Will the OPPORTUNITIES be the demise of GWB?

[BIGJACK]

Long time since any president has had opportunites such as gwb has. Won the second term with a majority (small but still a majority), has majority in both houses, will appoint 3 Supreme court justices, a war going on and economy easing back from the first few bad years. Will the jinx get him like it did others in the past? As for back as 1936 With FDR and his New Deal was stopped from stacking the Supreme Court by southern democrates aided by some republicans, 1964 Lyndon Johnson "the supreme master" and his Great Society knew it was no use because of his escalation of the war in Vietnam, Richard Nixon in 1972 with his "land Slide" Victory wound up being kept in check by a democratic controlled congress and was froced to resign due to watergate and George Senior tried to run for a second term with no agenda. Only one who has successfully beat the jinx was slick willie who left office leaving the country in the best financial shape it had for a very long time.

 

[Al Norris]

I would take exception to that last statement. The economy was starting to tank in his last year of office. This was inherited by GW. Who also got the blame... But then sitting president always get that kind of blame, even if caused by the former man in hte office.

 

[BIGJACK]

The fact remains, however, that there was a surplus in the treasury which rapidly became a deficiet and has continued the downward spiral since.

 

[Weeg]

History will show him favorably

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[BIGJACK]

Certainly you do not mean gwb???? He will go down as one of, if not the worst, president this country has ever know.

 

[Al Norris]

The fact remains, however, that there was a surplus in the treasury which rapidly became a deficiet and has continued the downward spiral since.

The so-called surplus was rapidly depleting itself before Bush was ever sworn in. It had completely depleted before Bush ever signed his first apporpriations bill. Those are the facts.

BJ, I am no Bush supporter, but I won't stand idly by and see the man be accused of something that wasn't his fault.

The restructuring of the DotComs (crash) was known to be a pending reality to all, long before it actually happened. The depletion of the surplus was the direct result of Clintons prior fiscal policies. No, it didn't help things with the policies that Bush instituted after 9/11. Just don't confuse your dislike of the man with the facts.

 

[Rivers]

"The fact remains, however, that there was a surplus in the treasury which rapidly became a deficiet and has continued the downward spiral since."


Yeah, more housing starts under GWB than ever before in history and the Dow hit 11,000 this week. Got any more "facts" to share?

 

[Cowled_Wolfe]

As a thought... Bush has had to deal with stuff like Katrina, 9/11, etc... I can only think of one other president in the last 100 years who's dealt with an attack of that scale on US soil, and none who've had to handle such a large natural disaster (albeit, my knowledge of US natural disasters isn't too good, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, (and I seperate this one because it's easily and heavily disputed as being Bush's own fault) he's had to deal with running things in Afghanistan and Iraq.

That's some tough stuff to be handling, and even without considering the Middle East (since nobody can agree on who's fault it was, if anyone's), it's probably been very hard for him...

That said, we've got a fairly strong economy, and it *looks* like Uncle Sam might be edging cautiously toward environmental friendlyness (give it another 20 years, maybe?)...

On the downside, everything we own is made in China, public education is a joke (I'd know -- I'm still in it), virtually all our 'services' (tech support, telemarketing) are from India, and our border with Mexico flows almost as much as the Rio Grande... Our border with Canada is on the map, but that's the only place you'll find it.

Wolfe... (If I'm wrong on any of that, please correct me.)

 

[Weeg]

Certainly you do not mean gwb???? He will go down as one of, if not the worst, president this country has ever know.

Yes, I do mean President Bush.


People, "in the now" also bashed Lincoln, Both Roosevelts, And Reagan too


Time will show


You hate the President, and that's fine...Americans have the right to, and can say so.


Ya gotta remember, he also inherited the mess Clinton left...And no, I don't mean the budget.

.

 

[Hal]

Only one who has successfully beat the jinx was slick willie who left office leaving the country in the best financial shape it had for a very long time.

<--- Not true.

Clinton did more to destroy the American economy than anyone in that office ever did before.

God willing and the river don't rise - some day - if the US survives that is - history will show that Clinton bungled the economic situation so badly in his 2 terms that it resulted in a complete meltdown of the Americn dollar.

Clinton actually ran up trillions in debt and left Bush holding the tab.

 

[jcims]

Only one who has successfully beat the jinx was slick willie who left office leaving the country in the best financial shape it had for a very long time.

If you call standing 12 stories high on a house of cards 'good shape', then i guess you have a point.

I personally believe Clinton either:

a) wasn't smart enough to actually see that the 'growing' economy had no foundation...that the 'growth' was PURE speculation and NO valuation and when the gig was up it was going to zero out.
b) didn't have the stones to put a leash on the 'irrational exuberance' of the late 90's economy and decided to throw the 2000 election by putting AL GORE (!!!) in front of the nation so the republicans would get the hammer when his tower of greed crumbled to the ground.

GWB's 'opportunities' in the second term are the result of the American people having faith in him to continue us through the 'opportunities' he was handed in his first.

