Will you let him do it?
- Thread starter stdalire
- Start date
- Status
stdalire,
If I was robbing a bank, and the policeman was far enough away...maybe. But you are playing with your life now.
If I was a person without a concealed carry permit and was being arrested for it, I would let the cop take it...not enough reason to be killed for.
_________________________________________
Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
If I was robbing a bank, and the policeman was far enough away...maybe. But you are playing with your life now.
If I was a person without a concealed carry permit and was being arrested for it, I would let the cop take it...not enough reason to be killed for.
_________________________________________
Ban the bans.
http://members.xoom.com/urbansniper/home.html
If a police officer tells me to "Freeze" or "Stop", I'll do just that. I have no desire to end up dead by doing something stupid, like drawing my weapon. Why would I want to pull a gun on an officer anyway? I'm not an ethically-challenged criminal. I legally carry a firearm, so there is no harm in having an officer temporarily releive me of it to check me out.
My two cents, DWM
My two cents, DWM
Provided he is a policeman, why not?
If you're carrying legally and not engaged in any criminal enterprise, what do you have to worry about? Your gun will have to be returned to you anyway. If you resist, you might wind up getting shot and that is a heckuva way to mess up your day. If you wind up shooting the cop, you can be sure of a few years in the Steel Bar Hotel, a felony rap, and no more guns. So, why not?
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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
If you're carrying legally and not engaged in any criminal enterprise, what do you have to worry about? Your gun will have to be returned to you anyway. If you resist, you might wind up getting shot and that is a heckuva way to mess up your day. If you wind up shooting the cop, you can be sure of a few years in the Steel Bar Hotel, a felony rap, and no more guns. So, why not?
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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
hksigwalther
New member
Er...if the policeman clearly identified himself as such, in what case would you NOT allow him to remove your weapon?
- Ron V.
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- Ron V.
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Gwinnydapooh
Retired Screen Name
Boy, am I glad to hear you guys posting sense. I don't carry but I was cringing at the question!
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Don
"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
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Don
"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
Greetings to all: 450Gary;Moderator;Hksigwalther: Your action is good if the officer is in good faith of checking the firearms and has no other intention illegal or harming the person who legally concealling the firearms.
Of course if the person caught has no licensed or permit to carry, the officer has all the rights to apprehend him or even such drastic actions will be applied by the police he is deemed justified.
Pilate,ankeny: I am portraying a person who is legally carrying a firearms with all the license & permit to carry and well concealed his gun. He is just walking on the street and suddenly freezed by a policeman because the policeman suspected or knows it that the guy is carrying a weapon.
For me, it looks like it is hard to give in the gun to the officer because I am not sure if the policeman is in good faith in just checking the legallity of my gun. How about if he has other intention such as interested in the gun itself or it may be used by him to shoot the person and after the events, the legal holder will just be framed up as resisting arrest, looking as a suspicious character etc etc.
Would it not be enough to to talk to him nicely telling him that you have a gun but has all the legal documents to possess and carrying outside residence, then I'll show the Permit to carry and the license but I am not handing over the firearms to him.
I believe that if I'll do this and the officer is educated enough and can see also in me that I am not showing atrocities or violent behaviour to him, perhaps he will be contented with the documents or if he wants he can accompany me to their office to check the license nos. etc. to the database.
I was not yet checked on the street but if in case, then I think I will only show my licensed and permit to carry documents not let the officers take my guns by himself.
I know there are many legal gun holders who won't just let their gun taken by an arresting officer on the street as there is doubt also as to the intention of the apprehending officer.
Please correct me if I stated something wrong hereon and remind me if I need to clarify something, as different countries has varied laws.
Just my opinion.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
Of course if the person caught has no licensed or permit to carry, the officer has all the rights to apprehend him or even such drastic actions will be applied by the police he is deemed justified.
Pilate,ankeny: I am portraying a person who is legally carrying a firearms with all the license & permit to carry and well concealed his gun. He is just walking on the street and suddenly freezed by a policeman because the policeman suspected or knows it that the guy is carrying a weapon.
For me, it looks like it is hard to give in the gun to the officer because I am not sure if the policeman is in good faith in just checking the legallity of my gun. How about if he has other intention such as interested in the gun itself or it may be used by him to shoot the person and after the events, the legal holder will just be framed up as resisting arrest, looking as a suspicious character etc etc.
