Would you be a minute man?

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If we controlled the border, and then hit employers with incredibly stiff penalties then the incentive to come here would disappear.

How about we just start with the second part as it is incredibly cheaper (pays for itself via the penalties), then move on to the first part once we figure out how to fund (not just legislate) a fence.
 
Juan Carlos....would that word be xenophobia? For me, minutemen serve no country but themselves. If you want to serve your country, join the military or get a federal job dedicated to the war on terrorism...undocumented human beings crossing the border are no threat to me...terrorists and vigilantes are.
 
Juan Carlos....would that word be xenophobia?

Not really. His hesitance to allow more immigration isn't particularly irrational...nor is it based on fear of foreigners as foreigners. It's economic. And while the economic argument is often used as a cover for people who simply don't like Mexicans, I don't think that's the case here.

Protectionism, maybe?

For me, minutemen serve no country but themselves. If you want to serve your country, join the military or get a federal job dedicated to the war on terrorism...undocumented human beings crossing the border are no threat to me...terrorists and vigilantes are.

What if those undocumented human beings are terrorists?

And while it may be true that the Border Patrol is always hiring, people willing to volunteer their time are saving the government a ton of money by doing so. I see no problem there. As far as "vigilantes" goes, these folks really aren't much different than a neighborhood watch. Most of what they do is simply reporting, not trying to take down the illegals themselves. They're armed because they're sometimes out a ways from "civilization" and dealing with people whose intentions may not be known. Seems reasonable.

Out of curiosity, how many cases have there been of abuse by these people? I've heard of a couple (making IAs caught hold up t-shirts, for instance), and I'm sure there's been some verbal abuse of IAs...but from everything I've read it sounds like the whole thing is pretty civil.

BTW I'm not looking for assurances that there have been no cases of abuse from pro-Minutemen individuals...obviously you're not going to go out of your way to look for them. ;) Let the people who oppose the organization see what they can dig up.
 
I'm too old for anything like that. I'll have to leave it to you young fellas. But by the way, I am descended from illegal immigrants, sort of. None of them went through Ellis Island and none of them had papers, I'm sure. So I have to excuse myself on the basis of disqualification.

I will note, however, that all the arguments against immigration have been the same since the Irish started to arrive before the Civil War and mostly they have been valid reasons. Immigration, legal or otherwise, does tend to keep wages down. There was also a movement to make German an official language because of the large numbers of German speakers in the country but WWI pretty much put an end to that idea.

Actually, there can't be many left south of the borders, from what I can tell.
 
If we controlled the border, and then hit employers with incredibly stiff penalties then the incentive to come here would disappear.

***It seems to me that the powers that be don't want to prevent people from coming over the border in droves, or they surely would erect a real barrier to keep them out. Businesses are profiting from the cheap labor, obviously, and business interests reign supreme in America, esp. now. All the very visible security at airports must be mainly for show, when anyone can just slip over the southern border with absolutely no vetting.

One simple thing the US government could do to reduce illegal immigration would be to eliminate the automatic citizenship for babies born in the US to non-citizen parents. There is no justification I can see for this nowdays, if there ever was a sensible reason.

On the original question, I couldn't be a minuteman, but I could be a minutewoman, and I'd certainly consider it if it was legal and could do some good. But what's the point of being armed when its forbidden to shoot even drug carrying illegals coming over the border?
 
I somewhat agree with you but I think the process should be done in reverse order. It makes no sense to overhaul immigration policies if the border remains as open as it is. You could create an amnesty program or whatever might be done to deal with the situation but it would be useless without additional border security. If it takes another year to implement increased border security you will already have half a million people in the country that need to be dealt with. You will never solve the problem that way. You have to stop the problem from getting bigger before you can fix it.

I was just reading that remittances are now the 2nd largest source of foreign income for Mexico. That really shows how big of a problem this has become and that people really need to wake up. Most of these remittances come from the US. The Mexican government recently updated its matricula consular so that illegal immigrant's in the US can also send funds to Mexico. Altogether about $18 billion is sent annually to Mexico in remittances. I'm not against people sending money to relatives but being the 2nd largest foreign source of income is ludicrous. The US economy is hauling Mexico's.

