IZinterrogator
New member
And what does a pathetic Photoshop job have to do with the question at hand? If you have an opinion, state it. Don't think that your clever little forgery will sway the opinions of others.
Will Bush take responsibility for the tyranny in New Orleans?
- Thread starter progunner1957
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IZinterrogator
New member
Actually, I take nothing seriously. But a 
or a 
goes a long way towards getting a joke across. Computers don't have a sense of humor, and keyboards can't convey sarcasm.
It was in rather poor taste, though...
or a goes a long way towards getting a joke across. Computers don't have a sense of humor, and keyboards can't convey sarcasm.It was in rather poor taste, though...
Uhh, didn't he say OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH that he (Bush) would take responsibility?
My belief in WHAT that means is different than blaming him (Bush) for anything.
Stepping up and "taking responsibility" means that you also shoulder the blame whether "YOU" actually did anything or not. Thus, it's not a matter of name calling, blame casting, or party politics. The guy stood up, SPOKE and said "I'm Responsible". So, if he IS responsible, as he states, then let the blame and obligations rest there. ALL of them.
Absolving him AFTER he assumes the responsiblity is sorta pointless if you base your defense on whether he actually had anything to do with the problems or not. Especially once he SAID he was the one at fault.
Saying "I'm responsible" is an exact equivalent to saying "punish me instead". Unfortunately, once you get above a certain level there is no risk of being punished for misdeeds. Either your own or those of another which you assume.
"HE is the one who will resign or leave office, HE and not any other person is responsible for what happened BECAUSE he was in charge."
One more time, I don't see how the President caused the problems - the lack of evacuations, the lack of 3 to 5 days worth of supplies at the Superdome, the failure to mobilize the National Guard, etc. - and I don't see that he is responsible for the consequences.
I suppose the reason I don't see it is that I still believe in independent states - the United States if you will. Not the frequently employed shortened name America, but the original United States of America. Call it state's rights if you must.
"So, if he IS responsible, as he states, then let the blame and obligations rest there. ALL of them."
So you still want him to resign. If it was me I'd give it up because it's a completely illogical argument.
John
One more time, I don't see how the President caused the problems - the lack of evacuations, the lack of 3 to 5 days worth of supplies at the Superdome, the failure to mobilize the National Guard, etc. - and I don't see that he is responsible for the consequences.
I suppose the reason I don't see it is that I still believe in independent states - the United States if you will. Not the frequently employed shortened name America, but the original United States of America. Call it state's rights if you must.
"So, if he IS responsible, as he states, then let the blame and obligations rest there. ALL of them."
So you still want him to resign. If it was me I'd give it up because it's a completely illogical argument.
John
*sigh*
Saying "I'm responsible" is the EXACT equivalent of saying "punish me". Please don't say that I misunderstood Bush saying "I'm responsible". I think it's pretty clear that someone who says that they are responsible should be held accountable. What's so "illogical" about that?
The problem as I see it, isn't on my end. As I see it, there are many who defend Bush merely because they and he share the same political party. So, take politics out of the equation - What if, Bush were a private citizen in a management position (say, for instance, CEO of Ford) and one of the suppliers screwed up and caused mega-millions in lost revenues, lost market share, lost brand recognition, and lost brand loyalty. What if, Bush then said the same thing (I'm responsible)? Would you also say that he shouldn't be punished?
Check out Jacques Nassers (sp?) termination from Ford because of the Ford Explorer/Bridgestone tire fiasco. Mr. Nasser didn't say he was responsible, but he was ultimately held accountable for the failures that occured "during his watch".
You can compare the 2 situations and contrast them all you like. In the end, the final result will be that Bush will say he takes the responsibility but will not shoulder any of the consequences. I wonder why?
It takes no effort to say "I'm responsible" and do nothing knowing that you will pay no penalty. It doens't make you a "man". It doesn't show you have "integrity". It doesn't even mean you "fessed up". It's just words that have no meaning unless there is a consequence for saying them.
Saying "I'm responsible" is the EXACT equivalent of saying "punish me". Please don't say that I misunderstood Bush saying "I'm responsible". I think it's pretty clear that someone who says that they are responsible should be held accountable. What's so "illogical" about that?
The problem as I see it, isn't on my end. As I see it, there are many who defend Bush merely because they and he share the same political party. So, take politics out of the equation - What if, Bush were a private citizen in a management position (say, for instance, CEO of Ford) and one of the suppliers screwed up and caused mega-millions in lost revenues, lost market share, lost brand recognition, and lost brand loyalty. What if, Bush then said the same thing (I'm responsible)? Would you also say that he shouldn't be punished?
Check out Jacques Nassers (sp?) termination from Ford because of the Ford Explorer/Bridgestone tire fiasco. Mr. Nasser didn't say he was responsible, but he was ultimately held accountable for the failures that occured "during his watch".