Would it not be enough to to talk to him nicely telling him that you have a gun but has all the legal documents to possess and carrying outside residence, then I'll show the Permit to carry and the license but I am not handing over the firearms to him.
I believe that if I'll do this and the officer is educated enough and can see also in me that I am not showing atrocities or violent behaviour to him, perhaps he will be contented with the documents or if he wants he can accompany me to their office to check the license nos. etc. to the database.
I was not yet checked on the street but if in case, then I think I will only show my licensed and permit to carry documents not let the officers take my guns by himself.
I know there are many legal gun holders who won't just let their gun taken by an arresting officer on the street as there is doubt also as to the intention of the apprehending officer.
Please correct me if I stated something wrong hereon and remind me if I need to clarify something, as different countries has varied laws.
Just my opinion.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
stdalire,
A police officer's primary task in his/her daily work it to make sure he/she gets home to spouce, kids, and pets. To a sworn peace officer, everybody is a potential threat. Their first priority is to take any potential threat and make it a non-threat.
If an officer has you at gun point, you are at advised to follow the officer's direction. Most training tells the officer to disarm the subject themselves. Very few officers I know and used to work with will allow ANYBODY to draw their own weapon and give it to the officer. That situation poses to much of a potential threat. If you refuse to follow an officer's commands, you can at least expect the situation to escalate which may include you getting your arse kicked, charged with at least a misdemeanor or possibly a felony (because there's a firearm involved).
Remember, the officer is there to serve and protect society at large. They are also going to make sure they are going home when the shift is over, and if that means you get arrested, beat up, or a worst shot, then so be it. If an officer would like to see your weapon or relieve you of it, best hand it over, you can always verbalize you have a permit. And, when the officer asks to see you ID (and he will), hand him your CCW permit and your DL and everything should be fine.
If mistakes are made, or right violated better to settle them in a court room if necessary than a funeral home.
Best,
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"By His stripes we are healed..."
PeterGunn
A police officer's primary task in his/her daily work it to make sure he/she gets home to spouce, kids, and pets. To a sworn peace officer, everybody is a potential threat. Their first priority is to take any potential threat and make it a non-threat.
If an officer has you at gun point, you are at advised to follow the officer's direction. Most training tells the officer to disarm the subject themselves. Very few officers I know and used to work with will allow ANYBODY to draw their own weapon and give it to the officer. That situation poses to much of a potential threat. If you refuse to follow an officer's commands, you can at least expect the situation to escalate which may include you getting your arse kicked, charged with at least a misdemeanor or possibly a felony (because there's a firearm involved).
Remember, the officer is there to serve and protect society at large. They are also going to make sure they are going home when the shift is over, and if that means you get arrested, beat up, or a worst shot, then so be it. If an officer would like to see your weapon or relieve you of it, best hand it over, you can always verbalize you have a permit. And, when the officer asks to see you ID (and he will), hand him your CCW permit and your DL and everything should be fine.
If mistakes are made, or right violated better to settle them in a court room if necessary than a funeral home.
Best,
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"By His stripes we are healed..."
PeterGunn
What do you have to fear from the police if you have a permit for your weapon? A CCW gives you a legal right to have it on you.
I don't think that there are a lot of evil, murderous, ill-intentioned officers out there looking to frame the average Joe. I've known many officers and they have all been extremely nice, upstanding individuals. Very kind people. They're just average people like you or me doing a job. If they want your gun, for everyone's safety, let THEM retrieve it from you. If they want to see your CCW first, let 'em see that. Why would you want to do anything to endanger your status as a law-abiding, legally-carrying citizen?
If you are legally carrying a concealed weapon, why should an officer stop you? By law, concealed means that he/she shouldn't be able to see it in the first place?
Even if you think that there are officers that are out to get you, let them temporarily take your gun. If an officer has to fight for your weapon, you'll end up shot or jailed. You shure won't have your gun then.
I don't think that there are a lot of evil, murderous, ill-intentioned officers out there looking to frame the average Joe. I've known many officers and they have all been extremely nice, upstanding individuals. Very kind people. They're just average people like you or me doing a job. If they want your gun, for everyone's safety, let THEM retrieve it from you. If they want to see your CCW first, let 'em see that. Why would you want to do anything to endanger your status as a law-abiding, legally-carrying citizen?
If you are legally carrying a concealed weapon, why should an officer stop you? By law, concealed means that he/she shouldn't be able to see it in the first place?
