With what should I replace 7mm Rem Mag ?
- Thread starter NorCal Hal
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LanceOregon
Moderator
I've never been a fan of such lightweight rifles. You take a thin #1 contour barrel, and then put flutes into it as well, to reduce the barrel even further. To me, that is just a recipe for bad accuracy, no matter who the gunmaker is. I think that the whole concept of that rifle model is a bad idea.
That is most strange. This fellow below shot his moose with a 7mm Mag, yet the bullet did not bounce off the animal. He only used a 140 gr bullet too:
This is all most difficult to explain.
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lefteyedom
New member
Keep the 7 Mag and add a 338 win mag. 225 grain in a 338 is about perfect.
billnourse
New member
I have a .338/06 that is only about 200FPS slower at any given bullet weight than the .338 WM, and it has a lot less recoil. I shot 20 shots from the bench with it this weekend with no problems. I couldn't have done that with the .338 Mag.
Only draw back is you pretty much have to be a reloader for it to be pratical.
Bill
Only draw back is you pretty much have to be a reloader for it to be pratical.
Bill
lefteyedom
New member
with a 338 win mag you would not need to shoot 20 times 
mapsjanhere
New member
Nor would you want to
NorCal Hal
New member
THANKS FOR ALL THE THOUGHTFUL AND VARIED RESPONSES. I APPRECIATE THEM ALL..I have been offline for a few days so will try to answer the questions raised.
1) The scope and mounts are good & tight. Same model Carl Ziess on both Weatherby 7mmRM & Win. M-70 30-06.
2) Both have muzzle brakes. The Win is the Win/Browning BOSS system so I am pretty use to firing with a MB. I do shoot the Win more because it is more accurate and consistent. I wear earplugs so the noise and recoil have not been a noticeable flinch factor.
3) The gunsmith at the Gun shop where I bought both rifles fired and confirmed the Weatherbys inaccuracy both times before returning it to the company. They supposedly did something with the lugs and rebeded the barrel.
4) All my measured shots are either from a Lead Sled or sand bags and bench so should be comparable.
5) As to Art Eatmans' comment that being confident at ranges beyod 400 yards is a "shooter problem not the cartridge". That may be but I don't carry my shooting bench and sand bags on hunting trips and my philosophy is that having a rifle with less drop and more energy at the target improves ones chances of a clean kill - rather than a wounded animal. IMHO neither the 30-06 or 7mm RM have that much energy for a large heavily skinned animal like an Elk or Moose at beyond 400 yards.
It seems to be that the 7mmRM, being .284 diameter, has a smaller clean kill area to hit than larger bullets with greater energy.
Three years ago I passed up a 400 yards shot at a nice Bull Moose (not sure I would do it again) because I was not confident I would drop rather than wound the animal. I MIGHT have been able to kneal or use shooting sticks but doing that in addition to considering bullet placement (I know the drop the table is taped on the side of each rifle) and wind drift went beyond my "on the sport" resources for the second day of this five day hunt. So YES that is a shooter deficiency.
On the last week Montana Mule deer hunt I wrote of in my original posting. We two shooters were looking for deer from 50- 300 yards. We found out the guide was looking 1-5 MILES. It was a open flat / rolling terrain with some trees along the creeks and valleys, but me (CA) and the other shooter (IL) are NOT USE to think in terms of laser designators and howitzers.
He said some clients shoot 800-1100 yards! Good for them! I wonder how much game they wounted profecting this talent. My 65 year old eyes and nerves know their limit and its not beyond 500 yards on a calm day with a good rest.
6) Given time I always use my laser range finder (good to 800 yards) and the Mule deer I took in MT was 265 yards trotting with a shot to the back of the head with the 30-06. He dropped in his tracks. Not sure I would have wanted to "experiment" with shots at 400-500 yards at a 1' diameter target (I try not to shoot game in the guts, legs, ass or jaw). The guide spotted these deer at about 3 miles, we drove to witin 2 miles and hiked 3-4 miles up and down ridges & canyons.
