Would *you* sign this statement?
- Thread starter pax
- Start date
jtmckinney
New member
Thanks for bringing this thread back up. I enjoyed reading it. "Happy Independence Day" back at ya!
Glockstar .40
New member
Enjoyed reading this. Thanks Pax. Happy Independence day everyone!
Lets not forget what our freedom cost those who paid for it, and lets not fear if need be to pay that cost for our children's future.
Lets not forget what our freedom cost those who paid for it, and lets not fear if need be to pay that cost for our children's future.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
When in the course of human events --
Happy Independence Day.
Happy Independence Day.
Snowden and NSA are about the only thing on that list that is both bi-partisan and headed toward being buried while unresolved.
The IRS targeting scandal looks more and more like it's going to blow up in someone's face. Enough moderates will join the conservatives to make somebody pay for it. The only question I have is how they'll prevent it from happening again with another "fall guy".
The administration created illegal alien flood program, wasn't administration created. At least not by this one. He's not flying down to these countries winking, nodding, and telling them don't come North.
President Bush avowed a lot of things I didn't agree with but didn't worry about either. When President Obama's executive orders go too far, he gets slapped down by the Supreme Court still. so checks and balances are still functioning. And he's losing more and more influence every time, getting closer and closer to the tipping point on his final term.
The four year term, and two term paradigm may be the last greatest gift Washington gave us. It's pretty easy to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The Civil War didn't happen because they worried Lincoln would be in office for 8+(as it was before the term limit) years, they worried what Lincoln accomplished would be irreversible. Same with the Revolutionary War. King George wasn't going to get voted out. No light at the end of the tunnel.
Very little in President Obama's remaining platform screams irreversible. He's not getting a gun ban for example. Even if he did, he's not getting a forced turn-in/buy-back, allowing those who have them to keep them, then get it reversed in judicial review or electoral action.
Happy Independence Day!
Gladly (VERY MUCH SO), we still have a roughly functional government. Peaceful ways to address our problems still have a good chance for working. Maybe we don't get exactly what we want all the time, but the chances of getting reasonable compromises in most areas are decent.
I see some people talking on the internet about how we are approaching another Civil War like time, but I just don't see it. Do you really think large numbers of people are willing to kill their neighbors for disagreeing over Citizens United, the ACA, or whatever the topic of the day is? I just don't see that as likely, and that makes me quite happy.
Gladly (VERY MUCH SO), we still have a roughly functional government. Peaceful ways to address our problems still have a good chance for working. Maybe we don't get exactly what we want all the time, but the chances of getting reasonable compromises in most areas are decent.
I see some people talking on the internet about how we are approaching another Civil War like time, but I just don't see it. Do you really think large numbers of people are willing to kill their neighbors for disagreeing over Citizens United, the ACA, or whatever the topic of the day is? I just don't see that as likely, and that makes me quite happy.
We live in the land of apathy. As long as people have their 2.3 kids, backyard BBQ, 56" flat screen TV, minivan and house in suburbia, they have no real motivation to act as most of what happens is not perceived by anyone as "affecting" them.
And I guarantee that nobody who has anything to lose (such as a pension, or their prized possessions) is going to "rise up" and take action against something they don't perceive as being that important to them. Case in point: Ask any cop who is "rah rah" for the 2nd Amendment if he would be willing to forego his pension for what he believes; I doubt if one out of 10000 would answer "yes."
And regarding voting: A growing concensus is that ANY politician is little more than a snake in the grass that talks out of both sides of his mouth, hence the "why bother to vote" attitude.
Washington had nothing to do with it. He merely voiced an opinion that no man should serve more than two terms. Lincoln could have been reelected as many times as he wanted if he hadn't been shot.
It was the Republicans that proposed and got the 22nd Amendment in 1947 after FDR's 4 terms.
Ironically, it was the Republicans again that wanted to repeal that amendment when Reagan was in office.
raimius said:
It is always difficult to tell whether the passions of the moment create an environment in which a spark will die out or will erupt into a conflagration.