You can compare the 2 situations and contrast them all you like. In the end, the final result will be that Bush will say he takes the responsibility but will not shoulder any of the consequences. I wonder why?
It takes no effort to say "I'm responsible" and do nothing knowing that you will pay no penalty. It doens't make you a "man". It doesn't show you have "integrity". It doesn't even mean you "fessed up". It's just words that have no meaning unless there is a consequence for saying them.
Actually, George (President George W. Bush) won't be in NO to go from house to house protecting the right to bear arms to Americans. But the National Rifle Association is on the scene and banging on the ears of the liberals that came up with the idea of confistcation!
Actually, the problem down there is not President Bush's fault but the President that bought that swamp from the frenchies in the first place!
Cajuns are not blamed for anything, fine folk, fine music and find cuisine, God Bless 'em!
Actually, the problem down there is not President Bush's fault but the President that bought that swamp from the frenchies in the first place!
Cajuns are not blamed for anything, fine folk, fine music and find cuisine, God Bless 'em!
*sigh* *sigh* (I can do condescension too.)
I don't see the logic in your interpretation at all. I don't see the relevance of your examples. I really like the one where the guy didn't say he was responsible and got fired anyway. I've never been a Republican Party member. I was a Libertarian 25-30 years ago.
How is the President responsible for the Mayor's actions or inactions? How is the President responsible for the Governor's action or inaction? Is he responsible for the weather?
You've got a real thing eatin' away at you where the President is concerned.
Are you a Democrat who joined 12 days ago just to badger folks? Let's see some pictures of your guns.
John
I don't see the logic in your interpretation at all. I don't see the relevance of your examples. I really like the one where the guy didn't say he was responsible and got fired anyway. I've never been a Republican Party member. I was a Libertarian 25-30 years ago.
How is the President responsible for the Mayor's actions or inactions? How is the President responsible for the Governor's action or inaction? Is he responsible for the weather?
You've got a real thing eatin' away at you where the President is concerned.
Are you a Democrat who joined 12 days ago just to badger folks? Let's see some pictures of your guns.
John
IZinterrogator
New member
That ain't gonna happen.
Possibly a "war" President should not spend so much time vacationing and ignoring what IS ON TV. What happened was seen, recorded and undeniable. Bush and his cronies are a sham. I do not see how anyone can defend him. I guess some people are blinded by politics. BTW, am a DAV from the Vietnam War. I own guns and NO ONE is taking mine.
Vacation? You figure the man has a phone, cable tv and an Internet connection out there in the sticks? You ever hear of telecommuting? I bet he even has a phone on that plane he flies around in? Maybe in his car, too.
When I go on vacation I don't call home and try to arrange it so nobody can find me. The President of the U.S. doesn't have it so good - he's working 24/7 and if he isn't actually shuffling papers he has a staff to do it for him.
John
When I go on vacation I don't call home and try to arrange it so nobody can find me. The President of the U.S. doesn't have it so good - he's working 24/7 and if he isn't actually shuffling papers he has a staff to do it for him.
John
Ok, lets get to the heart of your defense of the prez...
He SAID he was responsible. That makes him responsible. Not the mayor. Not the gov'na. HIM. Because he said he was.
Got it?
BTW, I don't "brag" about any weapons I may, or may not, own. I'm not a mall ninja. I"m not a "wannabe commando" either. I don't go "blasting" when I choose to go practice, and I certainly won't post my address and list my weapons arsenal on a public forum. Attacking me because I'm new here and exercise discretion in my public personna is WRONG. It's called changing the subject from a discussion on the issues to a personal attack.
You are probably a very nice guy whom I disagree with on this subject. Sorry about that.
He SAID he was responsible. That makes him responsible. Not the mayor. Not the gov'na. HIM. Because he said he was.
Got it?
BTW, I don't "brag" about any weapons I may, or may not, own. I'm not a mall ninja. I"m not a "wannabe commando" either. I don't go "blasting" when I choose to go practice, and I certainly won't post my address and list my weapons arsenal on a public forum. Attacking me because I'm new here and exercise discretion in my public personna is WRONG. It's called changing the subject from a discussion on the issues to a personal attack.
You are probably a very nice guy whom I disagree with on this subject. Sorry about that.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Rob-
He took responsibility for any failing by FEMA, not for the ineptness of Blanco or Nagin. Have you called them out yet?
Have you seen Nagin in the past two days? Picture of leadership:
"I'm inviting everyone back into the city. The Federal Government doesn't run New Orleans."
"OK, wait a minute, there's another storm out there. I'm asking everyone to turn around who's headed here."
"Oh my God. It really IS another blow; Run for your lives. I'm ordering everyone OUT of New Orleans RIGHT NOW. Call FEMA; tell 'em it's their problem again. I'll be in Dallas if you need me."
I wouldn't trust this guy to manage a Little League team.
Rich
He took responsibility for any failing by FEMA, not for the ineptness of Blanco or Nagin. Have you called them out yet?
