Your Advice Saved Me From An Attack

I've learned a lot, but I think the biggest thing I learned was how I reacted to the fear. It was hard to snap myself out of the disbelief and take action rather than just stand their like an idiot.
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That is not an uncommon response. Probably related to some deep primal "Freeze and the lion won't see me!" urge I think.

As someone already mentioned, stress innoculation is very difficult to acquire in a training environment but well worth the time. I know some of the Force-on-Force I've done with Simunitions probably ranks as some of the most valuable training I've ever done. I still think about the lessons I learned there and I did some STUPID things.

You handled yourself well in a real world situation with real world consequences - and you were interested in handling the situation better after achieving one of the best possible outcomes in that scenario. So you deserve a lot of credit for all that... but in terms of risk management, you can do better. One of the great things about these forums is the ability to discuss actual scenarios and how they might have been handled better and form mental patterns to use so that you aren't deep in the middle of a tough situation and desperately digging through your brain to find some kind of answer that might help you.
 
Not real life of course but we go through a few scenarios in our matches. I've been pressing them to use the approaching rail target for a while, maybe at an angle.

One reason why I started carrying was a 'correcting parent' driver that felt my driving lights were not to his liking. Nerdy, geek looking guy followed me down I-66 one night, right into a brightly lit gas station. We called the cops while still on the road and we all had a little get together. I got reprimanded for my lights, he got a chewing out for stalking us.

I didn't have a permit yet but it was one of two reasons for getting it.

Oh, and incidents like this never make it to the news, but it happens thousands of times a year. They sure do capitalize on ____ that shoot up theaters and schools though.
 
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One thing that has not been commented on here (except post 32 by kilimanjaro) is the fact that you did not shoot.

What you did was commit assault, but it was so clearly justifiable that the officer was able to decide not to charge you... no arrest, no bail, no indictment, no trial, no REALLY EXPENSIVE lawyer bills, no missing year of your life (assuming you are acquitted).

Anytime someone can resolve a situation with justifiable assault (a threat to shoot) versus justifiable homicide, it is to their great advantage to do so. It is a lot easier to justify the threat of lethal force than it is to justify the application of lethal force.

Jim
 
btmj said:
What you did was commit assault,
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The exact definition may vary by jurisdiction but what the OP did certainly was not "assault" in NY law. All forms of assault in NY require physical harm.

I don't see any section of NY Penal Code that would prohibit what the OP did. Preparing to defend yourself in the face of an obviously imminent assault is not illegal.

Of course, neither NY law (nor your state laws unless you're in the same state as the OP) really applies here.
 
Whether we want to call it 'justifiable assault' or 'toe jam seahorse', the important thing to key in on is that his actions were justified. His decision making applied the correct filter, and it had a happy ending.

Keep it simple. Make choices geared toward preserving well being. Sleep well at night.
 
Wouldn't the closest thing to what the OP did be "brandishing"? Far cry from assault. I'm not saying it was brandishing, just saying IF the cop decided to try and screw him over, I feel like brandishing would be the closest thing to fit the bill.
 
One of the major reasons I called the police in this situation was because I didn't want the other guy to call the police first and tell them that I had brandished a firearm. I knew I was justified, but I wanted to be the first to call, just in case. The police officer told me that they grip their guns all the time without drawing. Just in case they do need to use lethal force. I asked him if it was considered brandishing, but he didn't really give me a straight answer. He just said it was the right thing to do.

I'm sure it would technically be considered brandishing, and under different circumstances I would be charged. In this case, I'm guessing it's justifiable brandishing (if that is a real term)
 
One of the major reasons I called the police in this situation was because I didn't want the other guy to call the police first and tell them that I had brandished a firearm.
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Wise choice. You should contact the police at the first opportunity any time you have taken actions to stop or avoid an attack. Every time, no matter what.

"Brandishing" is illegal. If you were legally justified in your actions, you were not "brandishing" in that sense. Just because someone knows you have or sees your firearm doesn't automatically mean "brandishing". For some reason, that word seems to have become a catch-all for any time someone else knows or sees or you touch your gun.

Many states don't even use the term nor concept of brandish(ing).
 
Glad everyone is Ok.

I had a similar incident a while ago. I just calmly kept driving around a neighborhood like I was lost till the guy got tired of following and he took off. :D


Always stay in the vehicle if you can. You may want to incorporate vehicle training into your practice routine; I.E using your left hand to get your seatbelt off and clearing your shoulder. I do this now without thinking about it. Drawing and clearing the wheel and etc.
 
Wouldn't the closest thing to what the OP did be "brandishing"? Far cry from assault. I'm not saying it was brandishing, just saying IF the cop decided to try and screw him over, I feel like brandishing would be the closest thing to fit the bill.
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In my state, brandishing is "to wave weapon about, menacingly." Simply putting your hand on it defensively need not apply. Clearly though, the road-rager DID commit assault.
 
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splinter MBA said:
He just said it was the right thing to do.
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There is a specific reason why I keep banging this drum.

