Why you can never be too careful

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Due to the differences in state laws, about what is and isn't a certain class of offense, claims that it is this or that level of homicide are only relevant if they match the law that has jusridiction, in this case, I believe it is New Mexico law.

The specific details of how, or why the event happen only matter in what the eventual charges are going to be. Murder (some level), manslaughter (some level) Homicide (some level) the terms and requirements differ from state to state so lets see what he gets charged with in NM.

The fact that he was holding the gun, and it fired is NOT in dispute. There is NO WAY he is not responsible. even if the gun was BROKEN (and I doubt it is) he is still responsible. Whether he meant to, or not, he is still responsible.

What bothers me the most is that he is still playing word games, to try and convince everyone he is not responsible, probably because he, himself believes he is not responsible. Of course, this is not a new pattern for him. It's basically worked to allow him to avoid responsibility for his actions and statements every time before....:rolleyes:

He does not get to avoid his direct, personal responsibilty for what happened.
He violated ALL of the safe gun handling rules, and a woman died as the result. I don't give a rodent's posterior how he felt about, or what he intended, what happened, happened, and he does not get a pass because he is an actor, or because it happened on a movie set.

To fire a Colt pattern single action revolver, the hammer must be pulled back, and released. HE DID THAT. No amount of self deception or even genuine belief that he "didn't pull the trigger" matters. Maybe he didn't knowingly "pull" the trigger. Maybe he had a fat finger in the trigger guard holding the trigger back so the hammer didn't catch and stand at full cock.

MACHTS NICHTS!

I seriously doubt that this was the very first time he ever handled a single action revolver. There is NO WAY he did not understand how the gun worked. Even as "just an actor", he KNEW what to do to fire the gun. And, I believe he did exactly that. I believe he didn't intend for the gun to actually fire, and completely failed in his personal responsibility to ensure that.

My personal opinion is that he should be held accountable, pay every legal penalty for his actions, and then some, but, that's just me. :rolleyes:

I would feel differently if he were the kind of man who would admit how terribly he screwed up and face the consequences openly and honestly. He's not doing that. and, apparently, he's not listening to any competent lawyer, either.
 
mehavey said:
drew the hammer to almost full cock and apparently released it.
That will make an SSA go bang.
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Uuuuuh... No
A stock reproduction SAA has four distinct "catch" points in pulling the hammer back.
Any of those points would stop the hammer fall he describes.
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None of the four cocking stops will stop the hammer if the trigger is pulled while manipulating the hammer. There's even a term for it -- it's called "slip firing," and this is how the gun is operated when fanning the hammer.

The range of trigger travel is extremely short on a SAA, especially compared to a double action anything (revolver or semi-auto). Being an anti-gun person, I doubt that Baldwin has ever bothered to learn proper trigger finger discipline, so I suspect that any time he picks up a gun his finger goes into the trigger window and on the trigger.

Hold a SAA like that and then start to pull back the hammer, and if you don't exercise good trigger discipline the natural tendency will be for the entire hand to clench as the thumb pulls on the hammer spur. Experienced shooters have learned over time to disengage the trigger finger from what the rest of the hand does. For a non-shooter, my bet is that when the hand muscles tightened up, the trigger finger went along for the ride -- resulting in the trigger being fully pulled to the rear as he was cocking the hammer.

This would mean that the sear was retracted and not in position to catch the hammer. Therefore -- release hammer, gun goes off.

This was not an accident. I am prepared to accept that it was unintentional, but it was not an "accident." It was a negligent discharge, ultimately caused by the person holding the gun not knowing how it works. The problem is that so many other protocols were violated (live ammo on a movie set where there wasn't supposed to be live ammo; assistant director calling it a cold gun without checking it; pointing the gun AT people, rather than just off-target; no lexan shield between the camera and the actor with the gun) that all the breaches of safety protocols added up to a perfect storm of violations that resulted in one person being killed and a second person being seriously wounded.
 
I would feel differently if he were the kind of man who would admit how terribly he screwed up and face the consequences openly and honestly. He's not doing that. and, apparently, he's not listening to any competent lawyer, either.
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Baldwin seems consumed by grief, over his reputation and not much else.
 
Supposedly,there were 3 guns on the cart. A Composite inert gun, A replica gun modified so it would not accept live ammo, and a fully functional lethal gun capable of being loaded with live ammo. Not only capable of,but apparently WAS loaded with at least one live round.

Often with a tragic event,a chain leads to it. People,choices,events.
IMO,the Armorer is one link,as is the Assistant Director.

Alec Baldwin could gain some credibility if he would just own his responsibility.

