Why use a DA over a SA?

I know lots of people love .22 revolvers, but personally I never saw the need for them. If you plan on using the gun in any self defense capacity, just get a .357 IMO. You can practice with .38 wadcutters (you can get some really cheap .38 ammo online if you look for it in bulk) and you still have the full-house .357 option for self defense reasons. Even a .38 special, with capacity to shoot .38 +P would be a step up if you plan on even considering the revolver for SD. Otherwise, if it's just for plinking, you should get a Heritage Arms .22 revolver. It's single action, but if you don't need it for self defense, the price is right at just under $200. I don't see the utility in spending more than 200 or so on a gun that will have no self defense capacity and will be used purely for a range plinker.

I renew my suggestion of the 4" bbl Ruger GP100 or a 3" SP101 for a good double action .357 revolver for self defense that won't break the bank.
 
If Jeff Cooper really recommended firing a shot at random in order to cock the gun and be "more comfortable" he was an idiot. I can't believe anyone would advocate wasting a shot and maybe killing an innocent person in a serious confrontation just because he is too lazy or incompetent to learn to use the gun in DA.

Jim
 
I know lots of people love .22 revolvers, but personally I never saw the need for them. If you plan on using the gun in any self defense capacity, just get a .357 IMO. You can practice with .38 wadcutters (you can get some really cheap .38 ammo online if you look for it in bulk) and you still have the full-house .357 option for self defense reasons. Even a .38 special, with capacity to shoot .38 +P would be a step up if you plan on even considering the revolver for SD. Otherwise, if it's just for plinking, you should get a Heritage Arms .22 revolver. It's single action, but if you don't need it for self defense, the price is right at just under $200. I don't see the utility in spending more than 200 or so on a gun that will have no self defense capacity and will be used purely for a range plinker.
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Hooo-boy, where to start...

First off, .22LR is cheaper than any centerfire ammo you will find, even rolling your own. It's also easier to teach a new shooter with without creating bad habits (flinching). Not everybody owns firearms purely on the basis of their value for self-defense. Actually, thinking about it now, only one of my firearms was bought specifically because of it's ability to fill a defensive role. And I know I am not the only one who does this.

Besides, the little .22 below is the ONLY gun I've ever had somebody ask me "How much do you want for it?" after letting another shooter test fire it. Nobody ever asked about the Glocks, the .357 or the .44... ;)

22s_01.jpg


To the OP, a good first handgun would be a Ruger .22 semi-auto or a DA .357 revolver. If you could swing both, that would be good. You can practice the fundamentals of technique with the Ruger and a lot of it will transfer to the .357. Shooting double action with a revolver is NOT hard, it is all just front sight and trigger squeeze in the end. Something like a Ruger GP-100 or S&W 686 will take all the dry-firing you can stand, which is another great way to practice trigger control with the revolver. But lots of cheap shooting with a .22 will make sight alignment, breathing and follow-through second nature. This transfers to any firearm you may own or be offered to shoot.

That's why they are the fundamentals, after all. It's the base you build off of in the future.
 
Our instructor tried giving him some help but it didnt help much. Later in the classroom the instructor told us that guy was using a double action handgun which is more difficult to aim.
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What ? He's a dummy. DA vs SA has nothing to do with aiming the gun.

Everyone instantly seemed to jump on revolvers, however several semi's are also DA.... such as Beretta's, Springield 1911, etc. And, there are SA revolvers.

The advantage of the DA is if the ammo fails to fire intially, pull the trigger again and it will let the hammer hit it again. However, a SA... you will have to chamber a new round ... because it won't ready the firing pin until you do for a second try. If it's a revolver, pulling back the hammer again, or a semi... racking the slide again.

The DA trigger may take a little more getting used to than a SA, as most have a longer trigger pull. Personally, I like a DA gun for the reasons above.
 
If Jeff Cooper really recommended firing a shot at random in order to cock the gun and be "more comfortable" he was an idiot.
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I don't believe Cooper said that. But it is true he didn't like the DA/SA semi-autos; called 'em "crunch-n-tickers" IIRC. I see his point, but I like my S&W 4013 very much.
 
