Y2K: Warning or Paranoia?

P

Paul Revere

New member
Last night I stopped buy a local army-navy surplus store to browse around. I was the only one in the store, so the owner and I got to talking. I asked how the Y2K issue had affected his business, and he said it hadn't. He explained that he was an upstanding businessman in the community and didn't think it was prudent to create panic buying to increase business as many of his competitors had done.

But he said, in the middle of summer people had basically taken a "wait til later" approach to Y2K preparedness. He also mentioned that just last week a couple came in the store to get a second opinion on a purchase of MRE's (she was crying and the man was shaking). Apparently, someone had just told the couple that after the first of the year food would not be available at the local grocery stores and their kids would most likely starve as a result. So they went to another MRE supplier and plunked down a deposit for $5,000 worth of MRE's! The surplus store owner told them to go get their money back. I guessed this advice made the surplus store owner feel like a humanitarian of sorts.

He also told me that much of his business is with the local police departments who have been buying up "riot gear" in anticipation of Y2K. He said that the departments have told all of their officers (police and fire) that they cannot take any vacation during the Y2K period, that police officers will be "four to a car". He also said the hottest thing selling right now is "razor wire" (the kind around prisons yards), and its being bought up by local home owners. He said they fear marshall law and door-to-door searches (for what he didn't say), and would be stringing the razor wire around their properties before Y2K.

I played dumb, saying that was all crazy, that nothing like that could happen here. But the more I hear of FBI, BATF, police, FEMA, National Guard, and other government agencies going on high alert (no vacation or time off) for the New Year, along with stories like these and those of "Marshall Law" signs being delivered to police departments, I am now beginning to get a bit concerned (more than I already had been of course).

Could the presence of all of this potential law enforcement on the streets be to keep looters out of businesses should the power fail, or are they to be used for road blocks, searches, or general enforcement of "Marshall Law"? To think of what something like a power outage or food shortage could create, and then have things escalate with the National Guard and such on the streets seems pretty scarey.

Seems like a means to justify enacting Marshall Law to me. What do you folks think?
 
Some sheople have a good imagination. Some - not enough.
Most of all this mess is "Just In Case" with the Local LE Departments. I dont think there are any local level PLANS of ACTION.
If there were actual REAL plans instead of "Just in Case Preping." We would know about it. Many TFL MEMBERS here are LEOs and I am sure they would give us a heads up... As we are all on the same team here.
"Look guys - Dont tell anyone I TOLD YOU - but MY DEPARTMENT is GOING TO..." Kind of thing...

I Hope.

------------------
Every man Dies.
Not Every Man Truely Lives...
FREEDOM!

RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
The worst thing about the Y2K situation is the lack of solid data

i hear about how IS organizations are fudging numbers so things look OK for now.
I read reports from experts
I find posts supposedly hijacked out of secure areas...
this is the latest, consume with a grain of salt:


Newsgroups: comp.software.year-2000
Subject: The Government COVER-UP

Roleigh Martin is a Y2K columnist at Westergaard, and has a listserv for Y2K
"insiders" that I receive. Recently someone posted an email from a state
representative for Georgia:

From: george grindley
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 1999 12:47 AM
To: kklewin@cycom.net
Subject:Y2K is more serious than some might think


Dear Sylvia,

As the chairman of the state of Georgias' Y2K taskforce for the State House,
I have studied the possibilities and contingencies closely. I have had many
conversations with National leaders such as Congressman Steven Horn, Newt
Gingrich, Bob Barr, to name a few. There are facts that the Government
doesn't want you to know. Steve [should be John] Koskinen, the Nations Y2K
czar, has instructed each state to prepare their contingency plans to
include 18 cities without power for 3 weeks.

The Department of Defense is quite concerned about our power grid on that
New Years Eve. The chances are good that there will be attempts made by
outside sources to shut our grid down. This system was never encrypted, nor
designed to keep experts out.

Sylvia, I must say here that God alone knows how bad or uneventful that
evening will be, but we must way [sic] the risk of preparation with the risk
of non preparation.

Please call me if I may be of assistance to you.

Yours in service,

George Grindley State Representative,
District 35 Marietta, Georgia

Georgia House of Representatives, George Grindley, Jr. http://www2.state.ga.us/Legis/1997_98/house/gash035.htm

Sylvia Klewin wrote that in conversation with Rep. Grindley,

He stated that it is likely that the power grid will be pre-emptively
broken-up and "isolated" to prevent collapse of large sections caused by
cascading faults. By definition, this would cause many areas to lose all
power, because they buy their power from other areas and do not generate
their own. This is especially true of rural areas, which would therefore be
in the most jeopardy. In addition, nuclear plants may need to be voluntarily
shut down if they cannot prove conclusively that they are 100% remediated,
due to the extra stringent regulations regarding nuclear power.

