Wild Bunch 1911

[HighValleyRanch]

I don't shoot CAS but I do own a mule and got the hots to build a "Wild Bunch" period 1911.

I started with a Federal Ordinance frame from the 1980's stored away and never built. I know, cheap frame.
Had some parts like a Colt barrel, grip safety, thumb safety, pachmayr flat MSH and trigger. But that was all.

Bought this new slide off fleabay that cme with mil sights, all insides and extra bonus recoil spring, guide and parts for 100.00. I must be lucky because the barrel, frame, slide and link all fit right up! I like the "Model of 1911" etching.

Then I had to order all the remaining parts off fleabay auctions. Spent less than 150.00 on all the remaining parts.
It took some fitting as the frame was rough.
I did luck out in that the frame, slide and all the parts I already had were series 70.

Had to make my own tool to flare the plunger tube into place. Ground a steel dowel for the point, and welded it to a C clamp and ground the C clamp to fit into the frame, and got it staked.

It's been a real learning process about the 1911 which was the goal of my project. Very exciting this morning to take the first ten shots and find that all my work paid off with a nice smooth working pistol! Very limited testing because of the primer shortage, but the group test of three shots yield a 2 inch group from 7 yards with the tiny GI sights off hand right to POA.

What would you recommend to make this more 1918 period correct? Shorten the grip tang and change the safety to the old style? Mayber a flat MSH with lanyard loop.

I made the grips and carved them and shot my reloads and will make a nice floral holster for it for field carry.

 

[TunnelRat]

Really neat idea, thanks for sharing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Aguila Blanca]

The grip safety is correct for an M1911A1 frame. The shorter grip safety tang was on the M1911, which didn't have the scallop cuts behind the trigger.

Your hammer is a late style hammer. More correct would be a wide spur hammer, and those are fairly readily available. And you should probably look for a GI-style thumb safety with the small pad.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

double post

 

[HighValleyRanch]

The shorter grip safety tang was on the M1911, which didn't have the scallop cuts behind the trigger.

I was thinking I could just gring that tang shorter to the frame?
Is this wide spur hammer more correct?

 

[RickB]

Yes, you can just recontour the grip safety.
The original M1911 had a short, wide hammer, which was then replaced by an elegant, long/wide hammer that created the hammer bite that we all know and love.
Google "short sharp hammer", and you should find some pics of the 1912-1913 hammer.

 

[tex45acp]

Very nice. I like the grips as well!!

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks, if you stare hard enough, you can see the initials, HVR in there.

 

[44 AMP]

What would you recommend to make this more 1918 period correct?

Hammer, trigger, grip safety, thumb safety and FRAME are all incorrect for a 1918 gun. Probably the sights as well, but can't tell for sure.

Also, the gun probably should be blued, and none of them ever said Model of 1911 on the slides like that one does.

And, of course the grips...

Congratulations on putting it together and having it run, you've built a nice 1911A1 pattern gun.

The one thing you can't get around is the frame. If it has the relief scallops behind the trigger, it's an A1 frame, not a 1911 frame.

Just FYI, the Army used a jig plate to hold the frame and tube, and special offset punch to stake the plunger tube, and another for the front sight. I was a guy who did that in the 70s.

Also, its entirely possible to find an actual 1911 with A1 parts on it. Army SOP after the introduction of the A1 was to maintain the 1911 with A1 parts as needed.

Nice job, just not a faithful accurate 1918 reproduction, I give you an "A" for effort, especially on a tiny budget. Friend of mine got one of Turnbull's accurate 1918 reproductions some years back, and if I recall it was an $1800+ gun then, a decade or so ago...

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks for the concise review. It doesn't have to be totally period correct, just look like it from three shooting station over!
Like a 15 foot paint job.
Pretty sure I'm going to remove that finish on the slide, at least the flats and reblue it.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I was thinking I could just gring that tang shorter to the frame?

The M1911 grip safety tang wasn't flush with the frame, but it was shorter than the A1 grip safety. The M1911 grip safety also wasn't the same as the early (original) Commander grip safety. Sure, you can grind an A1 grip safety to the correct profile, or close -- if you have an original to match. Good luck finding one.

