Winchester supergrade 338 winmag won't shoot. Need help please

On the other hand, its pretty sad such an expensive rifle would shoot so poorly with factory fodder. I mean not even 2 moa! If thats the case id sell it.
 
Thanks for the responses. I'm not gona sale the gun to a gunshop for someone else to have the same misery. I think I am going to have the gun rebarreled to 264 winmag.
 
You're a perfect candidate for embarking into handloading. Finding that precision, perfectly tuned consistiant load recipie for your specific barrel is just as gratifyng as shooting imo.
 
Prior to re-barreling I'd have the action bedded. Since you've confirmed the scope/mounts are good, the size groups you're talking about sounds like the action is not staying in the same place in the stock each shot.
 
Lite for caliber bullet combined with a slow twist rate makes for a bad combination. Try some 250-275 grain ammo.
 
Just like the OP, I have been experiencing the exact same problem with my Super Grade in 338 Win Mag!

All over the target, sometimes making horizontal strings across the target with very little elevation variance, then it will throw one 3-4 inches high, all at 100yds.

Sent 4 rds downrange at the 150yd target and made a 4 inch round-ish group... That was the closest thing to a group I have had. The last day I spent at the range it was cold so I had plenty of padding due to the extra layers of clothing... Recoil fatigue was not an issue, I could have fired it all day.

I literally waited 5 minutes or more between shots when firing to allow the barrel to cool as thoroughly as possible.

I am handloading, setting up my sizing die to only size enough to allow slight drag when locking down the bolt when chambering an empty case. Also, I determined my max COL and tried a batch loaded to Hodgdons COL spec, then tried a batch set to a COL that facilitated .025" jump between the ogive and lands. I did find that things did improve somewhat with heavier powder charges although little discernible difference between the 2 differing COL's...

My rounds consisted of 225gr Hornady SST pushed by 71.5gr IMR 4350. (Hodgdon lists max of 72gr of 4350, I did work up incrementally, no over pressure signs at all).

I bought this rifle brand new last november, and got it close enough to hunt with using the only box of factory ammo I could find as I was not set up to handload for 338. I am now setup up to handload.

It's been very frustrating, I have taken steps to tune my ammo to my rifle chamber and have seen very little if any improvement. Yes, it is shooting "minute of deer" but I think I am reasonable to expect 1.5" or smaller groups at 100yds. From what I see, this should be childsplay for this rifle/cartridge combo. My cheap little Remmy 700 ADL Synthetic chambered in 270 with a short 22" bbl and cheap Read-Head scope will group 1" at 100yds with regularity so long as I am on my game. Yes, I know I pulled a shot or 2, but 75% or more of my shots I am confident I executed the trigger squeeze properly. Most times with the rifle would discharge before I expected it to, as I gradually squeezed and was nice and steady on the bull.

Different powder?? Different bullet??? Longer COL for less bullet jump to the lands??? I was thinking I would swap the scope from my 270 on to the 338, but after reading this thread, I am not sure if I need to. The scope is a Pentax Lightseeker 3x9x40. Bases and rings are Leupold.

I was also thinking that it is me?? In fact, I was leaning more toward it being a flaw in my shooting technique than anything... Which hasn't made total sense to me as I am not green to shooting and I am able to shoot quite well with the 270. Believe it or not, the 270 doesn't FEEL as though it recoils that much less than the 338, I attribute that to the 270 being on a significantly smaller and lighter platform.

I am out of ideas myself other than to get different powders and bullets to try... And then keep edging the COL longer and longer hoping for the results I am looking for...

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated on this! :(
 
The action is factory bedded and both smith's said they did a good job of it. No signs of anything moving. The rifle is stunningly beautiful and the action and trigger are smooth as glass. I went a Lil heavy on the trigger because it is a magnum. 2lbs.
 
I had a 338 Mag Ruger 1S that would put 5 200gr Speer's over 72gr's of 4350 in under 3/4" at 100yds. Light bullets can shoot well.
 