Have you seen Nagin in the past two days? Picture of leadership:
"I'm inviting everyone back into the city. The Federal Government doesn't run New Orleans."
"OK, wait a minute, there's another storm out there. I'm asking everyone to turn around who's headed here."
"Oh my God. It really IS another blow; Run for your lives. I'm ordering everyone OUT of New Orleans RIGHT NOW. Call FEMA; tell 'em it's their problem again. I'll be in Dallas if you need me."
I wouldn't trust this guy to manage a Little League team.
Rich
I haven't because I'm not a citizen of La and have no voice in the matter of their elected officials. My personal opinion is that most of those involved in the NOLA mess are total incompetents. From Nagin all the way up the political tree.
I admit, I DO NOT LIKE GW BUSH! I think he's an illiterate moron and not worth the spit it would take to, well, spit on him. This is not because he's a Republican and I'm not - because I am also a registered and voting Republican. His policies are what I object to. He has turned back the clock on the progress of human and civil rights to what it was in the 1950's. His mental acuity (or actually the lack of it) suggests that his thoughts for a modern America include: segregation by wealth, race, or ethnicity; division of the populace based on religion; military might trumps EVERYTHING including the Constitution and justice systems; a police state is desireable; women have no rights; censorship is a good thing; a divided citizenry is a powerless citizenry; etc. He even recreated a Vietnam type conflict so that it apparently would be a correct reinactment.
Geezus, he even dresses like it was the 50's and his appointees certainly look and act the part (anyone REALLY look at Tom Ridge in that light? Dick Tracy for sure even without the hat.) He OK'd Ashcroft to cover up the 2 statues of Lady Justice in the Justice dept because they are sculpted partially "nude" and "it's indecent". The list could go on BUT the important point is that he is molding America based on an outdated personal viewpoint and not from a legal and constitutional one that is BAD for America. Hasn't anyone here wondered WHY the various justice depts have expanded their police powers under his administration to the point that they are now regulating AND prosecuting the porn industry? At the same time? In the same cities? Wire taps without warrants against U.S citizens? Remember when the Patriot Act was "never going to be used against Americans"?
If Bush were to get his way there wouldn't even be any need to even discuss "family values" because you won't have the discretion to choose what values you wish your family to have. He and his cronies apparently know more about you and your families needs than you do and he will take away your power to decide and replace it with his own pronouncements.
GW Bush believes he is America's first Czar and is willing to use our own military against us to keep it that way. And some people think that's all right instead of all wrong.
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Kinda conflicts with
So which is he? A bumbling idjit or a brilliant and nefarious social engineer? He seems to morph between these two extremes depending on what people wish to rail against this particular moment.
By the way, I'm not a Republican either. Never have been.
Rich
Denny Hansen
Staff Emeritus
While I’m not GW’s biggest fan, in my humble opinion he should have never used the word “responsible.” Accountable? Ultimately, yes, but not responsible. I gained a lot of respect for him for “admitting” that. Where I’m from that is known as stepping up to the plate.
All I have seen from his opponents is finger pointing and jockeying for position for the 2008 elections.
Denny
All I have seen from his opponents is finger pointing and jockeying for position for the 2008 elections.
Denny
George Bush is the President and HE is responsible. He has taken more vacation time than any of his predecessors. If he is always in communication then he knew what was happening and could have make some calls, issue orders, or something to help the FEMA mess , not ignore it. Here is an analogy you may understand.
Let's say your neighbors house is on fire and you sit there and watch it burn down because the neighbor could not put out the fire himself. He comes over to you and asks why didn't you help? You reply, "You did not ask." This seems to be the most used excuse for supplies being stranded on C130s in San Diego, the Coast Guard was totally prepared but go no orders to move, Homeland Security has 6 or 9 stockpiles of supplies for emergencies, never touched.
However, GW was more interested in campaigning in Arizona and Idaho, even though he knew what was going on in New Orleans. He either knew what was going on and let it happen or he did not know and should have. Either way he is at fault. These FEMA guys are HIS appointments and the Guy that replaced Brown is the guy that came up with "duck tape and plastic' for a chemical or nuclear attack.....right.
Let's say your neighbors house is on fire and you sit there and watch it burn down because the neighbor could not put out the fire himself. He comes over to you and asks why didn't you help? You reply, "You did not ask." This seems to be the most used excuse for supplies being stranded on C130s in San Diego, the Coast Guard was totally prepared but go no orders to move, Homeland Security has 6 or 9 stockpiles of supplies for emergencies, never touched.
However, GW was more interested in campaigning in Arizona and Idaho, even though he knew what was going on in New Orleans. He either knew what was going on and let it happen or he did not know and should have. Either way he is at fault. These FEMA guys are HIS appointments and the Guy that replaced Brown is the guy that came up with "duck tape and plastic' for a chemical or nuclear attack.....right.