Is this wide spur hammer more correct?

Yes. Close enough to look right from two bays over, for sure.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Since the OP mentioned Wild Bunch, let's consider what the Wild Bunch rules actually say:

https://sassnet.com/wildbunch/handb...ction Shooting Handbook Vers 14_5 070120.pdf

Jump to page 4

1911 PISTOL REQUIREMENTS
A full-size single stack steel frame 1911 style semi-auto pistol in .45 ACP caliber
is required. Throughout this document the term “1911 pistol” is used but includes
the 1911A1 model as well as its clones. No more than one main match pistol may be
carried to the firing line.

TRADITIONAL CATEGORY MODIFICATIONS
The frame and slide must conform to the “military style” 1911 or 1911A1
configuration (e.g., no light rails, enlarged dust covers, and so forth).

The finish on traditional pistols varies from polished blue to very matted
Parkerizing. All these finishes are legal. Also allowed are any dull color such as OD
green, flat dark earth, desert tan etc. No bright color such as red, yellow, orange or
white is allowed. Pistols may also be plated, color case finished or painted.
When checkering, matting, or stippling is mentioned, it means actually cutting a pattern in the frame or slide.
• Barrel length must be five inches. No barrel porting or compensators or other recoil
reducing devices allowed.
• Unloaded pistol weight may not exceed 40 ounces with an empty magazine inserted.
• Barrel with standard barrel bushing. No Bull barrels allowed.
• Magazine wells may be beveled, but may not be oversized, extended, or flared.
• Only non-adjustable “military style” simple blade rear and front sights allowed. The
10-8 National Match and the Harrison Design 003 are approved rear sights.
• Front sights may be dovetailed, pinned, or staked.
• Sights may be the color of the slide or any combination of the slide color,
including, but not limited to, blue, black, or natural stainless (natural colored) steel.
The back of a colored front sight may be polished to natural steel color.
• Stainless steel pistols are permitted.
• Wrap around grips that cover a portion of the front strap are illegal. No target style
or thumb rests allowed.
• A groove can be cut in the grip to facilitate the shooter reaching the magazine release, but no material may extend beyond the original profile of the grip.
• Only rear slide checkering or serrations. No front slide checkering or serrations.
• Magazines must be standard length and may be loaded with up to seven rounds.
Overloaded rounds that are fired are scored as “illegally acquired” ammunition.
• A base pad may be added to the magazine if it meets the following requirements: It
must be made from natural leather material only. It must be no larger than the
contour of the base of the magazine. The total thickness of the pad may not extend
more than 1/4" beyond the original base plate.
• Empty magazines may not weigh more than three ounces.
• Only standard grip safeties. No beavertail style grip safeties.
• Standard length magazine release. May not be extended or oversized.
• Standard thumb safeties only. May not be extended.
• Standard slide release. May not be extended.
• Standard recoil spring guide. No full-length guide rods allowed.
• Short or long solid trigger permitted. No flat or lightweight match triggers allowed.
• Flat or arched mainspring housings permitted. Mainspring housing may be
serrated or checkered.
• Lowered and flared ejection port is allowed.
• Checkered front strap or trigger guard not allowed.
• Standard spur type hammer only.
• Lanyard loop is optional.
• Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed.
• Thumb and grip safeties must function correctly.
• Note: “Standard” in all cases means Standard Military Specs.