I agree with handloading and tuningetc, but first I think you need to find out what's wrong with your rifle. Although I am not familiarwith the model, I did go and read many forum talks and the consensus seems to be that it's moderatelyaccurate and nice to look at. In fact, out of dozens of supposed owner testimonials, the only one complainingabout the poor accururacywas upset about only 1.5 MOA. It sounds like you have access to nearby shooting, whether its your property, a club or outdoor ranges, does anywhere near you have sleds that can be used? It's worth asking, I was suprised that a crappy outdoor range here would rent one for 5$. That's really only to prove the issue though, if you KNOW it's not the shooter, then obviously there is a defect. Different scopes? CHECK No wobble in stock(vice clamp)? CHECK Different shooters? CHECK Different mounts?? Crown checked?? Different ammo type(several)?? If all this is done and there is an issue, then the manufacturer should be called. You said the rifle was new. At the very least the manufacturer will test shoot it and that'll answer alot if it gets a clean bill.
 
Here is what I would do to try to wring this thing out.

1. Clean the rifle. To bare metal. I would use J-B bore paste and Kroil, with a copper-solvent in between to check for remaining copper. I had a M70 that became a 4" gun, and it turns out I wasn't getting the copper out. Clean it bare metal clean, fire three fouling shots, then check for group size.

2. You've ruled out the scope as being a problem, but are the mounts and rings concentric? Check and lap if necessary. I good scope in a bind can be a problem.

3. If you've adjusted the trigger to 2 lbs and checked the bedding, you've had the action out of the barrel. Torque those bolts to a max of 30-35 lbs. Maybe less.

4. For consistency of group size, all the pressures and rebound points of the rifle have to be reproducible from the bench. Do the same thing every time. There are some good tutorials about the best way to do so out there.



My guess is one of two things: Copper in the bore, or some intrinsic problem with the barrel. If you rule all else out, send the gun back to Winchester. It will be way more cost effective than replacing the barrel yourself, unless that's truly what you want to do.
 
Decided to call winchester back. ThE guy I talked to this time said that's no problem put it back in the box and ship it back. I am going to try a new gun smith a hour away. Let him try to work up a load or figure out what's wrong. He said if he can't work up a load for it he will send it back to winchester for me. Sounds like a win win situation. Dav-tac is the name of the gunshop. If anybody has anything bad to say about them please let me know now.
 
Boogershooter: As you can see in my post above, I am experiencing the same exact problem you are with the same exact rifle/cartridge combo.

Please keep us posted on what happens. I may follow suit if more experimentation on my part with my reloads doesn't yield positive results..

I would be 110% satisfied with 1.5 MOA groups from this rifle, but it's lucky to be 4 or 5 MOA at this point.
 
From what I've been told the 338 winmag with thin barrels is notorious for not shooting good. First is alot of people can't handle the recoil. Second alot of scopes and or rings can't handle it. Then comes the theories about the rifle recoiling before the bullet leaves the end of the barrel. Anyway Im not smart enough and neither are the people who have looked at it thus far are. I have a feeling that a heavier bullet seated further out will improve accuracy a bit but not enough for me. I've only sent a couple of guns back n the past to the manufacturer to relieve it back saying it was fixed and they were NOT. So most likely it will end up with a new heavier custom barrel. Either 264 or 338 winmag. I already own both so it's hard to decide.
 
Perhaps I missed this in the thread, does the first round of each range session always hit at the same poi? If you go to the range on 3 different days and only shoot 1 round on the same target what kind of group do you get?
 
Havnt thought about the first shot thing. I got a big doe this morning as its opening day of muzzle loader. Will have to wait til Monday now to get the winchester to the gunsmith. I will certainly ask them about pressure bedding.
 
Well finally got this rifle to another gunsmith. First thing they did was put leupold mark 4 rings. Ordered a new vx3 scope and a box of federal fusion 225 grain. Won't get to shoot til that all gets in. One employee told me they have never had a factory rifle that wouldn't shoot less than moa at 100 yards with the fusion ammo. You should have seen the look on his face when my wife told him (well if the fusion ammo is that good then why is anybody buying custom rifles and reloading their own anmo? Seems like that will put yall out of business. ) Poor fellow didn't know what to say. But anyway after we see how it's gona shoot with these magic bullets we'll go from there.
 
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