I don't agree that striker fired pistols are double action. They are single action. You pull the trigger, it fires. If its not cocked then it doesn't fire. Kind of like a SA 1911...hmm...
anyway, why have DA over SA? Well, because the choice is nice to have at the range. I start my shooting in DA mode to get used to this for "real life" situations. I don't carry cocked and locked and I don't need to nor want to.
My answer in short is preference
 
don't know if anybody has mentioned it...

but a double action revolver is a lot easier to load and unload...

I have a Ruger Single Six and that is the one gripe I have with this revolver... it is a pain to unload and load especially with iddy biddy cartridges..

larger caliber single actions are a little easier but still more difficult than a revolver that the cylinder swings out.
 
DA vs SA auto

While some people may feel there's no inherent safety factor in the DA over the SA (and given a lot of training this may be so), there is one key area where the DA is at least somewhat safer. That would be covering a BG who has surrendered.

In that case, the longer, heavier pull of the DA can protect you from firing the gun due to a nervous flinch. It's easier to make my 4lb, very short travel 1911 trigger depress than it is to pull my 6.5lb, longer travel P239 trigger. That makes it easier to shoot the 1911 quickly and accurately, but also easier to engage the trigger when I might not really want to.

Haven't done it yet, but then again I've never yet had to hold somebody at gunpoint while my adrenaline was shooting through the roof.

This is a major reason why most PD's require DA or DAO autos, or DA revolvers. To avoid accidental discharges under high stress situations, when an officer is covering a suspect.
 
While some people may feel there's no inherent safety factor in the DA over the SA (and given a lot of training this may be so), there is one key area where the DA is at least somewhat safer. That would be covering a BG who has surrendered.
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So then we are to assume that he has surrendered to someone that either didn't fire his weapon at all, or if so, has decocked it? Clicking the safety back on on your 1911 would accomplish the same. Don't know about most, but I'm far quicker clicking off the safety and firing accurately the first shot of my 1911 than I am firing accurately the DA first shot of my HKUSPC, just in case a BG decided to de-surrender.
 
In that case...

.... maybe you should get your DA trigger tuned.

I am more than capable of hitting center mass at near ranges with a DA shot, quickly. I've parted company with pistols whose DA shots proved too ornery.

So now I have a mix of cocked and locked (1911s, CZ75B), striker DAO (Kahr and a S&W on the way), SIG DAK, and DA revolvers. I can comfortably shoot any reasonable target at in the house ranges with a DA pull.
 
One tip: lay a coin flat on the top of the barrel just behind the front sight. Now, dry firing, see if you can pull the trigger six times without the coin falling off. When you can do that, you've mastered the technique!
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Stevieboy is right on this. Thats how I learned and it works. A good double action or double action only semi-auto pistol shooter can shoot accurately at 10 yds with practice. This is good enought for most self defense situations.

Single action will be more accurate. But I feel a person has to think more in a self defense situation to shoot a single action semi-auto. This could be a problem if the person has not practice enough. DA/SA revolver is easier because all a person has to do is point and pull the trigger. There is not any safeties to think about.

Nothing wrong with a Single action revolver but loading is slower and to become fast shooting a single action a person has to practice a lot to become good shooting rapidly.

Whichever type of revolver you pick practice is the key. Also, a person usually become addicted to buying revolvers like me. I love them.

Good luck,
Howard
 
Our instructor tried giving him some help but it didnt help much. Later in the classroom the instructor told us that guy was using a double action handgun which is more difficult to aim.
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Not really. Or, not significantly, with practice.

Thoughts:

Revolvers can be more difficult to shoot well. At least in my experience.

This class -- was it primarily safety and familiarization, or did he cover marksmanship? How many shots fired?

The one and only class I've taken so far covered, in addition to many other things, grip, stance, sighting and trigger control. And, we put a fair number of rounds downrange over a day's time. That made a huge difference in how well I shot.
 
