There are reasons the treadheads (tankers) refer to airborne as "crunchies" on occasion.
WW II Paratrooper question
- Thread starter 4V50 Gary
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There are reasons the treadheads (tankers) refer to airborne as "crunchies" on occasion.
Paratroopers as a fighting force seem to have become passé. They have not made a combat jump since the second Gulf War if I remember correctly. Helicopters are a safer way of delivering troops. Nevertheless, Jump School seems to be used more these days as a requirement for Ranger training, Special Forces, et. al.
The Army apparently does not think Paratroopers are no longer useful as a fighting force.
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Dis...her-storm-ii-advancing-rapid-global-mobility/
That was just this past November.
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Dis...her-storm-ii-advancing-rapid-global-mobility/
That was just this past November.
Wet boots are icky.
Agree with others that large scale paratrooper drops are passe. Even though chute design has improved immensely since the 1930-40s, the dispersal is still too great and trying to collect your units too time consuming. Delivery by whirleybird is better for rapid and coherent insertion.
I am a jump master, but haven't done anything airborne in about ten years so my memory is probably pretty bad, and after JM school we put a Marine Corps spin on everything so keep that in mind.
Based on that short excerpt, I would guess that his rifle was in a bag, or tethered but he had disconnected it during the flight with the intent on reattaching it prior to checking equipment before jumping. It sure sounds like they didn't do a full "stand up, hook up, check equipment, etc", as life happened and they got shot up. Sitting down with all that equipment in a crowded plane is miserable. Almost as miserable as standing up slinging all that equipment from a harness for the 6 minutes that you are inbound to the DZ. On a long flight, comfort based decisions sometimes win.
Based on that short excerpt, I would guess that his rifle was in a bag, or tethered but he had disconnected it during the flight with the intent on reattaching it prior to checking equipment before jumping. It sure sounds like they didn't do a full "stand up, hook up, check equipment, etc", as life happened and they got shot up. Sitting down with all that equipment in a crowded plane is miserable. Almost as miserable as standing up slinging all that equipment from a harness for the 6 minutes that you are inbound to the DZ. On a long flight, comfort based decisions sometimes win.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"You quoted the author as saying:
"The Air Force sergeant dove out the door of the plane.""
My guess, the author simply used later terminology. The Air Force became a separate branch in 1947 or so.
The "Air Force Sergeant" would likely have been one of the crew of the drop aircraft... a member of the Army Air Corps.
Not a huge discrepancy.
My Great Uncle was a member of the 82nd Airborne during WW II. He fought in the majority of the unit's combat roles and was in on all of the jumps they made during the war and, amazingly enough, was never wounded.
The only thing he ever really said to me about his time was that early on he found a guy in the infantry and traded him straight up Carbine for Garand. He said he didn't trust the carbine to do much of anything.
"The Air Force sergeant dove out the door of the plane.""
My guess, the author simply used later terminology. The Air Force became a separate branch in 1947 or so.
The "Air Force Sergeant" would likely have been one of the crew of the drop aircraft... a member of the Army Air Corps.
Not a huge discrepancy.
My Great Uncle was a member of the 82nd Airborne during WW II. He fought in the majority of the unit's combat roles and was in on all of the jumps they made during the war and, amazingly enough, was never wounded.
The only thing he ever really said to me about his time was that early on he found a guy in the infantry and traded him straight up Carbine for Garand. He said he didn't trust the carbine to do much of anything.
Years ago I was a cook at a private club and my GM was a retired Army major. I was listening to a radio about the 50th anniversary of D-Day when he walked by. I knew he served in the war, so I asked him about his memories, we'd never had more than a three sentence conversation previously.
Turns out he was in the 82nd. He described meeting Eisenhower right before the invasion when he was inspecting the troops. And then he told me that he was shot in the leg while descending. He lost his rifle and gear and hid out until he was rescued by advancing Rangers.
Turns out he was in the 82nd. He described meeting Eisenhower right before the invasion when he was inspecting the troops. And then he told me that he was shot in the leg while descending. He lost his rifle and gear and hid out until he was rescued by advancing Rangers.