Grindley himself recommended extensive preparations, and told me that he is
storing a three month supply of food and water for his family.
 
Most computer folk know that there will be little disturbance from the Y2K bug.
I do think there is a great chance of Civil unrest at Y2K and probably a week or two before, but I am always expaining to my friends that this has nothing to do with computers.
It's as simple as this.. as long as people think Y2K is some kind of car polish, we are fine. But that wont happen. The media is promoting the fear of a possible disaster more and more..and in November or December, It's going to start getting coverage like Kosovo did.
They are of course being responsible in stateing that "There's a good chance all will be fine and your bank accounts will remain in tact and that you will have food".
Well, I live in a major city and here's how it goes because I have seen it. You are walking through the store and 5 people are buying water..you say "Hmmm...must be because of the war with Irag, Maybe I should pick a gallon or two as well" So you do. Now there's 6 people throwing water in their carts...soon there's 20.
The morning after Desert Storm started, our local (huge) store's water shelves were empty.
This was of course in response to the fear of Iraq poisoning our water supply in retaliation. There was NO news programming that suggested there might be any poisoning.
A little while later, Some cops beat the hell out of Rodney King, and this city went up in flames. I watched as hundreds of people looted and set fires...even shot firemen.
If you think this was a justified outpouring of rage in response to the beating, then you obviously don't live here. I'm sure at least 40% of the looters didn't even know what happened with Rodney King, and that 90% of the looting and fires was done for people's own gain and not some political statement even though Mr King seemed like a good excuse.
Our police were overwhelmed instantly and decided to do NOTHING until National Guard arrived. They were right in doing so too because they would have been massacred.
Yes folks, this CAN happen. I've seen my city on fire. It does not take much, and I think over a year's worth of media coverage in anticipation of disaster is well enough to put people in the right state of mind.
Y2K is self fullfilling and it's not going to get better. It may not effect you folks in small towns..but you big city slickers best get your act's together.
There, ya see, I'm doing it too. It's a catch 22.

I digress

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Same Shot, Different Day
 
There ARE expectations of "some" electrical outages, for unknown--although probably short--lengths of time. This from CEOs of elec. companies, as well as from some programmer-types.

It is anticipated that if outages occur in areas of high population density and lower incomes, riots could or will occur. This happened in the Bronx in 1977, during a 24-hour outage.

That sort of thing is the reason for present planning and policies for many police, the FBI, the Nat. Guard, etc.

Were something like the LA riots to occur, I would expect some curtailment on travel. I would expect curfews. I would expect strong efforts on the part of all levels of governments in order to prevent a repetition of the protracted lawlessness which did happen. (Actually, this strikes me as one of the primary reasons we have government at all.) I suggest that for sure the NG would not like to look that foolish once again...

My own philosophy of "preparation" is to avoid any area likely to be one of unrest, and the key is "likely". I don't want to have to do any away-from-home activity except when it appears reasonable to do so. This includes buying groceries or gasoline...

Otherwise, live normally but with a little more caution than usual. Even more into "Condition Yellow" than normal.

In 1966, I was an "ambulance-getter" for folks who did not think Charley Whitman could hit them from 400 yards away, off the UT tower. Many of those killed or wounded had not been near the UT campus when the shooting started. They volunteered, and evolution worked. That's a lesson I learned from others, and one I have not forgotten.

FWIW, Art
 
Art,

It sounds like your advice would be, "When TSHTF, stay away from TF." :)

------------------
You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
Well, during the LA riots, we had a curfew, and the NG and things cooled off, but it is my opinion that we came dangerously close to having a national racial war.
After a couple days of watching buildings burn from my apt, I decided to head for Las Vegas NV for safety. We, too my suprise, there was noticable attitude from some of the local blacks in NV to the whites on the street.
I heard from the news there that copycat riots and looting were starting up in other states but on a much smaller scale. I feel that the Rodney King riots were like trying to light a damp piece of wood on fire. The difference between a puff of smoke and a big fire is just how long you can sustain the heat. We were fortunate that things fizzled out here in LA, and I think the NG had a lot to do with that.
However...if something major happens on Y2K, the NG is not going to be able to douse it out everywhere, which might put us over the top, and in a world of hurt. Not racially of course, or at least I hope not, but everyone going nuts at once.
Bright side is that after all this discussion about what will happen... we really don't have too much longer to wait and find out.

