Wife calls and says man at door wont leave.

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JohnKSa said:
High-pressure sales persons are taught that people are reticent to be rude and are also taught use people's politeness against them.

Learning to deal effectively with people who won't take no for an answer is good practice for dealing with confrontational criminals who often use similar tactics to close with a victim.
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I've dealth with contracted sales and service personnel, and hardly ever with someone with serious criminal intent, but what they have in common is a desire to take something that isn't theirs.

What a salesman wants that isn't his is the courtesy we extend in social settings. His context isn't social. In dealing with this problem, it can be difficult to teach some people (my wife especially included) that social courtesy isn't appropriate for cold call salesmen.

I don't take any pleasure in being rude to a salesman or anyone else. However once they have been directed to cease communication, they should only be issued instructions, not engaged in further conversation.
 
She had a gun available, but wouldn't carry it nor retrieve it, if I understood the OP correctly.
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Yes, that is correct. And for the record, we have 3 dogs. 2 of them are dachshunds and 1 is a terrier mix. Dachshunds, while small, are a force to be reckoned with. But I personally don't feel any dog should be used for protection. My dogs are like my children and I would fight to keep them safe.

My wife is a decent judge of character but a little naive when it comes to dealing with people at the door. I plan on having more discussions about this in the future and creating a plan in case something happens again.

I did tell her that next time I ask her to get the gun, she needs to get it.
 
If a stranger is rude enough to interrupt me at home, in public, or even on the phone, I feel justified in returning the rudeness with a "buzz off" attitude. Don't forget that they WANT something from you, it is their agenda, not yours, and nothing requires you to help them achieve their goal.

When I was told "don't talk to strangers" some 60 years ago, it really stuck, and to this day I just don't.
 
Another reason, if you want guns - to carry one. Door gets kicked in and you have to get to the gun. Might not make it. Most folks can carry a little one if need be.
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Alas, this is why I always have my gun on me until I go to bed at night. When I shower, it's on the toilet seat. When I'm on the toilet...you can use your imagination. It's nothing sick, relax.

My gun is always on me. Nothing feels more useless than needing your gun and not being able to access it. I know that feeling. -___-

You did fine OP. Talk to the wifey a lot more on what to do. Do an outline of this thread.

Link her to "cornered cat" written by PAX a member and admin on this forum. It's from a woman's perspective.
 
Alas, this is why I always have my gun on me until I go to bed at night. When I shower, it's on the toilet seat.
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What a miserable way to have to live. I hope someone is paying you big bucks to keep you where ever you are! How long before you can leave?
 
Like Constantine, I carry every day, from the time I get dressed until the time I go to bed at night. It's a habit, in the same way that putting on your shirt is a habit. Sure, you could walk around without it all the time, but it's just as easy to put it on and forget about it. Carrying the gun is my default setting, that's all.

Want to know what I think would be a miserable way to live? For me -- and of course this will be different for others because people are all different -- it would be emotionally unhealthy to carry the gun "sometimes." That would mean that when I got dressed in the morning, instead of just putting the gun on my belt before I put my shoes on, I would instead be thinking something like, How dangerous will my life be today? Will I be going anywhere that I might have to shoot someone? What's the crime rate like in that neighborhood? Was there a recent murder, a rape, a violent assault? Will I have to kill someone today?

Instead of dwelling on nasty stuff like that, I just get dressed.

pax
 
Like Constantine, I carry every day, from the time I get dressed until the time I go to bed at night. It's a habit, in the same way that putting on your shirt is a habit. Sure, you could walk around without it all the time, but it's just as easy to put it on and forget about it. Carrying the gun is my default setting, that's all.

Want to know what I think would be a miserable way to live? For me -- and of course this will be different for others because people are all different -- it would be emotionally unhealthy to carry the gun "sometimes." That would mean that when I got dressed in the morning, instead of just putting the gun on my belt before I put my shoes on, I would instead be thinking something like, How dangerous will my life be today? Will I be going anywhere that I might have to shoot someone? What's the crime rate like in that neighborhood? Was there a recent murder, a rape, a violent assault? Will I have to kill someone today?

Instead of dwelling on nasty stuff like that, I just get dressed.

pax
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I've never seen such a perfect response to justify why I am the way that I am as well. Excellent.

See? I'm not alone. I second every word of that.
 
I like how pax does it.

TheNocturnus should have a long conversation with his wife. He could prepare a series of short videos of criminals engaged in crime so she can see what can happen to her. There is quite a bit of stuff on youtube that you can use. Once she sees the ruthlessness of the criminal actors, she should come around.

Once tact you may wish to take is to walk her through a scenario where someone takes the baby from her arms at the mall. Perhaps she gets knocked down. She should think about what to do and the time she has to act before that kid is gone.

If she won't even do that, then in my mind you have some serious thinking to do about the future of your marriage since children will be involved.
 
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Like Constantine and Pax I too am always armed, at home and out and about. My wife on the other hand does not want to carry a gun or really even have anything to do with them. I do not mind filling the protector role but I am not always at home when she is. I want her to know how to defend herself and our child should the need arise.

