You think shoot sub-moa all day long huh

T

tangolima

New member
See for yourself.

https://youtu.be/I8jXisOSOns?si=wIjeWH2Y6NgDKlVf

I have been training myself to do something like that. To hit a target of certain size in the field, at 150yd, 300yd and beyond. It ain't easy as people have told you.

For some reason, it makes me recall the sign at the front door of Bass Pro.

"Welcome fishermen, hunters, and other liars"

The best I have done is 1.2 moa at 300yd with >50% hit rate. That's with a .243 win AR10 on bipod. I may do slightly better with a bolt gun.

Sometimes I do conflate my stories [emoji1].

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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stagpanther said:
Accuracy and consistency--that's match grade shooting, not simple grouping.
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I have seen the definitions, but I always mix them up. To me accuracy is the probability of hitting the intended target. A tiny group on target is hitting the target consistently. A tiny group off target is missing it consistently. Depending on the distance and caliber, ability to dope the wind override the capability of the gun.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Accuracy with a firearm involves three things. The gun, the ammo, and the shooter.

To be considered accurate, the ammo, and the gun have to be consistent, AND produce groups satisfactory for the intended use, as a mechanical function, independent of the shooter.

Hitting the target is dependent on the accuracy of the shooter. And there's where the most variation usually comes from.

"Accuracy" is a combination of multiple factors combining well enough to satisfy the shooter, every time.

Guns that shoot small groups make the shooter's job easier, but they do not, and can not do the job entirely on their own. A poor shot with a hyper accurate gun is still a poor shot.
 
All the participants in the video seemed very confident. They missed the small circle and proceeded to shoot the group anyway. There were few, if any, that were small enough to fit into that circle, despite the large sum of award money. That's surely surprising!

What gives? The shooters must be as surprised as I was. They didn't go there to make fools out of themselves. I think they stumbled over the changed environment. Their favorite bench wasn't there. It was hot. The sun was bright with no shade. Wind was crazy ... When we are pushed outside our comfort zone and put under stress, we tend to cut corners to get the trouble over with. I saw a lot of bipod hop for example. They might have forgotten preloading the bipod.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I will admit straight away that most gun videos annoy me, but I have a decent handle on why they annoy me and this is mostly a "me" problem. I tend to keep this as a non-problem by hardly ever watching gun videos.

I watched this one. It was entertaining. A couple things annoyed me. I think it's an extremely poor decision to shoot without eye protection, and it sure seems like many or most did exactly that. They also polluted the screen saying that the minor had adult supervision (probably some carp required by the commie YouTube) but the adults failed to have proper eye protection for the minors.

I did not like that the guy running the show was right there in the shooter's face. His money, his challenge, I suppose he could be wherever he wanted to be, but I found it annoying.

I was entertained. It was worth what I paid to see it. :D

As to the meat & potatoes of the challenge! I absolutely understand and respect what the author is talking about here and what he's aiming for. I myself would never describe myself as a serious rifle guy, however as I've said numerous times, I thoroughly enjoy an annual prairie dog hunt and that's 3 full days in the field, typically about 500 rounds sent toward the target and my personal "feel" for success, entertainment and enjoyment is off the charts.

It is difficult to put real numbers on my rate of success simply because if I only took the 150 and under shots, I would probably have a ridiculous rate of success, but taking the 400 yard shots is very enjoyable, challenging and it makes me better at what I'm doing.

Hitting a prairie dog at 150 yards does NOT take the same level of precision that is in demand for the challenge laid out in this video. However, making the kills at longer distances does.

Perhaps I could challenge myself to make five consecutive kills on 300 yard or longer prairie dogs to see if I could pass the test? This is not likely to ever happen... because that's just not how we hunt them.
 
In a way the 100yd challenge could be more challenging than shooting prairie dogs at longer distance. The first shot misses you flunk already, while in the prairie dog hunt you can adjust the dope / hold and follow up. However still, the groups were surprising.

The distractive presence of the host? That was part of the out-of-comfort zone stress. Absence of eye protection? I think they didn't wear when they shot by themselves anyway. They probably would do even worse if they were made to wear them.

-TL



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My friend Mike (Bloke on the Range) currently has a 1 MoA All Day Long Challenge running through the end of August.
I suggest participating, even if you aren't sure that the rifle will make the cut.
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What is a mulligan? Is this strickly OEM rifles--untouched or unmodified? Does this exclude anny sighters or foulers--in other words go out and shoot only 10 rounds from cold bore? That would be quite a challenge.
 
Well, if they are talking an OEM rifle without user mod, and going out with 10 and only ten cartridges and shooting them from a cold bore and grouping MOA or under (I assume using factory ammo)--yeah, I'd like to see that too. But that's really a swipe at manufcturer's claims and not consumer shooter's fish tales IMO.;) I can't understand everything he's saying--(it's that heavy Texas accent LOL) but it sounds like he's saying 1 sighter per rifle up to 3 rifles and the only restrictions are 10.5 pounds and shot off the shoulder. Is that your take Franken? I have one and only one totally OEM rifle--and it's a consumer grade under $1,000 at that (and they don't even make an MOA claim as far as I know), that I thinkmight get close but by far the biggest variable would be me--not the rifle or ammo.

