Why won't the major ammunition companies come out with 45-70 + P loads ?

Technically, there is no such thing as a .45-70 +P, That is to say, the SAAMI does not recognize such a thing and they are the only ones here who set the standards, which, by the way, are entirely voluntary. In other words, you can do anything you want and call it anything you want, and you won't hear from them.

According to them, the average copper units of pressure for a .45-70 is 28,000. A .458 magnum is 53,000 and there are some that are even higher. But the only rifle cartridge given a +P specification is the .257 Roberts. A .30-06 Springfield, as they call it, is at 50,000 but the .308 is 52,000.

Among handgun cartridges, there are +P listings for 9mm, .38 special and believe it or not, .45 automatic. The .38 Super is listed only as +P, which I had guessed at earlier. They do not recognize +P+ as a standard pressure.

For some reason I didn't see a listing for .450 Marlin. They also do not define magnum, either, and some very high pressure cartridges do not use that name.
 
This is my point...if major ammunition companies offered 45-70 + P ammo loaded to reasonable pressures for most modern rifles (say no more than 35000 psi) , I think the prices could be more competitive and drop in price compared to specialized ammunition ! Also, more offerings in different bullet weights would be nice as well from the major ammo makers ! However , due to the lack of interest and liability issues this is but a pipe dream so reloading is the best solution and kind of fun at that....but in a pinch it would be nice !
 
This might get me flamed, since I am a new member of the forum, but how can the cost-per-round matter when we are talking about game-hunting rounds that will shove our butts into the next county when we fire them? Other than sighting-in, nobody I know fires this ammunition for the fun of it. I spent a long time in Africa. Best I recall, when you go on a hunt there (and because of the gun/ammo control laws that we don't want here), you purchase all of your ammo from your camp/safari/guide. It starts at $5.00 a cartridge and goes up to $12.00-15.00 in a hurry, especially if you use a double gun and shoulder-busters like .600 Nitro.

This isn't target ammo. It shouldn't be expected to cost like target ammo.

And if you spend $15.00 per round on a hunt in which you bag a trophy of any kind, how much does that $150.00 rally matter?

Flame away.
 
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Flo..Vet....I kinda understand what U mean....I shoot a lot of ammo each year....Most of it hunting....I hunt hogs and coyotes year round..and we have a lot of em....One fella on our lease has dispatched 29 hogs so far..since the first of the year.....This is not counting the misses or ones that were gut shot and ran off...I have been very busy and only shot 7...It is a down year for me..but I expect things to pick up....It could get into some money if I only used the 45-70 with Buffalo Bore ammo....I also hunt with a 30-06 and 308....Remington corelocks in the 308..It is deadly and ammo is cheap....
Maybe I'm just a little bit cheap...but these are just hogs..not African game....I would be more particular if I were hunting there....I like the 45-70 because it is a lever action and I like the thought of a big bullet slappin a big ole boar....
 
USE THIS AMUNITION IN FIREARMS THAT ARE IN GOOD CONDITION, AND ORIGINALY CHAMBERED FOR THIS CARTRIDGE. All are head stamped Lever Gun 45-70 Mag
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Just exactly who makes a 45-70 Mag and if they are talking about a regular 45-70, I wonder if they will replace the hammer and firing pin and pay the doctor bills for someone shooting that out of an 1885 with the BP firing pin.
 
Because sooner or later, some DOLT would shove one into a trap-door Springfield.....and blow himself up. Then, he'd sue the ammo company over the "defective" ammo.
Click to expand...

Bingo!!
Winchester used to manufacture high velocity ammo in calibers .38-40 and .44-40 for their model 1892 rifle. There were warnings on the boxes against using that ammo in model 1873 rifles and revolvers. People blew their rifles and pistols up, got injured and sued. Warning labels mean nothing to shooters who don't read warning labels.

About 50 years ago several shooters told an acquaintance not to use Winchester high velocity ammo in his model 1873 rifle. He blew up the gun and was blinded in his right eye.
 
personally i think they dont load 45-70 ammo hot for two reasons: 1. liability and 2. SAAMI, somebody brought it up earlied in the thread that they set the standards for cartridge pressures.
 
