your only gun: Bulg.Mak or Kel-tec?
- Thread starter Mozart
- Start date
I sold the Maks I had, since cheap, non-reloadable, ammo was their best feature. 
I have both and would rely on the Mak first -- I have used it longer. However, Mak is HEAVY and for carry P11 would be better (lighter, less rust). I am undecided but *availability* of 9x19 would make P11 a better long-term choice...although I still *like* the Mak better. There, clear as mud 
[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited June 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited June 19, 2000).]
Nothing I ever fired from my Makarovs even came close to the velocity of standard pressure loads from my Kel-Tecs and Glock 26.
The 9x18 makarov, limited by it's blowback nature, is much closer (really close) to the 9x17 (.380) than it is to the 9x19. FWIW
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
The 9x18 makarov, limited by it's blowback nature, is much closer (really close) to the 9x17 (.380) than it is to the 9x19. FWIW
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
Mozart,I`d guesstimate the DA pull on the Bulgarian Mak. I shot to be around 15lbs. with some stacking. Now remember this is the only Mak I`ve ever shot so some may be better ,maybe much better I dunno. This one was heavy enought that my buddy who shoots more SA revolvers than anything else couldn`t hit anything worth a darn unless he cocked it first. I did okay with it in DA mode but I had to work at it some. In SA mode it was suprisingly accurate though. I`ll probably get a Mak myself oneday,I just wouldn`t pick it over my trusty Keltec for a daily carry gun. Marcus
MarcusMozart (great name BTW)
The Kel_Tec should be able to handle ANY properly loaded +P or even +P+... though I NEVER recommend +P+. Polymer frames may actually do better with high-power ammo than aluminum frames because plastic can GIVE a little where metals BANG.
How 'bout them apples?
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
The Kel_Tec should be able to handle ANY properly loaded +P or even +P+... though I NEVER recommend +P+. Polymer frames may actually do better with high-power ammo than aluminum frames because plastic can GIVE a little where metals BANG.
How 'bout them apples?
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
Mozart. I don't find the DA trigger heavy at all on my East German Mak. It is much heavier on my S&W 686+ (trigger broken in but not modified). My guess is that the DA trigger on my Mak is ~10 lbs, maybe a little less. It exhibits no stacking and is extremely smooth. (The East German Maks are "pre-owned" so they come with triggers already broken in.) The only problems with the trigger, in SA or DA, are the considerable take-up before resistance occurs and the overtravel. For $200 after taxes I think it's a darn good trigger.
Mak suggestions for concealed carry:
Get one with fixed sights, the adj. sights are bulky.
Should you decide to get aftermarket grips, choose the Makwrap brand. These are thin, versus the Pearce grips which add a lot of bulk. Check www.makarov.com for supplies.
The Mak is heavy. No way around it. But it is VERY reliable and quite accurate. I only wish it had a little more punch.
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NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC
Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our only "No compromise" gun lobby. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
Get one with fixed sights, the adj. sights are bulky.
Should you decide to get aftermarket grips, choose the Makwrap brand. These are thin, versus the Pearce grips which add a lot of bulk. Check www.makarov.com for supplies.
The Mak is heavy. No way around it. But it is VERY reliable and quite accurate. I only wish it had a little more punch.
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NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC
Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our only "No compromise" gun lobby. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
Chronographed some Corbon 9X18 Mak's the other day. Can't remember the exact velocity but as I recall it had the approximate fpe of a .38 Spcl. Since this cartridge worked in law enforcement for a lot of years, I'm confident the Mak will get the job done for most situations a private citizen would get themselves into. Besides you have 9 rounds to work with instead of 6. regards, birdman
I have both.
I carry the KelTec most every day, much lighter, smaller, and can hold 2 more of a more powerful round.
That said, when I'm at the range I don't shoot it as it isn't fun (except to run the carry ammo through it every couple of months). Lately almost the only pistol that I've been shooting is my Mak because it is just so much fun.
If you can only get one and don't plan on shooting much then go with the P-11. If you plan on taking it to the range and practicing quite a bit then go with the Mak. (and realisticaly I doubt if I would feel under gunned with 9 rounds of 9x18 vs. 11 of 9x19)
I carry the KelTec most every day, much lighter, smaller, and can hold 2 more of a more powerful round.
That said, when I'm at the range I don't shoot it as it isn't fun (except to run the carry ammo through it every couple of months). Lately almost the only pistol that I've been shooting is my Mak because it is just so much fun.
If you can only get one and don't plan on shooting much then go with the P-11. If you plan on taking it to the range and practicing quite a bit then go with the Mak. (and realisticaly I doubt if I would feel under gunned with 9 rounds of 9x18 vs. 11 of 9x19)
Jody Hudson
New member
I got rid of my Kel because it was NOT accurate or reliable. I wish it were! Because of those two deficiencies not only was it no fun to shoot -- it might not have been any fun at all should I have needed it for anything. The ONLY good thing about it was that it was light and thin!
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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.
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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.