Cheers!

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Same Shot, Different Day
 
I've held my tongue on this, but since I didn.t start it, I'll throw in and yall can take or leave as you choose. We here in the gun community have an understanding and interest in the Bill of Rights that you don't find in other groups. We also have seen a lot of our second amendment rights taken away. Some may have even noticed that our 1st and 4th amendment rights have taken it on the chin lately too. When you see rights taken away, it's hard to know why.

Let's take flag burning. Congress wants to pass a law that would allow states to pass laws againt flag burning. Most would say that such a law only shows respect for the symbol of our nation. Others would say it's a breech of the 1st amendment. Now, would you saw that people who are against flag burning are "Thought Police" that want to restrict your religious and intellectual freedoms? Many would. It's all how you look at it.

Are restrictive gun laws "the first step" to the big take over, or a misguieded action from well intended, albeit, ignorant, people? Sadly, you can't judge the fruit without tasting it. All we can do is vote and let the scoundrals know we have our eye on them.

Y2K? Scam. Yes, yes I know. Anything could happen. When I was fifteen I full expected to die in a nuclear war that never came. There may be problem because of the bug. But the end of the world? Massive riots in the streets? I don't think so.

Here in the South, we have FEMA and the Nation Guard running around everytime the hurricanes hit. So far, no death camps. NATO and the UN bring peace keeping troops and emergency food supplies to those in trouble. No, nothing in this life is perfect. But I don't lose sleep becuase of Black Helicopters.

The Y2K scare is being exploited by the gun, ammo, and shooting supply companies to boost their sales. Not to mention all the books, videos, and rechargable non sense on the market.

I used to hang with Hardcore Fundamentalist Christians (No knocks against any faith intended, I only speak of those I saw.)who made a killing selling things to people who were worried about the Revelation and the Tribulation (I realize that Christians shouldn't worry about such things, but remember, there was a buck to be made, fears to be exploited.) This is no way to do business.

Live you life. Enjoy and respect the Life God gave you. Let HIm take care of the rest.

Sorry if I offendend, not me intent.
Peace.
 
The evidence is pretty clear to me that the NWO has the perfect oportunity under y2k chaos to put the hammer down on the American people. The Federal government is mainly in the hands of the NWO crowd at this time. The young military personel in the Marines and Army are indoctrinated in the belief that the enemy is the so called right wing terrorists such as prophecy Christians,prolife people, militia, and others who speak out against the brutal ;policies of the Federal-Un System being formed. Urban warfare operations by Marines and Delta Force s, Fema underground fascilities, countless foreign troops stationed permentely on our soil, anti gun laws everywhere, militarization of local police who are supplied with heavy weapons,and survelence cameras being set up across the nation all lead me to believe SOMETHING BIG is on the way. Some police and older military people,especially in National Guard units are worried about how they must train these arrogant foreign troops who are making no bones about why they are here in America.Guys, these foreign troops are here to assist US government in gun confiscation and the control of the people. Why do you think Big Comrade has shipped out most of our trained troops overseas? I think NWO dominated Federal crowd figure they can control things with a combination of Federal forces here, the Many foreign troops already here, the nationalized Guard, and militaterized local and Federal police forces. THe US-Brit and German dominated Nato proved to me that they are willing to destroy everything in their path to achieve their aim of domination in the recent Kosovo campaign. The signs are everywhere in my opinion for the final coup against America by the traitors within our own government. But the one world government is predicted in the Bible and the countdown has begin
 
OK, I'm no expert. I've done some research and the only thing for certian is that nobody knows what's going to happen. Just to be on the safe side I will have some supplies on hand, my vehicles will be full of fuel and the camp stoves and lanterns will be ready.
JMHO, I think that there will be spot power outages that could last several days. But, it ain't gonna be the end of the world.

The only thing that does worry me is how will the sheeple react? We all know folks who go into a panic if their cable TV goes out. So what happens with a major power failure combined with Y2K hysteria? Could get real ugly. And of course every BG in the world will hit the streets as soon as the power goes out. Could get even uglier. Will it happen? Who knows?

As for me, my plan is simple. Fire up the coleman lantern, kick back and watch the show. It's gonna be a doozy!
 
Well... this is very interesting.
Just some observations from one who spends an enormous amount of time in newsgroups, forums, and on the phone with (I'll be as PC as possible) police officers, all areas of military, SWAT, members of melitia groups, survivalists, and some who are just plain spooked by the whole Y2K issue. My general impressions are as follows:

Military, and law enforcement officials aren't too impressed with the projections of TEOWAWKI. On the other hand, they are prepared or preparing for the voilence that is more likely to result when those who have spent the last two years preparing are seriously dissapointed that "we're all still here" and need to expel some of that energy that they've built up.

