10MM for Woods Gun?
- Thread starter jaughtman
- Start date
Mike_Fontenot
New member
Yeah, and most other 10mm guns do. I've read that supposedly Kimber's has the most support ... I've never seen any "smiles" or other bulges on my ejected brass, and I've shot DoubleTap and Underwood exclusively for the last couple of years.
Last edited:
walks with gun
New member
I see all this talk on forums about the 10mm and bears, it's the rabbits you have to worry about. I just watched a documentary by Monte Python, The Holy Grail, and was reminded how viscous these rabbit rodents can be.
I think those calibers could work but, IMO, what I like about the 10 as a woods gun is it has more versatility in loads better suited for the task plus delivers more energy downrange. There are some 10mm loads that have more energy at 100 yards than the 40 does at the muzzle.Pond said:
Dude-ski, it's obvious you don't know what you don't know.
First, there's no such thing as "overkill" in a "woods gun" chambered for the bear-stopping 10mm AUTO.
If you're packing it into the boonies on any serious trek, it should be charged up with ammo that's "heavy & fast." Otherwise, it's just a prissified large-frame .40.
Second, if a 10mm dude-ski wants to shoot .40Short-n-Wussified or .357Stigmata ammo, then all said dude-ski needs to do is to obtain aftermarket barrels in those calibers. He might get them from any number of sources, like KKM, LWD, Bar-Sto, Jarvis, etc. They make them for both the G20 & G29, and in different variations (ported/not ported, stock-length/6" "hunting" length).
Typically, these barrels are drop-in propositions, although some, like the 10mm Bar-Sto tube (with its fully-supported chamber) that I use for my hot max reloads, may need some fitting or tweaking by your 'smith.
Last edited:
Pond James Pond
New member
All very good if you have a fat wallet-ski and don't mind the extra pounds-ski on the hip....ski.
I carry a .44mag when I'm in the woods because of what lives there. If 9mm were enough, I carry that because it weighs half as much and costs a third to practice with!
Just putting options on the table!
I'm not against the 10mm but I can't see the attraction, and yes I got bit by the 10mm bug and spent a lot of money on it. I get that some just like it, and that's fine, it's a good cartridge, but having loaded for it and other cartridges as well, I'm inclined to say that anything a 10mm can do, the .40 or .45 can do just as well. My point is, name something you can absolutely can kill with a 10mm that you absolutely cannot kill with a .40 S&W or .45 ACP, it doesn't exist.
Some personal handload numbers for comparison:
G20 w/KKM 4.6" BBL = 200gr @ ~1300 fps
G23 w/KKM 4.0" BBL = 200gr @ 1,155 fps (~1200 fps from 4.5" G22, ~1250 fps G35 KKM)
G21 w/KKM 4.6" BBL = 250gr @ 1,050 fps (ACP)
G21 w/KKM 5.0" comped BBL = 255gr @ 1,325 fps (.45 Super)
For a semi auto woods gun, nothing more than a .40 or .45 is needed. If you might encounter something LARGE and dangerous, buy a revolver, starting at .41 Mag on up. There isn't anything wrong with the 10mm, but on the one hand for the money I don't see it giving much of and advantage at all over the .40/.45 and on the other hand it falls well short of .41 Mags and .44 Mags.
Some personal handload numbers for comparison:
G20 w/KKM 4.6" BBL = 200gr @ ~1300 fps
G23 w/KKM 4.0" BBL = 200gr @ 1,155 fps (~1200 fps from 4.5" G22, ~1250 fps G35 KKM)
G21 w/KKM 4.6" BBL = 250gr @ 1,050 fps (ACP)
G21 w/KKM 5.0" comped BBL = 255gr @ 1,325 fps (.45 Super)
For a semi auto woods gun, nothing more than a .40 or .45 is needed. If you might encounter something LARGE and dangerous, buy a revolver, starting at .41 Mag on up. There isn't anything wrong with the 10mm, but on the one hand for the money I don't see it giving much of and advantage at all over the .40/.45 and on the other hand it falls well short of .41 Mags and .44 Mags.
Last edited:
Mike_Fontenot
New member
.45ACP is around 500 ft-lbs. 10mm is around 700 ft-lbs. .44mag is around 1200 ft-lbs. If a very angry bear is trying to make me lunch, or if a drugged-up 240 lb bad guy is trying to make me history, I'm going to want the most ft-lbs I can deliver at that instant. Fewer ft-lbs might solve those problems, or more ft-lbs might not solve those problems, but I know that I'll still WANT to have as many ft-lbs available as I can have.
