Will a .300 Win Mag Really Kill Better Than a .30-06?

One post mentioned 243 for elk and a question about black bear. I no someone that thought the 243 was big enough for elk till an already angry black bear got after him. He now has a 280 r. After hitting him 4 times without significant penetration a single shot at close range and closing fast was all that stopped him in the eye socket. Know of some elk kills with 243 but also have heard several wounded an never found. I guess if you respect your limitations it will work but that does mean turning down shots.
 
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Brian Pfleuger said:
I do like exit wounds and would choose a bullet that would exit big game, no matter the caliber/cartridge I was using. I like Barnes TTSX.

The difference between a .300Mag and a .30-06, at 300 yards or less, given identical bullet placement and identical bullets, will be how much energy the tree on the other side absorbs.
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Agreed, killed some deer this year with the TSX and have been thoroughly impressed. The shots were perfect but still DRT.

At 300yds i wouldn't hesitate to use a .243, .260/6.5CM, or .308. Two years ago shot a 200+ lb buck right around 300yds with a berger 175gr BT LR moving 2618fps out of my .308 he didn't move.

500 under most cartridges have similar ballistics as far as drop is concerned sure one will deliver more energy than another but it isn't really until extended distance that the advantage really strikes.

One post mentioned 243 for elk and a question about black bear. I no someone that thought the 243 was big enough for elk till an already angry black bear got after him. He now has a 280 r. After hitting him 4 times without significant penetration a single shot at close range and closing fast was all that stopped him in the eye socket.
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243 is good enough for elk. 688yds and DRT. As mentioned before shot placement is key. Not sure i would use it for a bear but i would take an accurate .243 and 105gr VLDs or 115gr DTACs elk hunting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
 
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I like the tssx in my 25 06 gets good penetration while expanding well at all range/ speeds and releasing almost its entire energy on the animal . It would take elk with the ideal shot at long ranges but isn't my first choice due to the fact that all situations are not ideal. Also the guy who shot the bear with the 243 pulled all bullets out of the fat with his index finger. The shot to the eye very lucky.
 
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Give some thought to the variations among rifles and hunting loads. Also the differences between advertised performance and the real world. Years ago, preparing for my first elk hunt, I took my rifles to a local gun club on their public sight-in day to check my zero. I had great fun taking advantage of a member's chronograph. My .30-06, apparently on the tight side and firing the Federal P3006R ammo, a 180 grain Nosler Partition advertised at 2880fps, clocked an average 2901fps for three rounds. The previous shooter, with a .300WinMag and a 180 grain Silvertip load had his average a few fps slower. He was not pleased, but I certainly was.

Judging from the nearly identical performance on the range, I think the Hornady Light Magnum 180s are just as fast in my rifle.
 
The 300 MAG has more reach but that's the extent of its usefulness for majority of hunting situations. The advent of Premium bullets has enlarged wound channels and provided deeper penetration for common cartridges such as 300 Savage, .308, and 30-06 to the point where magnum performance is difficult to describe. 300 MAG is a hard kicking cartridge that is intimidating to most hunters.

A much more useful cartridge is the 280 Improved which almost matches the velocities of 7mm MAG. This cartridge also has more reach than the 30-06 but with virtually identical recoil.

Jack
 
I wouldn't shoot any of them anymore without a brake on the. My 300WM has no recoil, but is loud as heck..

IMG_3176.jpg
 
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CDJ, hold that rifle at arms length with both hands so it's at 90 degrees to your arms. Shoot it and watch it recoil before and after the bullet leaves.
 
What I am about to say may be less valid today due to improvements in premium bullets

Several years ago,maybe even 20 yrs ago,The American Rifleman ran an article on just this topic.

They tested a bunch of bullets with a variety of media in .308,30-06,and .300 Magnum.

The conclusion:A .30 cal game bullet is a .30 cal game bullet,regardless of cartridge.

A .308 will kill exactly the same class of game animal as a 300 magnum.

The .300 magnum advantage is longer effective range.

Manufacturers of bullets have some challenges to overcome.The bullet has to expand and perform at longer range,yet hold together and not fail at close range/high velocity.

At close range,such as a bear encounter,the article's conclusion was a .308 gave more penetration and more reliable bullet performance than the .300 mag.

The good bullet performance range for most bullets,something 2000 fps plus will make the bullet work,and,as you get above 2700-2800 things get more iffy.

If you start a 180 gr 30-06 at 2700 fps,someplace around 400 yds the velocity will be around 2000 + fps

And at around 2300 fps,at 100 yds a 30-40 Krag will kill anything a 300 Mag will kill.

As I said,with modern premium bullets,this may be slightly off,but it is generally true.
 
Bart trust me, I cannot shoot a .308 anymore. This .300 win mag does not recoil. After back and shoulder surgery I had this custom built for me for that reason. The brake is effective enough to almost pull the rifle away. My gunsmiths 11 year old daughter shoots this regularly, and that is with a 220gr. SMK with 76.3 grains of H1000 behind it. It is the Mk248 Mod 1 mentioned earlier(really hot load).

Now if you believe me or not, I could care less, I know my rifle. I know the loads it shoots. No offense but any of my 5.56 AR's recoil more. It is a 14lb setup and has reach out to 1760 with my gunsmith shooting an old car hood.
 