Walt Sherrill
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben:
Mozart (great name BTW)
The Kel_Tec should be able to handle ANY properly loaded +P or even +P+... though I NEVER recommend +P+. Polymer frames may actually do better with high-power ammo than aluminum frames because plastic can GIVE a little where metals BANG.
How 'bout them apples?
Ben
[/quote]
Well, actually, the Kel-Tec doesn't have a polymer frame. It has an Aluminum frame with a polymer cover. The cover can be pulled off (which you have to do when you fluff and buff) and it can be replaced with one of a different color. The polymer does provide some strength and rigidity, though -- so I guess its kind of a hybrid.
As someone else noted, the P-11 can handle +P quite well. (The same basic gun with a slightly modified slide, handles .40 cal with no problem.)
I'd go with the P-11 for carry, and something else for fun. The Makarovs I've shot are OK, but less pleasant to shoot, in my thinking, than the P-11. (The P-11s are hard to shoot well, but can be VERY accurate, indeed. Its more the shooter than the gun, and its a lot of practice to get good. I've never gotten past fair-to-middlin' with mine.)
Mozart (great name BTW)
The Kel_Tec should be able to handle ANY properly loaded +P or even +P+... though I NEVER recommend +P+. Polymer frames may actually do better with high-power ammo than aluminum frames because plastic can GIVE a little where metals BANG.
How 'bout them apples?
Ben
[/quote]
Well, actually, the Kel-Tec doesn't have a polymer frame. It has an Aluminum frame with a polymer cover. The cover can be pulled off (which you have to do when you fluff and buff) and it can be replaced with one of a different color. The polymer does provide some strength and rigidity, though -- so I guess its kind of a hybrid.
As someone else noted, the P-11 can handle +P quite well. (The same basic gun with a slightly modified slide, handles .40 cal with no problem.)
I'd go with the P-11 for carry, and something else for fun. The Makarovs I've shot are OK, but less pleasant to shoot, in my thinking, than the P-11. (The P-11s are hard to shoot well, but can be VERY accurate, indeed. Its more the shooter than the gun, and its a lot of practice to get good. I've never gotten past fair-to-middlin' with mine.)
That's cool. How do you take the polymer off the gun? Seems like a strange thing to have to do. I've heard that several polymer pistols have metal skeletons, but I didn't know you could take it off. What about Glocks... I know they have Metal slide rails inserted into the frame. My Ruger P-95 actually has polmer RAILS that hold the slide on.
Thanx for letting me in on this,
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited June 23, 2000).]
Thanx for letting me in on this,
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited June 23, 2000).]
Ben,
To remove the polymer grip from the aluminum receiver block: Remove the three cross pins and unlatch the mainspring from the bottom of the frame (pull the plug that the mainspring attaches to down to unlatch it and then move it into the mag well).
Looking at the exploded parts diagram at www.kel-tec.com/p11-40-parts.html might help.
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
To remove the polymer grip from the aluminum receiver block: Remove the three cross pins and unlatch the mainspring from the bottom of the frame (pull the plug that the mainspring attaches to down to unlatch it and then move it into the mag well).
Looking at the exploded parts diagram at www.kel-tec.com/p11-40-parts.html might help.
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
Walt Sherrill
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben:
That's cool. How do you take the polymer off the gun? Seems like a strange thing to have to do. I've heard that several polymer pistols have metal skeletons, but I didn't know you could take it off[/quote]
Typically, you don't take it off -- for most guns with polymer frames are just that: guns with Polymer frames. The Kel-Tec P-11 (and the others P-40 and P-32) are a little different.
Got to WWW.KTOG.ORG for step by step instructions, etc.
That's cool. How do you take the polymer off the gun? Seems like a strange thing to have to do. I've heard that several polymer pistols have metal skeletons, but I didn't know you could take it off[/quote]
Typically, you don't take it off -- for most guns with polymer frames are just that: guns with Polymer frames. The Kel-Tec P-11 (and the others P-40 and P-32) are a little different.
Got to WWW.KTOG.ORG for step by step instructions, etc.
glockorama
New member
Good choice Mozart.
I don't own a mak but they are neat looking. Kinda strange actually. My p11 and p40 are absolutely reliable after some fluff and buff and about 2k rounds in it so far, mostly with the 9mm. The p40 is a conversion on my p11. I melted my slide and had it parkerized. Way cool looking and in my opinion makes the mak look ugly. The keltec is a great design and I don't think there has been a pistol design in the last few decades that has such an excellent design. now only if keltec had CNC's like sig or kahr. Then it would be THE best CCW made. P11 also has the advantage of being able to use most S+W mags from mecgar and factory. I have up to twenty, yes twenty(mecgar S+W 5906) Looks silly but works fine. My favorite is the S+W factory 6906 12 rd mag. only sticks out about a half inch and Keltec has a gap filler peice to make the grip nice and comfy. I'm currently looking for the 357sig conversion barrel for the p40 slide. 357sig ROX so does 9mm. Go KELTEC...it must be good if Wolf is now making springs for them. Kel tec is here to stay. Maybe this will make Glock take notice and put their frames on a diet, other wise I'll have to bust out the coarse wood rasp and start hackin away!