7) My shooting has been with different weight bullets in Rem Cor-Lok factory ammo, Federal premium Noslers, my own 59.0 GR IMR-4350 with Sierra Pro Hunters and Nosler Partitioned and while the Sierra seem to shoot the best the factory ammo better than the nosler partitioned the accuracy is ALWAYS less with the Weathergy 7mm RM than the Win 30-06.
8)BTW Both calibers are launching at about 2980- 3,000FPS
1) The scope and mounts are good & tight. Same model Carl Ziess on both Weatherby 7mmRM & Win. M-70 30-06.
2) Both have muzzle brakes. The Win is the Win/Browning BOSS system so I am pretty use to firing with a MB. I do shoot the Win more because it is more accurate and consistent. I wear earplugs so the noise and recoil have not been a noticeable flinch factor.
3) The gunsmith at the Gun shop where I bought both rifles fired and confirmed the Weatherbys inaccuracy both times before returning it to the company. They supposedly did something with the lugs and rebeded the barrel.
4) All my measured shots are either from a Lead Sled or sand bags and bench so should be comparable.
5) As to Art Eatmans' comment that being confident at ranges beyod 400 yards is a "shooter problem not the cartridge". That may be but I don't carry my shooting bench and sand bags on hunting trips and my philosophy is that having a rifle with less drop and more energy at the target improves ones chances of a clean kill - rather than a wounded animal. IMHO neither the 30-06 or 7mm RM have that much energy for a large heavily skinned animal like an Elk or Moose at beyond 400 yards.
It seems to be that the 7mmRM, being .284 diameter, has a smaller clean kill area to hit than larger bullets with greater energy.
Three years ago I passed up a 400 yards shot at a nice Bull Moose (not sure I would do it again) because I was not confident I would drop rather than wound the animal. I MIGHT have been able to kneal or use shooting sticks but doing that in addition to considering bullet placement (I know the drop the table is taped on the side of each rifle) and wind drift went beyond my "on the sport" resources for the second day of this five day hunt. So YES that is a shooter deficiency.
On the last week Montana Mule deer hunt I wrote of in my original posting. We two shooters were looking for deer from 50- 300 yards. We found out the guide was looking 1-5 MILES. It was a open flat / rolling terrain with some trees along the creeks and valleys, but me (CA) and the other shooter (IL) are NOT USE to think in terms of laser designators and howitzers.
He said some clients shoot 800-1100 yards! Good for them! I wonder how much game they wounted profecting this talent. My 65 year old eyes and nerves know their limit and its not beyond 500 yards on a calm day with a good rest.
6) Given time I always use my laser range finder (good to 800 yards) and the Mule deer I took in MT was 265 yards trotting with a shot to the back of the head with the 30-06. He dropped in his tracks. Not sure I would have wanted to "experiment" with shots at 400-500 yards at a 1' diameter target (I try not to shoot game in the guts, legs, ass or jaw). The guide spotted these deer at about 3 miles, we drove to witin 2 miles and hiked 3-4 miles up and down ridges & canyons.
7) My shooting has been with different weight bullets in Rem Cor-Lok factory ammo, Federal premium Noslers, my own 59.0 GR IMR-4350 with Sierra Pro Hunters and Nosler Partitioned and while the Sierra seem to shoot the best the factory ammo better than the nosler partitioned the accuracy is ALWAYS less with the Weathergy 7mm RM than the Win 30-06.
8)BTW Both calibers are launching at about 2980- 3,000FPS
Were you confident you could make that shot? If you were I'd say you could learn to shoot your 06 to 500 yards pretty easily.
What it takes is finding that one good load and sticking too it, quit changing up your ammo all the time. Run it over the chrony to learn the drop tables and practice shooting at that range. You don't need itty-bitty groups at 400+ yards all you need to do is consistantly ring a 8" gong. If you can ring the gong at the ranges you intend to hunt 95% or better of the time from field shooting positions I'd say you were ready. Don't just go the the range on the good days shoot on the crappy ones too, as they are more realistic of what you are going to encounter in the field anyway.