Even in the critical months preceding the beginning of the Civil War, large numbers of people were not willing to kill their neighbors over the issue of slavery, or even the dissolution of the Union. What I have read suggests the general sentiment in Northern states was "good riddance" to the seceding Southern states. However, the hostilities at Fort Sumter provided a different issue -or spark- that ignited the Civil War.
gyvel said:
Precisely. And the root causes of the various issues that currently divide our nation's sentiments often go back many decades. But that does not mean anyone can predict whether our national divisions can or cannot be amicably resolved or, if they cannot be resolved, what unforeseen event might produce an untenable situation.
As one of my more pragmatic colleagues has repeatedly pointed out to anyone who will listen, nobody wants to live in a situation where the infrastructure has completely collapsed. In fact, I don't think the vast majority of people could survive without the infrastructure. And that is precisely what would happen in the event of another full scale civil war.
I don't even want to think about it.
I'm afraid that like the frog in slowly-boiled water, more people
do not comprehend the degree to which this country and its
people have (been)changed -- and what that inevitably means
toward every aspect of this thread.
This is not partisan, for both major parties are now in full tilt.
But -- short of major cataclysm -- I see little prospect for halting it.
It will interesting to read the history in 50-60 years* or so since
he who controls the present controls the past, (and he who
controls the past controls the future). Eric Arthur Blair
*Not an idly-chosen number, as God had Moses' people wander in the wilderness for 40 years to largely erase the generation who remembered Egypt and its ways... but we live longer now.
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claymore1500
New member
Please bear with me for a moment, I know that this post may come acrooed as babble but just think aboout it for a second.
I would compare our government to mans faithful and ever present companion, the dog.
We all know how good a dog can be, and how protective they become to their masters, but let the same dog become infested with fleas, and it becomes less concerned with the master, and more concerned with it's own anguish.
Like wise, the master, starts to separate himself from the dog, as the fleas irritate him as well.
Then it comes to the point when a decision has got to be made, The master has a choice, Kill the dog and get a new one, or do everything in his power to rid the dog of the flea infestation, We can be fairly sure of getting the old dog back and he will be more appreciative of the master, if we rid the dog of the fleas. We cannot be as sure of the result of killing the old dog, and getting a new one.
Likewise with a method of government, We know the original plan has worked for MANY generations, Not so sure it could be duplicated with a new one, just as getting a new dog, one cannot be sure it won't bite you.
I have tried to keep the politics to a minimum in my post, I think I have done rather well, while still getting my ideas out there.
Tom.
I would compare our government to mans faithful and ever present companion, the dog.
We all know how good a dog can be, and how protective they become to their masters, but let the same dog become infested with fleas, and it becomes less concerned with the master, and more concerned with it's own anguish.
Like wise, the master, starts to separate himself from the dog, as the fleas irritate him as well.
Then it comes to the point when a decision has got to be made, The master has a choice, Kill the dog and get a new one, or do everything in his power to rid the dog of the flea infestation, We can be fairly sure of getting the old dog back and he will be more appreciative of the master, if we rid the dog of the fleas. We cannot be as sure of the result of killing the old dog, and getting a new one.
Likewise with a method of government, We know the original plan has worked for MANY generations, Not so sure it could be duplicated with a new one, just as getting a new dog, one cannot be sure it won't bite you.
I have tried to keep the politics to a minimum in my post, I think I have done rather well, while still getting my ideas out there.
Tom.
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Numbers (generally) present hard truth:
Read both article sections below -- particularly the demographics involved, the headlines about those demographic trends & influx... and coldly consider their portent.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-u-s-is-great-but-fewer-say-its-the-greatest/
http://www.people-press.org/2014/06...f-the-nation-the-constitution-and-government/
Read both article sections below -- particularly the demographics involved, the headlines about those demographic trends & influx... and coldly consider their portent.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-u-s-is-great-but-fewer-say-its-the-greatest/
http://www.people-press.org/2014/06...f-the-nation-the-constitution-and-government/