A friend of mine was in a publicized incident where somebody tried to rob the shop while he was alone behind the counter. I'm not going into the specific contributors, but it is relevant to this conversation to say that he told me bluntly that he caught himself hesitating in the moment because of the Zimmerman case. During that period, he neglected to notice the knife the bad guy had out.

It is absolutely to all of our benefit to adopt a clear mode of operation before hand, so that we are not frozen in the moment.

Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. That's it.
 
I am glad you and your family are ok.

I wanted to point out that I believe being proactive is the right thing to do. In a situation that you are not trained in or given in depth thought about, sometimes an automated reaction is not there.

About 4 years ago, I was trying to diffuse a situation with a person. He was a small guy only slighly smaller than me and seemed very calm. He was giving me attitude slighly earlier and I was trying to calm him down. After I thought all was good and well, I went to shake his hand. At this point he grabbed my right hand while simultaniously grabbing a glass bottle, he apparently had in his back pocket. While shaking my hand he broke it across my head. (Trust me, they dont break like in the movies) This had totally dazed me and I saw the bottle come across my face. All I felt was warmth rushing down my face. He then came at me to stab me. All I could do, the only reaction I had was to shove him backwards and yell "STOP!" Honestly, had he not stopped and walked off right there, I dont know that I could have defended myself or survived his assault for that matter.

70 something stitches a centimeter away from my eye taught me to be prepared and always be proactive. Even working armed security, I have been surprised too many times. It takes too long to mentally click on what to do after you are already behind and being assaulted.
 
Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. That's it.
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Depends upon State and Local laws: My state (and possibly others) also adds "Preclusion"- you had no other viable alternative to use of Deadly Force. This does not apply everywhere- you are not obliged to retreat from your home or lawful place of business ..... YMMV.
 
Calling the police right away was VERY smart. I've heard more than once that LE tends to treat the first person who calls as the victim due to the automatic assumption that an innocent victim will immediately want the police to come to the scene while the culprit won't want a police presence.

Being on record as the one who called for emergency help is very good for a self-defense case. I don't think its value can be over-emphasized.

Space is your friend. Your car is generally a better way to create space than your feet.

I don't know what the laws are in your area, but in my state, a person would be justified in drawing/displaying a handgun under circumstances where the use of force would be justified by law. "Force" is a lower level of response than "deadly force".

Here's what TX says about displaying a weapon: "The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force."

When can you use force? According to TX law, "a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force." So if you reasonably believed that the other person was attempting to use unlawful force against you, you would have been justified in TX, in drawing your self-defense firearm.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm#9.31
 
JohnKSa wrote;
When can you use force? According to TX law, "a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force." So if you reasonably believed that the other person was attempting to use unlawful force against you, you would have been justified in TX, in drawing your self-defense firearm.
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While John's advice is sound and, you should be familiar with your local laws concerning use of force and "brandishing" Do not let this confuse the issue.

In your situation, a reasonably larger man was closing distance between the two of you ( and your family ) rather quickly, he had already made his intentions known by his posture and demeanor, thus ; you have an obvious "disparity of force" already in motion. You could not retreat safely without leaving your family un-protected, the only reasonable response was to draw your firearm and, prepare to defend yourself. All those actions pass the "reasonable man" test. Even in a State that has "brandishing" laws, it is better to have performed as you did and, possibly had to explain yourself in court than to hesitate and become a potential victim. The guy saw that you meant business and broke off his attack, that is the most desirable outcome anyone could hope for IMHO.
 
In my state, brandishing is "to wave weapon about, menacingly." Simply putting your hand on it defensively need not apply. Clearly though, the road-rager DID commit assault.
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Also, I'd like to point out that whether he pulled the gun out or not, if his attacker saw it, he could lie and say the gun was drawn, or even that it was pointed at him (assault). It's better if the crook never saw it. (Yeah, he could still lie, but if the cop asks what the gun looks like, he has no idea.) And of the crook saw it, police need to know YOU are the victim.
 
Wow, given some of the responses to the OP, I would not be surprised if next time his thread title is : "Your Advice Caused Me To Be Attacked"

Instead of reacting to the situation at hand, he may be standing around wondering... Am I "brandishing" if I draw ? Am I about to be the victim, or am I committing an "assault" ? Should I ? Would I ? Could I ? Meanwhile the BG is closing distance quickly !

Honestly splinter MBA, don't let all the Monday morning quarterbacking lead you into second-guessing yourself, obviously your response, and the outcome suggest you performed quite well under the given circumstances.

Knowing your State laws, and your own limitations however is never a bad thing.
 
Wow, given some of the responses to the OP, I would not be surprised if next time his thread title is : "Your Advice Caused Me To Be Attacked"

Instead of reacting to the situation at hand, he may be standing around wondering... Am I "brandishing" if I draw ? Am I about to be the victim, or am I committing an "assault" ? Should I ? Would I ? Could I ? Meanwhile the BG is closing distance quickly !

Honestly splinter MBA, don't let all the Monday morning quarterbacking lead you into second-guessing yourself, obviously your response, and the outcome suggest you performed quite well under the given circumstances.
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Obviously. But he asked for some feedback, and he's getting it. The point is not to get him to second guess himself when he's looking at the elephant, but to be better prepared for next time, so he doesn't second guess himself.
 
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