I checked a few of my better rifles, that 10.5 lb limit is a tough one if I also include my high-power higher-quality scopes and scope rings, so I would need to compromise and use a lower quality lightweight scope set-up.

Sounds like fun, I'lll give it a go.:)
 
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What is a mulligan? Is this strickly OEM rifles--untouched or unmodified? Does this exclude anny sighters or foulers--in other words go out and shoot only 10 rounds from cold bore? That would be quite a challenge.
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Not strictly factory rifles. Shoot whatever you want to shoot - even if overweight.

You can shoot as many sighters, foulers, and barrel warmers as you want. But the spirit of the challenge is to do what you need to, to get ready, and then fire only one 10-shot group for 'score' (group size - location on target doesn't matter).
No cheating by shooting 15 different groups and then picking the best one.

I am about to go shoot it with an interesting trio (all custom/modified), as a backup video, just in case I don't have time to get ammo ready for the rifles I *wanted* to use for the challenge.
 
Not strictly factory rifles. Shoot whatever you want to shoot - even if overweight.

You can shoot as many sighters, foulers, and barrel warmers as you want. But the spirit of the challenge is to do what you need to, to get ready, and then fire only one 10-shot group for 'score' (group size - location on target doesn't matter).
No cheating by shooting 15 different groups and then picking the best one.

I am about to go shoot it with an interesting trio (all custom/modified), as a backup video, just in case I don't have time to get ammo ready for the rifles I *wanted* to use for the challenge.
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I thought it would be a great promo piece for whoever's weapon could win if the rules were simply show up cold bore at the range and take just a ten shot group.:) I have show director's duty for the next week but I'll give a few tries after that's done.
 
I thought it would be a great promo piece for whoever's weapon could win if the rules were simply show up cold bore at the range and take just a ten shot group. I have show director's duty for the next week but I'll give a few tries after that's done.
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I have some surprises in store myself--I actually have no idea how it will turn out, but I'm sure I'll have fun in the process. Two rifles are ones that I built with selected components--but one is 100% completely stock (except for a spray paint job I did) and cost under $1000--so there's a "contest within a contest" to see how the completely stock one does.:)
 
I saw some of those videos , with 20 years of running matches at my range I had about the same results . Most people's rifles just did not shoot near as good with someone watching as they did before . I shot benchrest at the national level for a few years , I was middle of the pack . I used a custom bench rest rifle , selected cases , hand made match bullets , tuned scopes , three wind flags and a very high dollar rest . But many people on the net or even in person claim to have better results with a hunting type rifle , store bought bullets , a mil-dot scope , no flags and shooting off a diaper bag . They speak of 1 mil accuracy thinking it means 1 at 100 , 3 at 300 and so on . Since bullets do not travel in a linier path , that just shows they do not even shoot enough to understand bullet travel . Or if they think they are shooting like that , they should sell the secret to benchrest shooters for a lot as they can't do it . Kind of the same claims of their F-150 going 180 mph , I have heard that also .
 
ernie8 said:
I saw some of those videos , with 20 years of running matches at my range I had about the same results . Most people's rifles just did not shoot near as good with someone watching as they did before . I shot benchrest at the national level for a few years , I was middle of the pack . I used a custom bench rest rifle , selected cases , hand made match bullets , tuned scopes , three wind flags and a very high dollar rest . But many people on the net or even in person claim to have better results with a hunting type rifle , store bought bullets , a mil-dot scope , no flags and shooting off a diaper bag . They speak of 1 mil accuracy thinking it means 1 at 100 , 3 at 300 and so on . Since bullets do not travel in a linier path , that just shows they do not even shoot enough to understand bullet travel . Or if they think they are shooting like that , they should sell the secret to benchrest shooters for a lot as they can't do it . Kind of the same claims of their F-150 going 180 mph , I have heard that also .
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Tall tales are always more fun, are they not? :)

I believe you meant to say 1moa accuracy, instead of 1mil.

To be fair, 10 shots inside 1" designated circle is a pretty tall order. One needs to shoot sub-moa with his gun, plus good dope, to pull it off. I shoot at least 10 shots to "qualify" a load. But I only shoot group, and group size is calculated with R50 method, instead of extreme spread. Even with this relaxed requirements, only occasionally I could get better than 1moa groups. I may do better if I have better equipment, but I'm on limited budget.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I did shoot yesterday.
1.68 MoA for one rifle -- which was not expected to hit sub-MoA, and was being used as an example of how "all day long" is a dumb thing to say. (Because it had 800+ rounds through it without cleaning.)
3.62 MoA for the other. (Iron sights.)

Video will be searchable by "1MADL" when it releases on Youtube. But I cannot directly link, due to the added risk of doxxing, because of the various projects that I am involved in on the interwebs.



What? You remember me saying I was taking a "trio" of rifles out? Strange. I don't remember that. (:D)
Let's just say that things did not go as planned with that one.
 
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