Even if you think that there are officers that are out to get you, let them temporarily take your gun. If an officer has to fight for your weapon, you'll end up shot or jailed. You shure won't have your gun then.
PeterGunn & DWM:
Nice to hear the comments how a P. officer was trained to deal with a certain situation he thinks it is a threat to him.
You mentioned that if I am stopped at gunpoint and I must have to follow all the officer’s direction.
So, it means that if I am walking with my gun having a CCW, and the officers want to check, I must abide all to his directions, and the civilians has no rights to resist. Is this not against illegal search and infringe the right of the individual for privacy.
DWM:
I think, even a gun is concealed (covered by our shirts) on the waist, still it can be detected as a gun, to a trained Police Officer, they can distinguish if a gun or not is carried by a person. Even me as Civilian, I can determine if a person is carrying a gun or not even covered, as long as it is placed on the body of the individual especially around the waist, side, front or back side. So, it is not a matter of the definition of concealed per se, but as long as a gun is not exposed. Let say, my gun is tucked on my waist but it is bulging. He cannot see actually but he knows it is a gun and he want to checked it.
Yes there are many good officers, and many are my friends also and had helped me and I had helped them too, there are no doubts of that, but I am only bringing the topic in case someone will be in this situation and what will be their reaction. I wish all P.Officers who will conduct body search like this to the suspected individual will abide all rules and are all in good faith.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
Nice to hear the comments how a P. officer was trained to deal with a certain situation he thinks it is a threat to him.
You mentioned that if I am stopped at gunpoint and I must have to follow all the officer’s direction.
So, it means that if I am walking with my gun having a CCW, and the officers want to check, I must abide all to his directions, and the civilians has no rights to resist. Is this not against illegal search and infringe the right of the individual for privacy.
DWM:
I think, even a gun is concealed (covered by our shirts) on the waist, still it can be detected as a gun, to a trained Police Officer, they can distinguish if a gun or not is carried by a person. Even me as Civilian, I can determine if a person is carrying a gun or not even covered, as long as it is placed on the body of the individual especially around the waist, side, front or back side. So, it is not a matter of the definition of concealed per se, but as long as a gun is not exposed. Let say, my gun is tucked on my waist but it is bulging. He cannot see actually but he knows it is a gun and he want to checked it.
Yes there are many good officers, and many are my friends also and had helped me and I had helped them too, there are no doubts of that, but I am only bringing the topic in case someone will be in this situation and what will be their reaction. I wish all P.Officers who will conduct body search like this to the suspected individual will abide all rules and are all in good faith.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 06, 1999).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Yes - yeild... then show your valid CCW permit. He would then HAVE to GIVE IT BACK as he has no right to keep it. But he does (proven in court) have the right to hold on to it for Officer Safety.
I have been in this situation before a couple times. Heres what I did and how it went.
Officer just stopped me and asked for my DL and Registration.
"Officer, I must tell you that I hold a weapon permit and have it with me at this time."
The officer asked where the weapon was and what it was - then asked me to step out of the car." (I was wondering about that - asking me to get out of my car - seemed to be a bad tactic - but I complied)
I (under watchfull eyes) pulled out my wallet and showed him my CCW, DL - had yet to get into the glove box for the reg.
He was looking at me and questioned that I really had said gun on my person - so I lifted my white polo shirt and showed him the full sized automatic. He was impressed.
He gave me a verbal warning about talking on a cell phone (Leave me alone, I know it was was wrong and I dont do it anymore). And then he let me go. He did not even check my DL other than a glance - nor did he bother anyfurther with things like my expired tag (by a couple days) or ask for the registration. He did ask me about the holster. (Galco Concealable)
Some time later I was doing ah... lets just say over 95 MPH across the desert and was pulled over by Utah HP.
We started out the same way. But this time he asked for me to slowly take the gun out and hand it to him. He set it down on the hood of his cruiser... Mentioned that it took him 7 miles to catch up to me (
) and then asked about my car (former State Police car - Caprice, LT1 engine - my baby, but she dont run well - again - right now), gun and stuff... We talked HK stuff and about pistol training and tactics for about 5 minutes and at that point told me to reholster , slow the hell down and have a good day.
Both times - no ticket... I know - I was lucky as hell and blatantly deserved the fines, tickets and what not.
When you show the Officer your legal - your a good John Q Public... Then you should have no problems.
An FBI guy I talked to didnt even care that I was packing. He just wanted to gab...