 

[joab]

Certainly you do not mean gwb???? He will go down as one of, if not the worst, president this country has ever know.

Yeah but Lincoln, Kennedy and FDR went down as some of the best, and look what we know about them now

 

[BIGJACK]

I have a really hard time accepting the hypothesis that gwb's national financial problems are the fault of bill clinton(I am not a clinton fan). It would be logical and true to hypthesize that good times would not last forever and it would be just as logical and true to hypothesize that during bid times that better times were comming. The facts still remain that the national debt has steadily increased each year right up to the present, for what ever reason, during the gwb terms in office.

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

the dow reached 11000, WOOOPEEE!!!!! Finally back to where it was when W took office.

1992/02/01 3234.1
2000/02/01 11041.05
2002/02/01 9907.26
2004/02/02 10499.18
2006/01/11 11043.44

This recovery is sort of acdemic considering the cost of energy and energy related products have dubled in the past 5 years.

 

[jcims]

I have a really hard time accepting the hypothesis that gwb's national financial problems are the fault of bill clinton(I am not a clinton fan).

There are a number of national financial problems, I don't believe you can lump them all into one bucket and hang it off the neck of one politician. We are at war, and have war-time defense spending. We have had numerous natural disasters, some of biblical proportions, that require federal aid. And of course i'm sure you're tired of hearing the 9/11 rhetoric, but you have to admit that it has required additional spending to address. Add to that a deflated stock market and resulting loss of jobs, which i can only assume would reduce federal income on a number of levels, and you have a cash poor situation.

All i'm saying is you can't make blanket statements that GWB or WJC are at fault for the economy... They of course have a lot more control over the federal budget, but having control doesn't always mean having a choice.

Anyway, we're getting ratholed into one snip of your original question. I don't have enough political history under my belt to know how the supreme court nominations will play out, but i do believe Chief Justice Roberts will definitely be a long lasting legacy of the administration. Iraq could be by far the most significant legacy, if it can maintain a hold on a representative form of government. If not, who knows.

I personally don't see the utopian view of NOLA actually coming to fruition. It will come back in some form, but i think at least some of the displaced folks that were already broke aren't going to have any incentive to go back.

 

[pipoman]

GWB IMO will be remembered for being responsible for starting the Middle East on the road to the 21st century. In the history of the World this is huge.

I think Clinton will go down in history as holding much responsibility for escalating the Middle East's resolve against the US. I believe the fiasco in Somalia will be viewed as the biggest blunder, costing more American lives than any other action in the history of the US. If Clinton would have deployed an overwhelming force in Somalia the resolve of Saddam and the Talaban would have been severely weakened.

 

[Redworm]

GWB IMO will be remembered for being responsible for starting the Middle East on the road to the 21st century. In the history of the World this is huge.

Assuming that the situation there doesn't get worse.

As far as what history will say about him...depends on who's history you're talking about. The American version of history doesn't always jive with what the rest of the world sees.

 

[Harry Callahan]

People seem to conveniently forget that Japan and Germany STILL have a US presence, even after over 60 years since the end of WW2! They also have thriving economies which are the envy of many other countries. Back then, from what I understand, it was considered a quagmire that we were in these countries, and look at them now. Both are considered allies of this country. While I don't agree with everything GWB does I do believe he has the best interests of this country at heart and support most of his agenda.

 

[jcims]

Assuming that the situation there doesn't get worse.

I'm assuming it will get worse, especially when the Iraqi govt' and security forces are firmly behind the wheel...but those purple fingers are GWB's turd in the pool of fanatical theocracy in the Middle East. Even if Iraq consumes itself in civil war, i think he's ignited something in those people that isn't going to be snuffed out by car bombs and beheadings. They've already proven they will fight to the death against crazy odds if it's something they believe in...they just need to get off the 70 virgins koolaid and think about their legacy.

As far as what history will say about him...depends on who's history you're talking about. The American version of history doesn't always jive with what the rest of the world sees.

If i could insert "as taught in public schools" into the above, you'd get a +1 from me.

Heh, i was going to refer you to this thread, but it appears you may already be familiar with it. +1 there, too.

 

[FirstFreedom]

If i could insert "as taught in public schools" into the above, you'd get a +1 from me.

Exactly.

Most history books paint FDR as a very good president, when in fact he was by far the worst president we've ever had, bar none. He was instrumental in completely corrupting our constitutional scheme of checks and balances within the branches of the fedgov. GWB is also in the top 5 worst, and unfortunately for him, I don't think history will give him the whitewash they gave FDR - he will remembered as one of the worst - rightfully.

 

[Wildalaska]

Most history books paint FDR as a very good president, when in fact he was by far the worst president we've ever had, bar none

My god FDR bashing is still going on...I remmeber that fromw way back in the 60s when that was all the rage yapping about Franklin Rosenfeld and the "internationalists"..

How soon we forget Millard Fillmore

WildbutitsasillysubjectAlaska