I once made a shot,I think it was 465 yds on an antelope.DRT neck shot.Only thing is,I was aiming heart lung and some breath of wind moved my bullet.
That could have been a gut shot had it blown the other way.Or an esophagus shot.I backed up and thought about things.I stopped taking that approach.
No put down or disrespect intended,just an honest question.Head shot on a trotting deer.In my experience that head moves up,down,and around at a trot.You got a good,clean kill,good for you.Did you choose the spot you hit?
I made another less than brilliant shot on an antelope once.I was coming over a rise and saw my buck.he saw me.Couldn't sit because the I couldn't see him.I thought,well,I'll shoot at his head ofhand.I'll miss,or get him.
he did a backflip .I started heading over and he got up and began leaving.he didn't go far before he stopped and looked back.I had a good sitting shot and finished it.I hit jaw with the first shot.
I have no brag or pride in either of my shots.They were a bad idea.I have learned something along the way.
I'm real comfortable with not pulling the trigger.There is always trying to get closer.that is quivering,high excitement fun.There is always that bigger one I see after I fill my tag..
So you have found a guide who subjected you to shooting behind you,and you have found a guide who advocates 800-1000 yd shots.
I dunno.Not the sort of guides I would prefer.
You do it your way,whatever works out.
I like to be close enough to hit a prairie dog if I'm shooting at something like an elk.
That could have been a gut shot had it blown the other way.Or an esophagus shot.I backed up and thought about things.I stopped taking that approach.
No put down or disrespect intended,just an honest question.Head shot on a trotting deer.In my experience that head moves up,down,and around at a trot.You got a good,clean kill,good for you.Did you choose the spot you hit?
I made another less than brilliant shot on an antelope once.I was coming over a rise and saw my buck.he saw me.Couldn't sit because the I couldn't see him.I thought,well,I'll shoot at his head ofhand.I'll miss,or get him.
he did a backflip .I started heading over and he got up and began leaving.he didn't go far before he stopped and looked back.I had a good sitting shot and finished it.I hit jaw with the first shot.
I have no brag or pride in either of my shots.They were a bad idea.I have learned something along the way.
I'm real comfortable with not pulling the trigger.There is always trying to get closer.that is quivering,high excitement fun.There is always that bigger one I see after I fill my tag..
So you have found a guide who subjected you to shooting behind you,and you have found a guide who advocates 800-1000 yd shots.
I dunno.Not the sort of guides I would prefer.
You do it your way,whatever works out.
I like to be close enough to hit a prairie dog if I'm shooting at something like an elk.
NorCal Hal
New member
No, Sorry I won't try to claim that I'm that good of a shot for a back of the head shot at 265 yards. The guide said I was "probably" concentrating on the big rack when I shot. I was sighted in 3" high at 100 yards per their request (I normally sight in dead on @ 200 yards.
When he dropped like a box of rocks I assumed I had hit him in the back of the neck or between the shoulder blades hitting the spine. Only the deer was more surprised (and maybe the guide) when we found the back of the head - brain shot. The deer was going almost straight away from me which made the shot easier.
I was shooting from a prone position using a bipod and trying not to puff like a steam engine after the 3+ miles of trying to keep up with a 28 year old guide as he ran up and down the valleys and ridges. My glasses had steamed up, I couldn't shed clothes fast enough and keep up with "speedy" but somehow made a good shot without killing myself first.
When he dropped like a box of rocks I assumed I had hit him in the back of the neck or between the shoulder blades hitting the spine. Only the deer was more surprised (and maybe the guide) when we found the back of the head - brain shot. The deer was going almost straight away from me which made the shot easier.
I was shooting from a prone position using a bipod and trying not to puff like a steam engine after the 3+ miles of trying to keep up with a 28 year old guide as he ran up and down the valleys and ridges. My glasses had steamed up, I couldn't shed clothes fast enough and keep up with "speedy" but somehow made a good shot without killing myself first.
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BusGunner007
New member
Looks like you used a .505 TYSON !!! 