The 10mm is a fine round and it particularly shines if you are a hand loader. The 10 runs at higher pressure than either a 357 or 40 so it is has that edge as well. When you get up to the 200 grain bullets, the 10mm has about 2X the space for powder as a 40. Heavy bullets with the higher SD also deliver the best penetration which is a good thing for dangerous, large animals.
Ft lbs arent really the only aspect to consider. You are talking bear, and people, as if the same loads were appropriate for both, and that more ft lbs were automatically better for both. If you are using FMJ or solid hard cast bullets for bear, the extra ft lbs isnt doing much good on bad guys, its just poking holes without much tissue disruption. The ft lbs means little in that case. A 9mm or 40 with good grade modern hollow points is likely to be more practical and effective than the 10mm with solids. Overall tissue damage is the bottom line on a bullets effectiveness in people protection. We like solids for large animals because they can penetrate deeply and break large bones. Expanding pistol bullets often break up on heavy bones or seriously compromise penetration. This is the opposite of what we generally want for people protection. The ft lbs mean little in that discussion. By the same token, an expanding 10mm bullet of poor construction may be inferior to a solid 9mm or 40 for deep penetration and bone breaking ability, even though the paper ballistics says its hot stuff.
An Alaskan guy on another forum has worked with the 10mm a fair amount. Hes had trouble with the heaviest loads on the market (220 gr?) working reliably in the 8 or 10 Glock 20's and 29's he and his wife have. If relying on such boutique loads, shoot a couple hundred rounds and be sure your gun works reliably with them, otherwise you are gambling, and throwing out whatever supposed advantage the caliber and capacity is giving you. Hes messed with the Colt 10mm and figures them to be reliable, he just doesnt care for them as much for all around carry guns in the bush. Hes also worked with a couple of the 10mm stainless Smith&Wessons, with less than acceptable(to him) results as far as reliability. I believe at this point hes moved on to the H-K USP in 45 auto cal. They work as is with 45 super, and still shoot 45 auto for practice loads.
Last edited:
It has more to do with what caliber in this class has the most advantage.... as I stated earlier the 10 as a "woods gun" has more options available in commercial loads better suited for the task that deliver more energy downrange. There are some 10mm loads that have more energy at 100 yards than the 40 does at the muzzle. The smaller sectional density with the higher velocity means it should penetrate thick skinned heavy boned animals (like bear) better at close range and the higher energy at 100 yds is a better contender for hunting and self defense where in the woods one is more likely to be up against longer shots and heavier clothing.Ruger45LC said:
its not that other calibers wouldn’t work its that the 10 has more of an advantage, all other factors being equal.
And in doing so there would be 2 other trade-offs - both of them negative:
First is capacity - the .41 & .44 mag wheelguns are 5 or 6-shot platforms;
Second is their boat-anchor weight - you're toting around a lot of steel in relation to that limited, on-board firepower.
Comparing those negatives to what a stock, hot-loaded 15+1 G20 offers you for a portable woods gun, well, the choice is clear.
When it's time to head into the backwoods and boonies, the 6-shot boat anchors stay in the safe, and the G20 holsters up on your hip or chest, along with a couple of spare 15-rd mags.
Works for me ...
Yes, anybody can cherry-pick data using their tailored handloads, especially when a custom, longer-than-stock-length .40 barrel is involved.
And as far as factory .40 ammo using a 200gn bullet, only McNett at DT makes one. It's a 200gn XTP @ 1050fps, as chrono-ed out of a G22.
While that's a decent "heavyweight" load for a .40, the same bullet-weight in 10mm, shot out of a stock G20, easily does 200fps-250fps better.
Last edited:
A typical 41-44 magnum revolver would have a Big accuracy advantage as the distance increases do to a much superior trigger action over a G20. If the situation deteriorates to the point of the guns muzzle being shoved into something really big then good luck with a semi-auto. But as the OP said before Big Bears are not one of his concerns so standard high power 10mm loads should be plenty. No one feels that a boutique high power load could result in reliability issues? I would think that for hunting they( the boutique loads) would be fine but I would take standard full power ammo for firearm and functioning dependability as a defense package.
Last edited:
By "boutique," do you mean a small family-owned ammo business with sloppy quality-control?
If Black Hills Ammo - which held the contract to supply the U.S. military with "boutique" 5.56mm 77gn MOD 1 rifle ammo - had turned out "iffy," unreliable ammo, they'd have been put out of that contract fast.
If anything, the QC is likely to be higher at the smaller family-run operations because the downside risk of losing critical business is huge - much greater than with the established big boys, like Remy, Federal or Winchester.