Will you let him do it?

[James Montes]

A LEO must have either PROBABLE CAUSE or reasonable belief of imminent danger in order to search you, so if he is asking for your CCW weapon it because you are doing something that gives him/her the power/authority to do so. I know in my home state of TX one must present their CCW license with drivers license when confronted by LEO. Remember LEOs are the "good guys" so give them a break. They do a job that most people would not even attempt, nor would want to do... There is nothing glamorous about their work, they are social workers who happen to carry guns, lets give them the respect that they most certainly deserve. If you keep your nose clean, and stay concealed this is not an issue...


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SURE SHOT

 

[paltik]

Here's the real problem of the Filipinos..

1. A 'hoodlum' policeman will search you for your legally purchased gun.And confiscate it and let you forget about it.
2. A 'true' BG owns a licensed gun and has a permit to carry FA outside res. (required for his job).
3. A gun can be bought legally with the ff. requirements:
mayors,police,court,barangay,etc.etc. clearances which has a corresponding "price tag".That's why the BG has a legal gun.
4.When a man buys his first gun, he must get all the requirements.
-when he buys his 2nd,he must present again (pay again) for all the requirements so must justify his reason for owning his 2nd gun.
-same for the 3rd,4th,5ht,6th,etc.
-equals big "money" which really redundant.

 

[stdalire]

Paltik:

We all know that in PI, we can only legally owned up to 4 firearms. 2 pistols or revolvers, 1 shotgun and 1 .22 rifle a total of 4 firearms.

Even it is true that there is an equivalent of price tag of a clearance but that is only good for the Police, Mayor and barangay but not the Court and NBI clearance. Well I haven't patronized such practice though I know there is one. The purpose of the price tag is to facilitate or shortening the time to secure but not a guarranty you have escaped a crime if found out later. If you can pass thru these two clearances Court & NBI without going thru the normal process "you be long to the well connected network or someone special inside". As there is always exception to the rule in all parts of the world.

Despite of having all the clearances, the last say is in the Firearms & Explosives Division at the PNP HQ if they approve it or not. And it is harder to get the Permit to carry and very few has Permit to carry if we take the ratio of the Philippine Population against the holders.

By the way owning 2 pistols is only okay for those who are Gun Club members with the pretext that it will be used for Competition if not really intended to that purpose but again an endorsement of the Gun Club President, but still it is not that easy to buy 2 pistols as it will be questioned, not unless there is a strong ground to have 2 pcs. But the regulations is 1 pistol or revolver, 1 shotgun and 1 .22 rifle. No more no less, unless you have unregistered inventories. So, we have limit as to the numbers of gun we legally purchased.

I am with you in item 1, stating about the "hoodlum policeman who might search and and take the legally purchased firearms". It is okay if you know the name of the Police it can be retrieved by reporting it to the Phil. Nat'l Police Hd Qtrs.

I can see now from this thread that mostly people in US will yield to the Police for search without any resistance, which is in contrast to Philippines that we don't just let a Policeman search us without any warrant or enough grounds to prove that the person to be searched has committed or about to commit a crime or look upon as there is probable caused as dangerous character to public safety. So its up to us if we follow or not the police in our country.

"No matter how crooked the system, no one is above the law". And I always live with the rule of law.



[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 18, 1999).]

 

[oberkommando]

Tired of hearing of legal carry "right to keep and BEAR arms" (does not say anything about license) Vermont only state not violating constitution by not requiring CCW to carry, all laws in violation of Constitution are null and void.

I agree mossyrock, buddies and I were shooting in local canyon area when sheriffs showed up, drop your weapons, hell no, placed benelli M1 Super in back of truck as did my buddies with 2 mini 14s and two 45 1911s the police did not seem to protest. I guess when its 5 better armed tincan plinkers against 3 officers they decided discretion is the better part of valor and didn't want to start shooting over placing gun vs dropping loaded gun. As I recall one on the "hangun safty concerns in Kalifornia is the drop test". My old "unsafe 1911" might suddenly go off and wouldn't want to have it out with the police because of that, and they definitly would not want to have it out with our group that day.

In the end they said our shooting area was perfect for shooting but unfortuatly was not zoned as such as is most of kali. I am not anti law if this sounds this way, have cousin, brother, and uncle in Sheriffs Office. My point is how polite people get when they know they are outgunned.

By the way, police had stoped their cars about 100 yards away form our vehicles and used a loud speaker to talk.

Peace through superior firepower.

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited October 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by oberkommando (edited October 18, 1999).]

 

[stdalire]

I just want to add something: What is the use of carrying a weapon for self defense when everytime a person with a badge feel like checking someone on the street with a loud shout of FREEEEEZE!!! drop your gun, or a sudden attack of your very person doing body search.

oberkommando, pointed a good point to remember, that if a person is fully armed it will never be questioned by just few cops.

To my mind, only unruly person in authority will be doing search on the street. But mostly the officers don't. My personal experience, I mostly encounter problem with the lowly echelon of police officers who act like warrior if they see a person that is weak.

Also, in my country I would like to add: That even our former Head of the Department of Justice "Franklin Drilon" now a senator advise the public the following things to do if being checked or flagged down by a Polie Officer.

 Stop as any law-abiding citizen would do.
 Without getting out of your vehicle, allow the officers to do a visual search.
 If asked to alight or to open the doors and the trunk, politely ask the officers for a search warrant.
 If there being none and the officers persist in conducting a further search, but you believe you have done no wrong, tell the police officers that you are objecting to a further search (I might add, in a polite and never antagonizing manner).
 If forced for reasons of safety to yield to an extensive search, ask for a witness to the search and keep your eyes on the officers, to guard against the planting of evidence of any kind. Get the name of the officers and get in touch with a lawyer.

In this way it will preserve our privacy and honor our dignity being a freeman and a law abiding citizen. Of my being a law abiding citizen it is not necessarily mean to yield whatever the people in authority will tell me to do so. In that way, I feel like the civilian is always inferior to his civil rights when accosted by a person in authority, liked when being freeze and being search for anything and it turns out nothing.

I based everything I say from advises of law enforcers, lawmakers and lawyers. My only purpose in this topic is to see people reactions with different nationalities if ever they are in a situation like this. I don'tmean to agitate. For sure the majority does not like to be treated as such if he is legal.

An additional word, how do you feel when you see BBC on the TV that the forces in Timor is tying the hands of the suspected militias being kicked and put to the ground (they are still suspects not yet convicted by the law) Boy!! I remember when I was still a very poor guy and cannot buy a .45 for 50,000 pesos in Philippines and eat with the officers in 5 star hotel I cannot still get even to SOME of the Oppressors.


[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 18, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 19, 1999).]