I think it is pretty clear you have made up your mind, and that is not a bad thing. Move on from the Weatherby. So what? Who cares? You are more comfortable with something else, great. Seriously, I am NOT being sarcastic. How much of shooting is mental? I would argue, quite a bit if not most of shooting IS metal. If something does NOT work for you, why screw with it? Everyone has offered sage opinions based on their experiences. I love my 7mm Rem Mag Weatherby Vanguard. It has taken anmals on three continents. (Not all my doing, unfortunately). My dad hunts with a Rem. 700, my brother hunts with a Mark V, all of us in 7mm Rem Mag. Mine is accurate as all get out. I also have a 338 Win, 30-06, 243, etc. Find something new that you like (caliber or rifle). This is a big part of the "fun" which is intrinsic to the sport of shooting/hunting. Don't loose sleep over it. If it is not working for you, find something that does.
LanceOregon
Moderator
Since you like your Winchester Model 70 so much, why not get another? After all, why try something new, when you know a rifle that works well for you?
A lot of dealers have the new production Model 70's in stock now. You can even get a new super grade M70 in 300 Win mag for just over $1,000 Or the new M70 Coyote Lite in .300 WSM, for just under $1,000
If you really do want to insist on getting a lightweight rifle, then I would say give the new Browning X-Bolt a try. You can even get it with a BOSS muzzle brake, just as you have on my M70 30-06, to help tune the accuracy.
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A lot of dealers have the new production Model 70's in stock now. You can even get a new super grade M70 in 300 Win mag for just over $1,000 Or the new M70 Coyote Lite in .300 WSM, for just under $1,000
If you really do want to insist on getting a lightweight rifle, then I would say give the new Browning X-Bolt a try. You can even get it with a BOSS muzzle brake, just as you have on my M70 30-06, to help tune the accuracy.
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LanceOregon
Moderator
Dude:
He is looking to replace a 5 3/4 lb ultralight rifle.
A 5 3/4 lb rifle in 50 BMG would really hurt to shoot.
I doubt he wants to go with a heavy rifle.
Just look at how very thin the barrel is on this Weatherby Ultralight composite's barrel in this photo below. And here the barrel is fluted, to boot!
I suspect that this ultra thin barrel may be partially behind his accuracy problems.
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Yeah we're definetly talking about two different rifles, as the barrel difference that Lance pointed out might be part of the problem, HAVING SAID THAT, a doudle lung shot moose( or any creature for that matter), is a dead moose, and you should have got a rerfund.period..... That way you could buy your 65 year old ears some new hearing aids, because your probably tone-deaf in them after the idiot shot from behind you. And before anybody "knocks the old 7 mm rem mag, they need to watch "THE BEST OF THE WEST". On that program everyuthing they shoot is with the 7 mm, and they shoot it farther and make DRT kills with it. Norcal, try yourself another, if you want, or stick with the 06, And another thing tell your guide to slow down if you need to, they get paid to satisfy you on your hunt, not necessarily overexert, or blow your eardrums out!!!
That is a very nice deer, but to HAVE to make a shot like that, I would have passed, and had a little talk with the guide and the ranch owner! Somehow rushing up and down mountains just to get a running shot at a deer that doesn't make the book, just doesn't set right with me. I have'nt ever been on a guided hunt, so I really can't say from experience, but sounds like you may have got a few of the bad ones, and that shouldn't spoil your next guided hunt. Maybe one day I will be able to afford to go out west an hunt but for now I'll stick to Whitetails!
That is a very nice deer, but to HAVE to make a shot like that, I would have passed, and had a little talk with the guide and the ranch owner! Somehow rushing up and down mountains just to get a running shot at a deer that doesn't make the book, just doesn't set right with me. I have'nt ever been on a guided hunt, so I really can't say from experience, but sounds like you may have got a few of the bad ones, and that shouldn't spoil your next guided hunt. Maybe one day I will be able to afford to go out west an hunt but for now I'll stick to Whitetails!- Status