From those who are "preparing" to various degrees I have heard all of the following ideas and preparations:
-stockpiling food, mre's, water, gas, wood, etc. for a minimum of 6 months.
-building homes under their existing homes that with secret entries
-wiring windows, chimneys, and any possible openings of their house to keep out smoke bombs, grenades, etc.
-hiding all firearms (burying, etc) for fear that law enforcement officials and/or other's determined to survive will forcefully enter their home and seize the weapons.
- barracading doors with a mulitude of reinforcement and sometimes explosive materials to keep the unwelcomed out
- leaving their homes and building 'survival camps' with other's who share their views
- building "moats" around their homes and swamps beneith their floorboards (while removing or loosening the boards directly in front of windows/doors) and filling these areas with live and poisonous creatures
-creating chemical concoctions that emit a nauseating smell to mask the smell of food cooking (to deter neighbors/wanderers from coming to beg for handouts)
Oh, I could go on forever.
I wasnt paranoid before I started selling tactical gear and the like, but now I can't help but be concerned about those who are so prepared that they might contribute to the projected hysteria that may or may never come about.

Is Y2K good for business? Probably, we haven't been doing this long enough to make that determination. What I can say is that if computers/the internet/power is unavailable, I'm out of business until it clears up... and I predict that most of the gear that I have sold will not be used for it's original "purpose".

just my $.45 (inflation, taxes, etc)

Geri Weaver


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BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm
 
Grayfox,

That's exactly what I've been telling people for months. There'll likely be some tech problems, but those aren't the problems that are gonna bite us.

The problem is the morons who think, for example, that their hometown's football team winning the Superbowl is an excuse to rob and pillage. People don't need much reason to ass out, and this is an absolutely perfect opportunity for them.

I'm not worried about the computers. I'm seriously worried about the sheeple.

------------------
You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
I believe the police and federal agencies are preparing for Y2K. And I think they are very wise to do so. When you think of the riots, looting and violence that takes place after a city wins a silly hockey or soccer game (Detroit, Vancouver, etc.), what will it be like when the same people with that mindset have the New Year's party of the millenium? As Pogo so wisely said many years ago, "We have met the enemy and they are us."
 
Here in the midwest, we experience some of our coldest, most brutal weather in early January. Any minor or major power outages will cause tremendous problems, because power in most cases means heat.

When you investigate some of the warning signs, including an $8 billion allocation for U.S. military intervention at Y2K, the Federal Reserve printing billions of additional notes to serve as a cushion to prevent bank runs, the current manipulation of the price of gold by the IMF, warnings posted by the American Red Cross and other national organizations that deal in disaster relief, you begin to look beyond the rhetoric. Couple these things with the blatant lies perpetuated by the Clinton administration, and you have the makings of one of the most critical timing related opportunities to inflict the NWO on the American people.

In addition to our potential domestic problems, there are some Global strategic problems that fall into place at year end, including the transfer of the Panama Canal back to Panama on 31 December 1999. The result of the Carter-Torrijos Treaty, this transfer actually turns the heavily guarded (by American Troops) canal over to the Red Chinese (see http://www.thenewamerican.com/ ). This transfer equates to the biggest breach in our national security in history! And it happens on the heels of Y2K!

If the world were a huge chess board, there hasn't been anything that has put the United States in more of a position of "check", in all of America's history, than Y2K. This is not a notification of doomsay, but one of a multitude of facts and factors that line up for any opposing faction to our liberty loving sovereign nation.

If preparedness isn't already completed in your households, you have had your heads in the sand. This (Y2K) is in fact, a once in a millenium opportunity for those who could take away our precious freedoms, with American people huddled in high school gymnasiums staying warm, while their homes are left unattended and cold.

My recommendation is to be prepared for the worst case scenario, be capable of being independent of power grids on 01 January 1999, and stay in your homes until order is assured. This would mean, not even a trip to the local gas station, grocery store, or even to your jobs! Let everyone else go nuts scurrying around for the last package of toilet paper and gallon of milk. Stay safe at home, secure and comfortable without the need to go out. Your priorities at this time should be the safety and security of you, your family and your property.
 
Has everyone gone nuts? Y2K will mean some minor inconveniences, and nothing more, unless the screwballs panic and start some kind of civil war.