MODERN CATEGORY MODIFICATIONS
Pistol finishes vary widely. Bluing, plating, polishing, painting, etc. are all legal.
• Barrel length must be five inches. No barrel porting or compensators or other recoil
reducing devices allowed. No recoil reducing devices are allowed. This means no
Springcoil, STI, Fire Dragon, Hartts, tungsten, or similar recoil reducing guide rods,
full length dust covers, extra weights, and the like. Dust cover light rails are legal.
• Unloaded pistol weight may not exceed 42 ounces with an empty magazine inserted.
• Barrel with standard barrel bushing. No Bull barrels allowed.
• Magazine wells may be beveled, but may not be oversized, extended or flared.
• Adjustable or non-adjustable rear sights and blade type front sights are allowed.
• Sights may not be optical or fiber optic. Laser sights are not allowed. Sights may
be painted or have colored dots or inserts.
• Stainless steel pistols are permitted.
• No target style grips or thumb rests allowed. Wrap around grips that cover a
portion of the front strap are illegal.
• A groove may be cut in the grip to facilitate the shooter reaching the magazine release, but no material may extend beyond the original profile of the grip.
• Front and rear slide checkering or serrations allowed.
• No external “rib” allowed on top of slide. This means no external rib such as a
BoMar may be attached to the top of the slide by screws, welding, or any other
means. The top of the slide may be flattened, serrated, and/or matted to reduce
glare. Original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal.
• Extended beavertail grip safeties allowed.
• Magazines must be standard length and may be loaded with up to seven rounds.
Overloaded rounds that are fired are scored as “illegally acquired” ammunition.
• A base pad may be added to the magazine if it meets the following requirements: It
must be made from natural leather material only. It must be no larger than the
contour of the base of the magazine. The total thickness of the pad may not extend
more than 1/4" beyond the original base plate.
• Empty magazines may not weigh more than three ounces.
• Magazine release may be extended but not oversized.
• Thumb safeties may be extended and be ambidextrous.
• Slide release may be extended.
• Full-length recoil spring guide rod allowed.
• Lowered and flared ejection port allowed.
• Match trigger allowed.
• Lanyard loop is optional.
• Lightweight competition hammer allowed.
• Checkered front strap and trigger guard allowed. This means any type of
checkering, stippling, and/or serrations are legal.
• Finger grooves on the front strap are illegal.
• Flat or arched mainspring housing allowed. Mainspring housing may be serrated
or checkered.
• Internal accurizing and action tuning is allowed.
• Thumb and grip safeties must function correctly.
• External extractor allowed.

It appears to me, from a quick scan through the rules, that this pistol can fall within the Traditional category. The class allows both M1911 and M1911A1 styles, so the scallop relief cuts behind the trigger aren't an issue.

 

[redlightrich]

Hello HVR, thanks for posting that up. I appreciate the effort some people extend to create their own gun.
To my eyes, the gun looks cool as it is. If it were mine, I would leave the finish as is as well. No need to make it look like brand new and shiny!
If it is a shooter, you did it well. And reading the rules posted, it seems as if it would be acceptable as is.

Good on you

Thanks

Rich

 

[highpower3006]

Dunno if this is absolutely correct for a "Wild Bunch" 1911, but here are a couple of pics of my early 1917 production Colt 1911:

 

[Aguila Blanca]

How could a 1917 Colt M1911 NOT be correct for Wild Bunch?

That's a nice example of one, BTW.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Thanks, that is a beauty. The pics will definitely help give me something to go by!

 

[RickB]

Circa 1918 hammer on the left, original M1911 hammer on the right.
Modern Government Model modified with reduced grip safety, and wide hammer shortened to eliminate hammer bite.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

Found this good comparison of 1911 and AI parts on C&S website:
https://www.cylinder-slide.com/reproduction6.shtml

Ground my tang down this morning.

I got my safety nicely working. It was really stiff, so I had to recontour the edge so it works more smoothly.
Think that I am going to try and reshape the existing safety to more resemble the original 1911 one. It will have a slightly larger pad, but the flat back portion. Going to use a grinder and files to reshape. Won't be perfect, but I got time and I'm cheap.
I'm the customer and easy to please!
Save the money for a new wide short spur hammer.

By the way, the ejector pin hole on that frame is way smaller than 1/16 inch. I did have a smaller size pin, but it would not fit into the hole, and I didn't have a drill bit that size. So to get the ejector pinned in, I took a slightly oversized hex wrench and cut the L off, put the shaft into my drill press and used a file to round to size until it was a smooth fit into the hole and loctite it all into place. If I ever have to remove it, I will be able to heat it and press it out.

 

[HighValleyRanch]

A few minutes grinding on the thumb safety with my 4" grinder!

After 1/2 hour of file work and sanding

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Nice job on the thumb safety!