This is a major reason why most PD's require DA or DAO autos, or DA revolvers. To avoid accidental discharges under high stress situations, when an officer is covering a suspect.
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I've trained both law enforcement and civilians. The #1 safety violation we get among new shooters is poor trigger discipline. It makes me cringe, but the DA trigger does present something of a hardware solution to a software problem.

That said, a good DA revolver is a marvelous learning tool. It teaches patience and control. I know those things are a bit passé in these high-speed, low-drag times we live in, but consider this: most civilian shootings are over in two shots. Placement of those shots is vitally important. That means accuracy, not speed.

A good DA trigger is not much harder to shoot well than an SA trigger with practice. It's just different. Think stick-shift vs. automatic. Bear in mind that trick shooters like Ed McGivern did that stuff in DA, on stock guns.

It is truly a different technique, however. I shoot revolvers almost exclusively, and upon sighting in a Hi-Power for someone the other day, my first two shots went 3" high due to me slapping the trigger :rolleyes:
 
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This class -- was it primarily safety and familiarization, or did he cover marksmanship? How many shots fired?
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It was primarily safety and familiarization. We only had 10 rounds to shoot with a .22 pistol. I'm guessing it was a 1911 .22.

I was able to get all my shots in the black circle which is about 3" or 3 1/2" diameter at roughly 15' to 20' with two in the bulls eye.

It was only my second at time at a firing range, I think I'm a natural :)
 
Tom Servo said:
A good DA trigger is not much harder to shoot well than an SA trigger with practice.
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I want to buy some revolvers for target practice
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As Tom Servo suggests, you can be very good and accurate with the DA trigger, but it'll likely take even more practice. A smooth action helps as well. Get good, though, and you're able to do something not many others can. Besides, if you ever want to shoot a revolver in an IDPA, ICORE or USPSA match, it'll be DA all the way.

Check out these 2 targets - both were shot 2-handed unsupported, using the same gun (6" K-38), distance (15 yards), ammo (HBWC over bullseye), and number of rounds (5). The difference was that one was shot single action, the other double action. If they weren't marked, you'd likely have a tough time figuring which was which.

15 yards, single action:
thrholidaymatch09k38.jpg


15 yards, double action:
MiscellaneousPicsfrom08196.jpg



One tip: lay a coin flat on the top of the barrel just behind the front sight. Now, dry firing, see if you can pull the trigger six times without the coin falling off. When you can do that, you've mastered the technique!
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It's a good drill, but no one really masters the technique...even when you don't have to lay the coin flat. The journey to DA perfection is never-ending, but there's a Zen thing to it I enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nES4A0rd1ak&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmy5mkjpUNI

CoinExtendedArmTrigger.jpg
 
When Col. Cooper wrote about 'shot cocking,' he was not suggesting that the first shot be at random. He fully expected that it should be aimed. Being a SA auto guy, though, he was suggesting that the DA/SA shooter not expect to begin getting proper results until the gun was in SA mode. Based on that theory, I believe his conclusion was simply that the shooter make that first aimed DA shot without delay, and any fine sight work should be saved for the lighter SA trigger.
 
I believe his conclusion was simply that the shooter make that first aimed DA shot without delay, and any fine sight work should be saved for the lighter SA trigger.
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Not so.

He thought DA/SA autos were a solution in search of a non-existent problem.

He called them "crunchentickers" and that was a pejorative.

"a hardware solution to a software problem."
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Indeed!

Flinging an unsighted round down range is foolish, as you are responsible for every bullet you launch.
 
In that case...

.... maybe you should get your DA trigger tuned.
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Could very well be. I don't have anything to compare it to as the HK is the only DA auto I own. But I think it's DA trigger pretty crappy.
 
Could very well be. I don't have anything to compare it to as the HK is the only DA auto I own. But I think it's DA trigger pretty crappy.
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If you think it's bad, it probably is. I've tried a couple of USPs and think they have lousy triggers, to be blunt. Single-actions weren't terrible, but the DAs were. As a consulation prize, I don't think my brother's CZ-75 or most other DA/SA autos have decent DA pulls. The only one I can remember being close to a S&W DA revolver was a tuned Sig P-220 in .45.
 
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