By the way, if those signs really say "Marshall Law", let's hope they get a Y2K Spell Checker.

Jim

Yes, I do know the real problem and I can spell computer. I have been a programmer/analyst and communications computer consultant since 1968, before most of the Y2K nutzos were even born.

JEK
 
Jim Keenan: While I basically agree with you, your idea and my idea of "minor inconvenience" might be different from the notion of "minor" to others. I've seen folks come apart over an out-of-order ATM, or a minor cut-off in traffic.

My belief is that there are people "out there" who are ready to seize any excuse to act out their "nutzoidals". When it comes to providing opportunities to others, I have a very wide yellow racing stripe right down the middle of my back.

Since I have yet to find anybody to deny that some embedded chips in some systems--electricity supply; water & sewage; and some transportation--will lock up for no particular known reason, it just seems to me that the advice to prepare for "a hurricane without wind or waves--a week or so" is reasonable and prudent.

As for people's behavior, I note that in Marseille in January of this year, with the banks' computer changeovers to deal with the Euro, welfare checks were a week late--and there were riots.

FWIW, Art
 
Has this civilized and friendly debate caused any of y'all to experience some increased blood pressure? Slight excitability? Maybe just a little incredulous headshaking? If you can imagine the tone in some voices while reading these posts, I sense a little irritability here and there. If this discussion jabs you even a little... think about how it will be the day before, the day of, and the day after, when those without much common sense react. That's what spooks me. Heck, we're in NC, Hurricaine Capital of the US! We survived Fran, Connie, and all them other gals. We survived without cable, electric, phone, the Internet (gasp!). My husband is a backwoods redneck military survival trained roll-in-the-dirt dont have to shower for a month type guy. We can go without the luxuries of life and "survive" it... it's the nutsies out there that worry me.
Toss in another $.45 for me...

Geri Weaver

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BlackHawk Authorized Dealer (BAD) - "Better than catalog" prices & free shipping http://www.geardup.com/gearedup.htm
 
Here in LA, we have a once a year parade called "The Rose Parade". They make floats from flowers and they cruise down a main blvd.

Well, I was watching the Rose parade from the top of my car which was in a parking lot next to the blvd. Very cool display. Everyone is happy. Very impressive indeed.

Before too long the last float goes by and guess what? The crowd loses all sense. You couldn't get your car out. Nobody is paying attention to the walk/don't walk signs. People in cars are starting ignore traffic lights.
There's honking and people pushing cars through people to get through.
It took me almost an hour to get my car 6 blocks to the freeway on-ramp.
All these people had big smiles on their faces talking about the float they liked the most.
I can't imagine what it will be like when they are fighting for the last loaf of bread that the media has convinced them "they probably wont need"
I'm sorry guys....it may depend on where you live, but I am preparing. I've had computers since the Apple II and done my fair share of C++ in Code Warrior. Computer failures and Y2K civil un-rest are going to be at best ..distantly related, if at all.
If I had half as much faith in the logic, courtesy, and common sense of the sheeple as I do in the reliablity of our computer systems, I wouldn't bother...but I don't.

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Same Shot, Different Day
 
I R uv the "time will tell, Always does" school. I too waited for the nuclear holocaust that never came as a child/young man. I prepared for this, that and other things besides. Heck I was a "Be Prepared" type all my life, still am.

Folks are by and large pretty predictable in a lot of ways, and unpredictable in others. Yeah, get a lot of folks together, so many that no one can stop them from doing whatever they want, and they will do whatever they want. Usually, that novelty wears off pretty quickly. Sometimes it doesn't.

Power goes out in a few metro areas for more than a day, there will be big problems. Real, big problems. Power goes out in rural areas, "
"what? Powers out at your place? Really? I dunno, I'll go check. Honey! Is the power out? Yep, powers out, better eat that ice cream and cook up that trout in the upstairs freezer, deep freezer will probably be okay for a while"

Friend of mines son has been accepted to "academy" They are starting the academy 3 weeks early so they can be graduated before y2k, more cops on the street. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Me? I'll probably be at work. I am a networking guy afterall. Do I have MREs? Mebbe, Do I have water? mebbe.

Hoarding is a real issue. The Red Cross is recommending hoarding on their web page. The Fed Reserve is estimating something like 50 billion in CASH will be hoarded. 50 billion? You've GOT to be kidding. Imagine what that is going to do to the consumer economy next winter. All that disposable liquid capitol. Sheesh.

Oh yeah, "I don't have any more guns" You can quote me on that. (might be a good idea)

take care

Not unconcerned, but not worried either.
 
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