I'm not talking safari loads.....just a little more enhanced loads that are suitable for just about every modern rifle made and not civil war relics ! Yes , they are hunting loads that are hopefully affordable for most to acquire even for mere black bear , moose , hog , elk , or white tail deer ! So has Garrett and Buffalo Bore had a lot of trouble with folks shooting their hotter ammo in old trapdoors ? :confused: I shoot mostly mild handloads for target practice and fun but will also practice with loads I want to hunt with before the season starts!
 
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Ok, I'll bite. What are you going to do with that hot .45-70 in the lower 48 that can't be done with a standard pressure .45-70? If you're looking for a round for grizz or brown bear protection, buffalo bore delivers. How many people really shoot .45-70 a lot? Most that do shoot "bunny farts" rather than the raging magnums. I've loaded both, and I can tell you which one is more fun. The major manufacturers won't do it because the cost-benefits won't add up. Most people who know what buffalo bore does know what their rifle is capable of. If you can buy it at wal-mart, any idiot with granddaddy's ole smokepole will stuff it in there. Basically, the small profit they make off of responsible shooters won't outweigh the lawsuits from people who manufactured pipe bombs out of what used to be a Springfield.
 
How many people really shoot a 45-70 alot....funny you should ask ! :)

Getting back to the fun of shooting...two of the loads shown are above the standard pressures of the 45-70 and easy to manage especially in hunting conditions ! Anyway, its all about having fun and keeping safe....I guess I'll just keep rolling my own hotter loads !
 

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Twice in this thread has "civil war" and .45-70 been mentioned together, and they just don't fit together. "Indian wars" and .45-70 fit.

I've known a number of folks over the years that shot .45-70s. Trapdoors, Sharps, Winchesters, Marlins, Rugers, and Mausers. Have a Ruger (no.3), and a T/C Contender in .45-70 (and no, I don't shoot the same (heavy)loads in both). Also had a Marlin and a Mauser, now traded as excess to my needs.

Everyone I know who is serious about shooting their .45-70 handloads. And that is the base reason I think you don't see hot +p loads from the major ammo companies. Its a niche market, and smaller ammo companies have already pretty well filled the niche.

Also, there isn't anything regularly hunted in the continental US that a "standard" (black powder velocities) .45-70 load won't kill DRT. Warm it up a little bit, in a suitable rifle, and it works just as well. Might even work a little bit better, but dead is dead.

I've pushed 350gr to 2200fps in my little Ruger. Hits hard on both ends! A 400gr at 1800fps does too. But a factory 405gr at 1300 drops deer right there as well, if you do your part.

You can't push anything fast enough to make the .45-70 a really flat shooter, so for long range, you just have to learn the drop. And if you can learn it for a +p load, you can learn it for a standard load as well. Speed is nice, but the .45-70's forte is mass. 95% of my shooting the .45-70 is with standard velocity handloads. I save the real thumpers for when they are most useful, and that's a rare thing in my life these days.

Not saying Buffalo bore and Garrett don't make some good stuff, but my needs are fully met by what I handload, and much, much cheaper too!
 
One could just as easily get a .458 Winchester Magnum and load it down as easily as loading up a .45-70. Of course, your choice of rifles won't be the same, though the Ruger No. 1 is available in both. It isn't an inexpensive rifle, though.

There is frequent mention here of the old Trapdoor Springfield. I had one of the H&R reproduction models. Because of the design, it was probably no stronger than one made 90 years earlier. But what about the other older rifles that are still available. I think Sharps are available, probably Rolling Blocks and who knows what else. Someone even had a double-barrel rifle in .45-70, too, at least for a while. How do those other not-quite-modern rifles fit in the strength department?
 
Good call on the history of the 45-70-405....it was produced by Springfield Armory in 1873 for their trapdoor model well after the civil war ! The 50-70 government was produced prior to the 45-70 in 1866 !
 
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