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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
I have been in this situation before a couple times. Heres what I did and how it went.
Officer just stopped me and asked for my DL and Registration.
"Officer, I must tell you that I hold a weapon permit and have it with me at this time."
The officer asked where the weapon was and what it was - then asked me to step out of the car." (I was wondering about that - asking me to get out of my car - seemed to be a bad tactic - but I complied)
I (under watchfull eyes) pulled out my wallet and showed him my CCW, DL - had yet to get into the glove box for the reg.
He was looking at me and questioned that I really had said gun on my person - so I lifted my white polo shirt and showed him the full sized automatic. He was impressed.
He gave me a verbal warning about talking on a cell phone (Leave me alone, I know it was was wrong and I dont do it anymore). And then he let me go. He did not even check my DL other than a glance - nor did he bother anyfurther with things like my expired tag (by a couple days) or ask for the registration. He did ask me about the holster. (Galco Concealable)
Some time later I was doing ah... lets just say over 95 MPH across the desert and was pulled over by Utah HP.
We started out the same way. But this time he asked for me to slowly take the gun out and hand it to him. He set it down on the hood of his cruiser... Mentioned that it took him 7 miles to catch up to me (
) and then asked about my car (former State Police car - Caprice, LT1 engine - my baby, but she dont run well - again - right now), gun and stuff... We talked HK stuff and about pistol training and tactics for about 5 minutes and at that point told me to reholster , slow the hell down and have a good day. Both times - no ticket... I know - I was lucky as hell and blatantly deserved the fines, tickets and what not.
When you show the Officer your legal - your a good John Q Public... Then you should have no problems.
An FBI guy I talked to didnt even care that I was packing. He just wanted to gab...
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Not all Liberals are annoying... Some are Dead.
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
stdalire,
I don't know about in the Phillipines, but in Oklahoma, concealed MEANS completely concealed. Concealed means that your weapon should be completely hidden from view (no printing/bulging) and nobody should have the slightest hint that you are carrying. A visible weapon, even the hint of one, is going to alarm a lot of people and is going to draw a lot of attention to you. Keeping the gun COMPLETELY hidden is to your advantage. If a t-shirt cannot completely conceal your weapon, you need to wear something heavier or look at alternatives like pocket holsters.
Yes, officers are trained to look for hidden weapons (printing, posture, etc.), but if you are doing your job of concealing correctly, they shouldn't notice.
My two cents, DWM
[This message has been edited by DWM (edited October 07, 1999).]
I don't know about in the Phillipines, but in Oklahoma, concealed MEANS completely concealed. Concealed means that your weapon should be completely hidden from view (no printing/bulging) and nobody should have the slightest hint that you are carrying. A visible weapon, even the hint of one, is going to alarm a lot of people and is going to draw a lot of attention to you. Keeping the gun COMPLETELY hidden is to your advantage. If a t-shirt cannot completely conceal your weapon, you need to wear something heavier or look at alternatives like pocket holsters.
Yes, officers are trained to look for hidden weapons (printing, posture, etc.), but if you are doing your job of concealing correctly, they shouldn't notice.
My two cents, DWM
[This message has been edited by DWM (edited October 07, 1999).]
These questions are a little confusing. What reason would you have NOT to allow the police to check your weapon and permit? If the officer suspects you are carrying you're printing. If he knows you are carrying you've allowed your piece to be spotted (both may be violations in some areas). I really don't know of any police officers who go around looking for CC holders so they can take their weapon, shoot them and then frame them for a crime. I think if you were asked by a police officer to surrender your weapon while he/she checked the legality of the weapon and refused, you would find yourself in a heap of trouble very quickly. The outcome of a confrontation like that could turn out badly for you (death?). If you refuse, what message are you sending the officer? 1. I don't have a permit and am carrying illegaly. 2. I have a stolen gun and don't want you to see it. 3. I'm not forkin it over because I'm going to use it now. I can garuntee you there are very few officers who will play that game. If you are concerned about legalities of the search, contact an attorney afterward. I would suggest that you comply with the officer's request. The consequences of not doing so could be pretty stiff. You are better off CONCEALING your firearm so that you are never noticed. Shake
[This message has been edited by Shake (edited October 07, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Shake (edited October 07, 1999).]