Juan Carlos wrote:
Me personally? No. But I support the decisions of others to do the same.

I'd prefer to see our immigration policies undergo an overhaul before I'd get excited about border enforcement. Definitely before I'd be willing to pay more for increased border enforcement (which will definitely necessary at some point).
 
I think it might be amusing. I could see joining, and if I started noticing that I was helping catch more illegal immigrants than drug runners, my interest would strongly wane. Not concerned with immigration so much.
 
The only value I see in having volunteer vigilantes on the border would be to intercept drug runners...otherwise, let the pro's from Dover handle the immigration issue...America is all about immigrants, and I find it to be the height of bad taste and decorum to have anglo commando wannabees trying to change the direction that America has always been on...a land of immigrants. Give it a rest already.
 
I find it to be the height of bad taste and decorum to have anglo commando wannabees trying to change the direction that America has always been on...a land of immigrants.

How do you know we're anglo?

The commando wannabees, maybe, but I find your mean-spirited presumption concerning race to be highly offensive. I'm going to have a good cry and then go to my therapist, but I'll look for your apology when I return. :rolleyes:
 
You are right...I don't know. Show me a massive rally of Hispanics, Afro-Americans, and Asians protesting against so called "illegals", and I'll eat my hat.
 
You are right...I don't know. Show me a massive rally of Hispanics, Afro-Americans, and Asians protesting against so called "illegals", and I'll eat my hat.

I always thought that people being racist against your ethnic group was supposed to hurt. It didn't here. Maybe it just hurts when you think the comment has pertinence?
 
You are right...I don't know. Show me a massive rally of Hispanics, Afro-Americans, and Asians protesting against so called "illegals", and I'll eat my hat.

Just because they aren't protesting illegal immigration makes illegal immigration ok:confused:
 
I find it to be the height of bad taste and decorum to have anglo commando wannabees trying to change the direction that America has always been on...a land of immigrants.

Mexico has laws on how many and what kind of immigrants can enter their country legally. I don't think that means they have anything against me personally as a white Anglo-Celtic protestant, it just means that they want to keep Mexico, Mexico. Understandable and it makes sense.

Why should Americans feel any different? It's not just economics but people just naturally want to preserve their cultural identity. This is true of all countries in the world. There is nothing wrong or evil about this.

And why did you bring race into this?

The original post was, do you want to be a minute man? There are a lot of Tejanos and other latin families that have roots in America going back 100 years or more that are against illegal aliens. In some ways they are as different as Cajun French are to Paris French and are more American than Mexican
The latin people of South Texas are a different class of people than a lot of the sewage that seeps across the border. South Texas starts resembling Mexico more than South Texas.
 
Funny thing is that I did not bring up race....other's may have..this is a human issue...not a racial/ethno/cultural issue...America is a counry of immigrants....Mexico preserves their cultural identity with their laws...America's "cultural" identity is diverse, and ever changing...that is what makes America different.
 
Funny thing is that I did not bring up race....

yes you did

You said:
I find it to be the height of bad taste and decorum to have anglo commando wannabees trying to change the direction that America has always been on

America's "cultural" identity is diverse, and ever changing...that is what makes America different.

no, it is not. It may be diverse in terms of regions which may be countries in and of themselves (North, South, Mountain states, West, Hawaii), but it is land with particular people and culture. Mexico has the same thing. People in Northern Mexico are much different than people in the Yucatan end of Mexico
America is not an abstract idea. Get off your soap box. You're giving me the creeps with all this fanatical screaming. You're saying that those who have had a culture and people here for generations don't have a right to our heritage and laws.

As Historian Prof. Clyde Wilson has said, "People don't live on idea's, they live on land."
 
Scary, isn't it? all this "screaming" over humans that don't look like you? So sad to be someone like you.


BTW, Clyde Wilson is a neo-confederate...not the kind of neighbor I want next door to me.
 
more screaming and putting me (and the rest in here) on the defensive by playing the race card.:rolleyes:

I'd be a fool to keep going with this.
 
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