads, but that's not the issue.
It's data that's easily checked.
Daryl
orionengnr
New member
Buffalo Bore
180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point - J.H.P. (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.)
On their website, they state:
"These loads bring out the full potential of the 10mm, but operate at standard pressures and as such, are safe to use in any standard 10mm pistol. Please don't phone us and ask if these loads are safe in your 10mm - THEY ARE--provided your 10mm is a normal operating pistol in good condition."
Sounds like a pretty big step up from a .40 to me.
180 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point - J.H.P. (1,350fps/M.E. 728 ft. lbs.)
On their website, they state:
"These loads bring out the full potential of the 10mm, but operate at standard pressures and as such, are safe to use in any standard 10mm pistol. Please don't phone us and ask if these loads are safe in your 10mm - THEY ARE--provided your 10mm is a normal operating pistol in good condition."
Sounds like a pretty big step up from a .40 to me.