That brought back a memory from when I was being trained as a Combat Medic at Fort Sam Houston in late 1962. Some of the Platoons in our training company were Airborne Special Forces candidates. (Airborne troopers had to make a jump at specific intervals to maintain their active jump status.) I overheard one of the Airborne Platoon Sergeants (S/Sgt. Upright...I kid you not...his real name), talking about an incident in one of the jumps he made. He stated that there was an "Airforce" non-com who was stationed at the door of the C47 they were jumping from. As the story went, the Airforce sergeant had taken off his Airforce Jacket (I presume one of Green synthetic types), and sat it on the first seat next to the open door. The Airforce Sgt. was wearing a parachute with a ripcord...not the same as the ones used by the paratroopers with a static line hook. As one of the paratroopers was about to loft from the door, he grabbed the Airforce jacket and dove out the door with it in hand. At that (as the story being told went), the Airforce Sargent dove out the door and actually beat the paratrooper who had his jacket to the ground (delayed opening) and was waiting with a very unhappy mood. Sgt. Upright insisted the story was true.
While the idea of a mass air assault by paratroopers is romantic (i.e., colorful), there was only one combat jump in the Vietnam war, and only one combat jump in the Iraq war. So, it would seem the day of the air assault via mass paratroopers is over despite an occasional practice jump...which are likely just to keep an option open than it is likely to ever be used again.
Airborne operations are an act of of desperation, not preference. The Army expected to lose half its paratroopers on D-day and so every infantry platoon had two LTs. We haven't been desperate in a long time so few combat jumps. Grenada was 1983. Don't forget we took Camp Rhino via an airborne op before the MEU Marines arrived via chopper.Surface to air missiles are also a concern.
Airborne school is used as a gut-check to filter Ranger and SF candidates out. Jumping is scary and if guys are unwilling to face that fear, they don't have what it takes. Special operations soldiers are more likely to use some form (HALO/HAHO/Freefall) of jumping than the 82nd is to launch a major airborne op.
The main point of the 82nd and similar units is to be able to seize an airstrip so that non-paras and heavy equipment can be brought in (Camp Rhino). Or just seize an important facility that is out of chopper range.
Planes have always had superior range than helicopters meaning you can load up somewhere very safe, fly a long distance, and drop 60 to 120 troopers from a single aircraft (with a single flight crew, not a dozen choppers). I was in the 82nd. I never liked jumping and understood the risks, but when the chips are down, sometimes you gotta take those big risks.
--Good luck to your grandson, Bucky. I hope all his landings are easy.
Airborne school is used as a gut-check to filter Ranger and SF candidates out. Jumping is scary and if guys are unwilling to face that fear, they don't have what it takes. Special operations soldiers are more likely to use some form (HALO/HAHO/Freefall) of jumping than the 82nd is to launch a major airborne op.
The main point of the 82nd and similar units is to be able to seize an airstrip so that non-paras and heavy equipment can be brought in (Camp Rhino). Or just seize an important facility that is out of chopper range.
Planes have always had superior range than helicopters meaning you can load up somewhere very safe, fly a long distance, and drop 60 to 120 troopers from a single aircraft (with a single flight crew, not a dozen choppers). I was in the 82nd. I never liked jumping and understood the risks, but when the chips are down, sometimes you gotta take those big risks.
--Good luck to your grandson, Bucky. I hope all his landings are easy.
When I went thru jump school in Aug 65, (one of 4 USAF guys in an Army school) we chuted up and sat on the grass, back to back, leaning on each other, off the taxiway, waiting for our plane. A silver C-130 landed and missed our taxiway....wait! The pilot threw the prop pitch in reverse and it backed up! Planes aren't supposed to go backward!
It turned down our taxiway, dropped it's ramp and we walked on. I was on an inboard stick. We took off, no, not nervious yet. On the jump run they open the doors; the smell of JP4 exhaust wafts thru the plane..."outboard stick stand up...hook up...check equipment...sound off equipment check...one by one the count is sent back to the jumpmaster. All eyes are on the jump light, waiting for it to change from red to green. There! The jumpmaster yells "GO!" and swats the first troop on the butt. One by one the troops shuffle back to the door. Looks easy...nervous..NA!
The AF loadmaster activates the staticline retriever that drags the staticlines and deployment bags back inside the plane.
The plane makes a 3 min "racetrack" to get back on the jump run. "Inboard stick, stand up!" OK, now it's our turn. Hook up, follow all training from the last 3 weeks. Nervous, hmm... not yet. Here we go, moving toward the door, I can see out now, couple more steps, turn right...I don't know if the Jumpmaster slapped my butt or not.