"there was no live ammo on the set"

"I never put my finger on the trigger"

"I would never point a gun"

Where do the lies stop?

Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

Never point a gun at anything you do not want to destroy

Pick either to actually do,and Halya is alive and smiling today. Just get one right.

You are an Actor,Alec,and its a performance.

There is no conceivable way you can absolve yourself of the primary responsibility in the tragic death of Halya,
 
I think he is attention seeking. I am sure his attorney did not suggest he had that interview last night. No such thing as bad publicity.
 
I did hear on another forum...that Baldwin possibly used a Pedersoli IFG SASS 1873 Custom revolver in the tragic, negligent discharge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2l55pwGBFk


I'm possibly wrong again: Now I'm told by a poster on another forum: That it's an Italian-made Pietta 1873 Long Colt
 
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Aquila said:
None of the four cocking stops will stop the hammer if the trigger is pulled . . .
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True, but irrelevant to the point that he says he didn't pull the trigger
"...the hammer just fell...."
 
The disgusting thing to me is that he is hinting that he was set up. That is wasn't his fault because someone else created the situation where he just touched the gun and it went off.

So what he is really doing is trying to get the authorities to charge someone else with pre-meditated murder instead of him dealing with whatever accidental charge he would get (I assume that would manslaughter or something along those lines).
 
mehavey said:
Aquila said:
None of the four cocking stops will stop the hammer if the trigger is pulled . . .
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True, but irrelevant to the point that he says he didn't pull the trigger
"...the hammer just fell...."
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That's if you believe that he didn't pull the trigger. I believe, and I think several firearms experts agree, that Baldwin almost certainly had his finger in the trigger window and unknowingly had the trigger pulled as he was cocking the gun. That means the sear wasn't in position to catch the hammer so, when he released the hammer ... it fell.

It's called "slip firing," and it's what they do in the movies when fanning a sixgun.

[Edit to add] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanning_(firearms)

Explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZdXGX61pao
 
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Aguila, slip-firing isn't the issue.

1. Baldwin say "The trigger wasn't pulled, I didn't pull the trigger."
2. Baldwin says he “I let go of the hammer — bang, the gun goes off."

Baldwin can't have it both ways.
 
IF we are to believe him, then slipfiring IS the issue. He may not have "pulled" the trigger but if his finger was pressing it back, then the gun WILL "slip fire" when you let go of the hammer, which is what he says happened.

In some ways this is like holding someone's head underwater. HE didn't drown them, the water did that....:rolleyes:
 
He may not have "pulled" the trigger but if his finger was pressing it back....
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If that's his tact... we used to call that "quibling" .... usually fatal to continued presence at trade school.



____________________________
quibble \KWIB-ul\ verb. 1 : to evade the point of an argument by caviling about words.
 
I don't think Baldwin is using this argument as a diversion. All the videos calling him out on it and explaining how exactly what he described is entirely possible came out after his interview. I think he probably believed that he didn't "pull" the trigger -- because he doesn't understand enough about how a SAA works to know how short the trigger travel is, and that having the trigger held back when you cock it results in a slip fire. He may not have intended to hold it back, but he probably has poor trigger discipline.

So he probably told the truth -- from his perspective. That doesn't in any way alter the fact that HE is the person who pulled the trigger, and HE is the person who was pointing a firearm at a person when he fired the gun.
 
There only has to be enough pressure on the trigger to overcome the tension of the sear spring in order to slip fire. That will vary gun but it might be ounces.

The trigger pull to release a correct full cock trigger pull is typically much more.
 
because he doesn't understand enough about how a SAA works
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because he's an actor, right??

I know it sounds good, but I have a hard time buying that particular wolf ticket...

While I'm not familiar with everything he's done, was this his, first western??
Was it the first day of his first western? Did he never before do a scene or play a character who used a single action revolver?

isn't it part of the actor's JOB to learn how to realistically operate the props??

He knew how to cock the gun, he knew how to pull the trigger, he was reportedly "practicing" when the gun went off. I fully believe he knew how to operate the mechanism in order to fire the gun.

Claiming he didn't, just doesn't "pass the sniff test".

If there is any footage, anywhere of him using a Single Action revolver, including previously shot footage from "RUST", any claim he didn't know how to use the gun is easily debunked.
 
I actually witnessed this on a revolver, resulted in a negligent discharge into the dirt.

A relative of mine was cocking the hammer and had their finger on the trigger, when the hammer was released, the gun fired. I don’t recall the make and model of the gun, except it was chambered in 45 colt. Shook the person up for a while, they wasn’t aware of the finger touching the trigger. I was standing right beside them. I tried to say something but it was over too quickly.
 
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