The Sig Man
New member
The most of the policemen are not well trained. They usually freak out when something happens. So, even a little thing you do might scare them. When they get scared, they draw and shoot whatever standing in front of them; do you remember the NEW YORK incident that two cops shot 45 bullets on a civilian just because they thought he had a gun. Always remember, they are not well trained(why do you think that cops gather around at the seven eleven so much?). This is the one of the reason that why they want Hi-capacity magazines themselve(so they can use as a machine gun like). Thus, always be careful what you do in front of the cops.
Greetings to all:
Dave, yes I am referring to a situation in the Philippines. So, it is really different in US that if a police officer will check someone he could just give in himself. In my country no, you cannot check someone without any threat from the guy or is actually committing a crime.
Even I am carrying a weapon and a policeman can notice it, he cannot just say, may I look your weapon if legal or illegal. So, long as my weapon is not displayed or exposed to public view.
The following are the conditions for somebody having a permit to carry Firearms Outside Residence. Be it a Policeman, Military, Agents or a Civilian.
1. Permit is non-transferable.
2. The firearm must not be displayed or exposed to public view.
3. The firearm must not be carried inside public drinking places, cabarets, public dance halls, public amusement places, or while attending civic, political or religious rallies and meetings.
4. The unexpired license or authority to possess the firearm must always be carried with this Permit. Expired License should be renewed.
Violations of any of the above conditions will nullify or invalidate the Permit to carry firearm and the license, and the holder shall be charged for infringement of the Law, if evidence warrants.
The above-mentioned items is a Philippine National Police Conditions if someone is holding a valid Permit to Carry Firearms outside residence.
So, base on the stated conditions if I did not transgress any of it, what is the business of the police officer to check me if I have a weapon or not if he just noticed that I am carrying one, especially if I am just only walking on the street. I am emphasizing here that whilst I am walking on the street that there is no gun ban in that area. If entering restricted area yes, I will yield, or if I am entering a building where gun are not allowed inside, I will have my gun deposited by them. I repeat, if I am just walking on the street.
But I noticed many Law enforcer does not know the exact essence of the above. To my interpretation, even a policeman, military or a law enforcer if he is not on duty he cannot carry firearms if he has no Permit to Carry, not belong to the plain clothes unit, doing follow up work, or not belong to the intelligence group . But for the sake of being in the force, they carry a firearm, thinking that no one will dare to check them also.
But I have a true story to tell that one Policeman whom I bailed out, that he was caught carrying a weapon without license. He was surprised by other unit law enforcers while he was letting his car fixed in a motor shop. He was jailed and not even one of his officers had help him (I pity him) but able to get out through bail also, and when he was out, the Plaintiff banished of reason I do not know so the case was closed.
DWM - If I secured my carry weapon to the most inner part within my body, where no one could hardly notice. How can I draw it easily in case there is imminent threat to my life?
Shake, I am only presuming that if in case we are freezed on the street to be questioned because of a weapon we are carrying. Shall we yield or we just give in to the Police Officer's directions? Other said yes, the rest give other alternatives to choose from to avoid shoot-out. I am not pinpointing that this is a practice of them to hunt someone for this purpose. But IN CASE only.
I am talking factual things relating to guns so I am trying to get opinions because any body who is holding a gun might or will have to experience unexpected things. But of course we have different laws.
Our intention in having a gun is to avoid shooting for just any kind of altercations only, but we should know that we cannot foresee actual future events and also protect our life and personal honor. This is not to demean our brothers in uniform but to learn how to avoid unintentional shooting out.
Thanks,
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 07, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 11, 1999).]
Dave, yes I am referring to a situation in the Philippines. So, it is really different in US that if a police officer will check someone he could just give in himself. In my country no, you cannot check someone without any threat from the guy or is actually committing a crime.
Even I am carrying a weapon and a policeman can notice it, he cannot just say, may I look your weapon if legal or illegal. So, long as my weapon is not displayed or exposed to public view.
The following are the conditions for somebody having a permit to carry Firearms Outside Residence. Be it a Policeman, Military, Agents or a Civilian.
1. Permit is non-transferable.
2. The firearm must not be displayed or exposed to public view.
3. The firearm must not be carried inside public drinking places, cabarets, public dance halls, public amusement places, or while attending civic, political or religious rallies and meetings.
4. The unexpired license or authority to possess the firearm must always be carried with this Permit. Expired License should be renewed.
Violations of any of the above conditions will nullify or invalidate the Permit to carry firearm and the license, and the holder shall be charged for infringement of the Law, if evidence warrants.