I mentioned earlier that I tried to get my wife to go to Pax's site (corneredcat.com) and she won't. Pax, what is your advise on the matter?
 
I have this vision in my head of this naked dude streaming water jumping out of the shower with the shower curtain all tangled around him so he can grab his blaster and take out the jokers who just kicked in his bathroom door!

You really believe that your bathroom door will slow down someone that serious about coming after you long enough for you to get out of the shower and grab your gun?

Very few houses in my experience have hardened bathroom doors.

Personally, I believe in a layered defense where anything that requires a gun will trigger sufficient warning for me to get out of the shower. If you think you can do anything about it when you're in the shower and the goblins are coming in the bathroom door, that's a fine fantasy and I hope you enjoy it!
 
Sophomoric imaginations entertain me greatly.

Did you read any of the previous posts? They're better words to explain the reasoning. You just don't want to see them.

If someone feels the need for something that someone else doesn't, move on. I hope that helps you greatly in your future endeavors.

Let it go. You don't, that's fine..I do..Life moves on for you. Or so I thought....
 
I mentioned earlier that I tried to get my wife to go to Pax's site (corneredcat.com) and she won't. Pax, what is your advise on the matter?
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Seriously self-serving here, but you asked: buy the book. Read it. Don't try to hand it to her or talk her into reading it. Just read it, and sometimes leave it lying around somewhere accessible when you leave the house. (The cover is fun, not scary, and if she asks you can say you know the author online, and that I told you there's good stuff in it for guys too.)

That said? There's absolutely nothing you can do to "make" another adult do something they don't want to do. You can raise barriers or lower them, and that's about it.

To lower the barriers and make it easier for her to think a little more about her own safety, try providing just a little information. Mostly, you'll need to ask lots of questions.

The information could be something like showing her the statistics for how many times houses in your area have been broken into during the day, or if there's been a recent news story about this particular scam, draw that to her attention. Not in a negative or judgmental way, just as a "wow, I didn't realize this was so common..." Then shut up.

That's the key: shut up and let her think about it. Don't add another word and don't lecture with a bunch of should-have's and ought-to's. Just provide the information and shut up. It might make her start asking questions, which would be your goal.

Later, other times, you can ask questions. When a news story about crime comes on the TV while you're watching it together, say something like, "Wow, that was really rough. What do you think those people should have done?" Then shut up. Shut up and listen to her answers. Don't correct her ideas or squash them, no matter how misguided they seem to be. Just ask the question and shut up.

Why do I say that shutting up is the key? Because your true goal is to get the questions into her mind. You want to plant little time-bomb questions in her mind. When you keep talking, especially if she feels like you are forcing "the answer" down her throat, she will argue against the answers, which means she'll never even think about the question or even realize there was one.

But if, instead, you focus on the question, and make it her question to answer, she'll have to go look for the answers for herself.

Once she realizes the questions are there and that they are her questions, your job is done. Because a woman who's looking for answers about safety from violent crime will always be safer than one who is not.

pax
 
If someone feels the need for something that someone else doesn't, move on. I hope that helps you greatly in your future endeavors.
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It did, thanks!

You know, based on the list of guns in your signature line, you could keep one of your Glocks in the shower (the water won't hurt them) then you wouldn't even have to jump out to the crapper to get to it!
 
Doggonit, I hate pulling on the moderator hat in a thread where I'm actively participating, but ...

It's time to let it go, please. You've both had your say.

pax
 
Yes ma'am. My Glock made a new friend in the shower as we speak. A rubber ducky.


Also, as you saw me mention your book on the forum. I did so to my girlfriend. She gave me positive feedback on what she read on the website alone. I'll be getting her her first gun and that book as a surprise when she completes the concealed carry class for her permit. I have the gun in line and everything.

I'll let the forum know how it goes.
 
pax,

sorry to throw an iron into the fire, but with regard to the "kicking in the bathroom door" thing...

.45 auto says he believes in a layered defense. That's great. So do I, so does Mas Ayoob, and so does the DOD. (I was an aircraft carrier Tactical Action Officer and carrier battle group Force Over the Horizon Track Coordination officer at one time, if you want to talk layered defense...)

The thing is, if .45 auto has a layered defense akin to mine, which is really fairly basic, then a beeper will go off when somebody opens an exterior entry; dogs will bark if somebody enters the house (and probably before they actually get to the house); and the entry points are locked.

Oh, yeah, the two 60lb dogs might be a bit of a distraction and delaying action for the intruder(s), too. The Jack Russell, not so much, but she's more of an early warning system.

So, if I'm in the shower, the odds are nobody will get near the bathroom door to kick it in. I should have some lead time.

If, on the other hand, .45 auto expects a goblin to get to his bathroom door while he's in the shower, then he really does not have any semblance of a layered defense.

Meanwhile, I agree with you and Constantine. I just put one on as a matter of course, and then I don't have to think about it.

I don't play the lottery, and I don't try to guess when I might really need a gun.
 
Well said Leake, well said. ;)


Another thing I failed to mention. Is that I want my gun always under my supervision. You really think I'm going to put it back in the safe every time I have to do something around the house? So it's always with me :)
 
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