Everything suddenly goes in slow motion...I have a tight body position rolling onto my left side...I feel the 50 lb cord break, opening the pack, f a l l i n g, f a l l i n g..UGH! Opening shock! Look up and check canopy...all good! Look at the ground, look around at everyone else. Ground's coming up....point my toes, bend knees...here it comes..hit, shift, roll...jump up, run around the canopy to colapse it.
IS THAT ALL THERE IS TO THIS?! I'm a 1 jump commando!
Next day, jump #2. A repeat of everything yesterday...except, I didn't keep my feet and knees together, didn't keep the training. One of the black hat cadre walkes over to see if I'm OK, then kicks dirt on me and walks away.
The begining of 372 jumps, mixed staticline and freefall, mostly freefall.
It turned down our taxiway, dropped it's ramp and we walked on. I was on an inboard stick. We took off, no, not nervious yet. On the jump run they open the doors; the smell of JP4 exhaust wafts thru the plane..."outboard stick stand up...hook up...check equipment...sound off equipment check...one by one the count is sent back to the jumpmaster. All eyes are on the jump light, waiting for it to change from red to green. There! The jumpmaster yells "GO!" and swats the first troop on the butt. One by one the troops shuffle back to the door. Looks easy...nervous..NA!
The AF loadmaster activates the staticline retriever that drags the staticlines and deployment bags back inside the plane.
The plane makes a 3 min "racetrack" to get back on the jump run. "Inboard stick, stand up!" OK, now it's our turn. Hook up, follow all training from the last 3 weeks. Nervous, hmm... not yet. Here we go, moving toward the door, I can see out now, couple more steps, turn right...I don't know if the Jumpmaster slapped my butt or not.
Everything suddenly goes in slow motion...I have a tight body position rolling onto my left side...I feel the 50 lb cord break, opening the pack, f a l l i n g, f a l l i n g..UGH! Opening shock! Look up and check canopy...all good! Look at the ground, look around at everyone else. Ground's coming up....point my toes, bend knees...here it comes..hit, shift, roll...jump up, run around the canopy to colapse it.
IS THAT ALL THERE IS TO THIS?! I'm a 1 jump commando!
Next day, jump #2. A repeat of everything yesterday...except, I didn't keep my feet and knees together, didn't keep the training. One of the black hat cadre walkes over to see if I'm OK, then kicks dirt on me and walks away.
The begining of 372 jumps, mixed staticline and freefall, mostly freefall.
Heh, it didn't go. They sat on the flight line kitted up for 8-10 hours and.... sat there. No talking, no food, no potty break. Then they turned in their gear and went back to barracks.
He thinks there was an issue with the plane.
They were supposed to get a 2am wakeup this morning to try to get in 3 jumps today. I haven't heard from him, and it is now past lights out so I get to wait.....
I'm not nearly as practiced as him at this hurry up and wait stuff.
So, pwc... you were doing military freefall jumps?
Bucky - yes, freefall school was at Ft. Bragg then, at Smoke Bomb Hill, across from the JFK Special Warfare Center. Both basic freefall and freefall jumpmaster. Highest "official" jumps for school were 17K feet, but last jump in jumpmaster course, the instructors got us 22K ft. Our records show 17K. You get used to a certain time passing after exit before time to pull. Most jumps were from 12.5K to 15K. So when you go higher, and that "time" passes you get the urge to pull the ripcord, but you check the altimeter and it says not yet. Just hold position in the formation and wait for the wave off.
Some time aftet I left Combat Control Team, the school was moved to Yuma. Better weather than NC.
Some time aftet I left Combat Control Team, the school was moved to Yuma. Better weather than NC.
No, it's always mission dependant. I was an AF Combat Controller for 8 yrs, and yes, Combat Control Teams, I believe now fall under SOCOM. CCTs deploy with Special Forces, SEALS, Rangers, and I believe Force Recon as the heavy hitters; controlling the air support (fighters, bombers, close air suppprt) for special ops missions. They are trained and fully qualified as shooters, but their primary weapon is the radio.
I left CCT in 79, before all special operators were combined into one command. A realy good thing, cut down interservice mission rivelry by combining the best of each service supporting each other.
Freefall or staticline parachuting is nothing more than the ride to work. The job begins with boots on the ground.
I left CCT in 79, before all special operators were combined into one command. A realy good thing, cut down interservice mission rivelry by combining the best of each service supporting each other.
Freefall or staticline parachuting is nothing more than the ride to work. The job begins with boots on the ground.