The above-mentioned items is a Philippine National Police Conditions if someone is holding a valid Permit to Carry Firearms outside residence.
So, base on the stated conditions if I did not transgress any of it, what is the business of the police officer to check me if I have a weapon or not if he just noticed that I am carrying one, especially if I am just only walking on the street. I am emphasizing here that whilst I am walking on the street that there is no gun ban in that area. If entering restricted area yes, I will yield, or if I am entering a building where gun are not allowed inside, I will have my gun deposited by them. I repeat, if I am just walking on the street.
But I noticed many Law enforcer does not know the exact essence of the above. To my interpretation, even a policeman, military or a law enforcer if he is not on duty he cannot carry firearms if he has no Permit to Carry, not belong to the plain clothes unit, doing follow up work, or not belong to the intelligence group . But for the sake of being in the force, they carry a firearm, thinking that no one will dare to check them also.
But I have a true story to tell that one Policeman whom I bailed out, that he was caught carrying a weapon without license. He was surprised by other unit law enforcers while he was letting his car fixed in a motor shop. He was jailed and not even one of his officers had help him (I pity him) but able to get out through bail also, and when he was out, the Plaintiff banished of reason I do not know so the case was closed.
DWM - If I secured my carry weapon to the most inner part within my body, where no one could hardly notice. How can I draw it easily in case there is imminent threat to my life?
Shake, I am only presuming that if in case we are freezed on the street to be questioned because of a weapon we are carrying. Shall we yield or we just give in to the Police Officer's directions? Other said yes, the rest give other alternatives to choose from to avoid shoot-out. I am not pinpointing that this is a practice of them to hunt someone for this purpose. But IN CASE only.
I am talking factual things relating to guns so I am trying to get opinions because any body who is holding a gun might or will have to experience unexpected things. But of course we have different laws.
Our intention in having a gun is to avoid shooting for just any kind of altercations only, but we should know that we cannot foresee actual future events and also protect our life and personal honor. This is not to demean our brothers in uniform but to learn how to avoid unintentional shooting out.
Thanks,
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 07, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited October 11, 1999).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A police officer's primary task in his/her daily work it to make sure he/she gets home to spouce, kids, and pets.[/quote]
Oh how I hate that line. The first time I read it, I thought "What a great line of thinking. Do you job, but make sure you survive to get home to what really matters." The more I read it though, the more it points out how different law enforcement is from J.Q Public.
This is just my reaction to the line, not really my opinion. The only reason I bring it up is to point out that however noble the intention, it can always be taken differently. Lines like this, along with "For LEO and Military use Only", LEO vs civilian, etc,, only seem to drive a wedge.
The afterthough that I am left with is why should you (LEO) consider you life, wife family and pet any more precious than I do mine? This is just one of the "hot themes" that those opposed to CCW in Ohio are playing up. Instead of relying on the facts, they play at the emotions.
PeterGunn,
I don't deny that you have every right to walk out the front door expecting to come home at night. The sad fact is that you (or at least your counterpart here in Ohio) are given a better chance of survival than millions of others are. All I (we) ask is to be given the same chance. I know I ain't much, but my wife and dog seem kinda fond of me
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CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
[This message has been edited by Hal (edited October 07, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Hal (edited October 07, 1999).]
Oh how I hate that line. The first time I read it, I thought "What a great line of thinking. Do you job, but make sure you survive to get home to what really matters." The more I read it though, the more it points out how different law enforcement is from J.Q Public.
This is just my reaction to the line, not really my opinion. The only reason I bring it up is to point out that however noble the intention, it can always be taken differently. Lines like this, along with "For LEO and Military use Only", LEO vs civilian, etc,, only seem to drive a wedge.
The afterthough that I am left with is why should you (LEO) consider you life, wife family and pet any more precious than I do mine? This is just one of the "hot themes" that those opposed to CCW in Ohio are playing up. Instead of relying on the facts, they play at the emotions.
PeterGunn,
I don't deny that you have every right to walk out the front door expecting to come home at night. The sad fact is that you (or at least your counterpart here in Ohio) are given a better chance of survival than millions of others are. All I (we) ask is to be given the same chance. I know I ain't much, but my wife and dog seem kinda fond of me
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CCW for Ohio action site.
http://www.ofcc.net
[This message has been edited by Hal (edited October 07, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Hal (edited October 07, 1999).]
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