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My own experience is this: I have carried a 300 Win Mag alot of years and killed many big game critters. Before that, I carried a 30-06 and killed many big game critters. I did not see a bit of difference and my furthest shot was on a black bear at 300 yards. Now I am carrying a 308. It shoots like butter and carries nice. I dont see any difference at 300 yards and in with all of them. I have not had to shoot past that so its hard to say if it makes a difference out at 500 yards with actual smack down impact. Put the bullet in the proper place and it shouldn't matter.
 
All I know is that any "Magnum" cartridge will make up for a marginal shot... Whereas the 30-06 in this example would not.



:D :D
 
Kimber84, I use to think that but I had made a stupid shot on a big buck at only 30 yards as he was running. I hit him dead center paunch with my 300 Win Mag when I first started carrying it. I bought into the idea that a big Magnum will drop them with a crappy shot. Boy was I suprised when we tracked that deer 1/2 mile over the toughest terain for a hour. I still had to put a finishing shot to kill him. Luckily we had 10" of fresh snow. He bled ALOT and as the minutes of tracking him ticked down, my idea of the killing power of the big magnum on a gut shot went out the door. I have seen guys hit deer in the guts with a 308 SST and drop em cold so its not a shot I would take with any caliber. Your results my vary.
 
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Yes, it will. All other things being equal, energy kills. The extreme of the same question would be "does the .30-378 WBY. kill better than a .300 Blackout?".
 
I would think, as long as the bullet holds together, hitting at a faster velocity will cause more significant hydrostatic shock and likely more internal devastation. In the case where a bullet may not hold together, the .300 win mag could be loaded down, or be used with a heavier bullet, which should, at the very least, offer more penetration due to the higher SD bullet. 'Kill better?' I'm not sure about that, if it dies quick and humanely there's no 'better' than that. And .308 should be able to kill most anything with the right load and good bullet placement. There's always the chance that you muck up your shot, and the .300 Win Mag MAY be able to help you there, IF you get lucky. But it's no excuse to take 'bad' or 'lazy' shots. The power of the .300 win mag will obviously not save you 100% of the time with your bad shots, and then there's the fact that .300 win mag recoils more, and is typically harder to shoot, which could increase your chances of making a bad shot, potentially. To imply that the .300 win mag doesn't do more damage than a .308 is plain silly. The difference is, do you really 'need' it, and is it worth the extra recoil? Most hunter don't want to ruin their meat. So 'extra' damage is usually not needed and also not preferred. The fact that the .300 win mag will usually do more 'meat damage' and ruin more meat, is an example of how the .300WM is more powerful, but doesn't necessarily 'kill better.'
 
Someone once asked what the difference was between four identical 30 caliber hunting bullets entering game at the same entry axis and impace velocity, but each one fired from different cartridges ranging from a.300 Savage to a .300 Weatherby Magnum.

Best answer I saw was the one that said they each produce identical effect on that animal. They're all equal.
 
Best answer I saw was the one that said they each produce identical effect on that animal. They're all equal.
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As they should be. If they all have the same impact velocity as you stated in your post, hitting at the same axis, then yes, they should all perform the same, because the bullet isn't conscious of knowing which cartridge it was fired from. The difference is, if you loaded all those cartridges to their maximum potential, with the same bullets, and fired them at game all at the same range, they wouldn't be hitting with the same impact velocity. :)
 
A .30-378 WBY would have about the same velocity at 1100 yards as the .300 blackout would have at the muzzle. I guess if you shot an elk at point blank range with the blackout and 1100 yards with the WBY; you would get the same results.
 
Read into the Mk248 Mod1 300WM cartridge. It falls short of the .338LM, but close enough that our government wouldn't switch the system out at a higher price, they just converted the .308 over to the 300WM. The Mk248 Mod1 is one heck of a round. I had just under a case, they would amaze you at the accuracy and velocity at 800+ yards.
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There is a difference in shooting people at 1000 yards and game. At 1000 yards the AK will not even come close to you if you miss and they shoot back or as long as you wound the individual you have done your job, time does the rest.

Most of us not only do not take, but are not capable of 1000 yard shots.

I have no qualm at all with the military selecting that cartridge that they believe suits their needs best (probably a rare case that it in fact is true because there is no big procurement bucks in the decision it was a correct one).

However, basing a hunting decision based on an anti personal round choice that is of no relevance to the game shooting decision (IMNSHO)
 
Bart your point is well made & is dead on. When Mass x weight x speed x equal physical properties are equal so is energy. But HiBC did a good job making the point I tried to earlier. His reference to the American Rifleman is something I have seen many times. Each of the guns discussed have different ballistics. Therefore at each varying range speed and drop are different. Granted the original post was up to 300 yards and really I Don t think there is enough appreciable difference in these guns to make a noticeable difference. But after 300 I believe due to the magnum chamber pressures you can generate if you want to you will surpass the other 30 calibers with the 300 mag. I believe that over the 0-600 yard range on large game with a good bullet has an edge. I also believe that the same 300 mag can get worse performance with a light core lock that is screaming at closer ranges.
 
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JD0x0 said:
As they should be. If they all have the same impact velocity as you stated in your post, hitting at the same axis, then yes, they should all perform the same, because the bullet isn't conscious of knowing which cartridge it was fired from. The difference is, if you loaded all those cartridges to their maximum potential, with the same bullets, and fired them at game all at the same range, they wouldn't be hitting with the same impact velocity.
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Even so, under any ordinary circumstance, the effect would still be identical. With the caveat that the impact velocity is within the range that the bullet requires to perform it's job. If it's not, that's a separate question/problem. If it is, the difference will be how much energy the tree on the other side absorbs.
 
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