Why the sudden interest in Mosin Nagants?

I also want to add, that there is a reason the MN shoots high. You have to remember these weapons were issued to farmers, peasants, you know common folk. The red army taught BELT BUCKLE MOA. Meaning no matter what range aim for the belt buckle. The Mosin sights were set up to shoot high right out of the factory. There are other WWII era rifles that are way better in terms of quality, etc. But the old battleaxe was built fast and cheap, and it did the job. At first (due to lack of rifles) some red army soldiers were only issued a uniform, and ammo, the intent was to pick up a rifle from a fallen comrade and carry forward. Sorry to go off on a Mosin history rant, but that is the whole reason I love C&R's is the history behind all of them.
 
A lot of gun owners have well-established batteries. Smart folks have been on their "binge" long before the recent panic. Consequently, they are increasingly looking for back-ups, truck guns, and beaters.

The Mosin-Nagant answers the mail.
 
well the russians had a whole lot of targets in a small enclave,that helped them rack up high scores, the finns had the same deal and they did the same thing. the russians had to keep moving as the army had special squads that were to shoot any one diddling around or retreating. stalin didn,t give a sh#t about the russian soldiers. eastbank.
 
My "Izzy" 1943 M91-30 "true" sniper rifle... shoots 1 3/4" moa at 100 yards, using corrosive Russian N-1 sniper ammo. I would say, it would sell in the $800-$1,000 range.

German soldiers...during WW2, had a great fear of the M91-30, equipped with a PU 3.5X22mm scope.
My Mosin's {3}...need to be held with a firm grip.


The rifle has a long battleground history. You can check out my thread, on excerpts from Vasily Zaitsev's book --- Deadly Game at Stalingrad --- made into a major motion picture: Enemy at the Gates

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread773192/pg1-77k
 
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Are we really comparing a uncommon shooter shooting an uncommon Mosin to common shooters firing away with left over, used up, non cared for rifles designed and built fast without the least attention to detail? Wow. Buy a Mosin and you too could be the worlds next greatest sniper.
 
IMHO supplies of other surplus rifles-Lee Enfields, Mausers, US, have been pretty well exhausted. While somewhat crude by our standards the Mosin-Nagant was as widely issued as the Lee-Enfields and Mausers, had a service life starting with its introduction in 1891 and going into the 1960s-and is a real piece of military history.
 
^^^ so is a Carcano.... :eek:


Which is, according to the Warren Commission, the fastest firing and most accurate bolt action rifle ever made. To the rest of us it's the worst POS that has ever been made, perhaps only rivaled by the Lebel (another rifle with real history)...


What's the point? ;)



Nearly 20 years ago I bought a brand new unfired Nagant Sniper (for about $1800 then), ex-Hungarian army, with correct scope, etc., to add to my sniper rifle collection of original sniper rifles (along with things like original Swedish 96 snipers, Springfield sniper, M1C and M1D snipers, Lungmann sniper, Kar-98K sniper, FN-49 sniper, Enfield #4 sniper, etc., etc., etc.

With over 20 military issue sniper rifles in my collection, the Nagant is the one I would take out of the chest last in case I needed a rifle to actually shoot anything with. It's probably the nicest Nagant you have ever seen. It is bottom of the barrel when compared to it's contemporaries.


I'd take the Enfield #4 sniper first, if anyone cares.


Just sayin'...


Willie


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Are we really comparing a uncommon shooter shooting an uncommon Mosin to common shooters firing away with left over, used up, non cared for rifles designed and built fast without the least attention to detail? Wow. Buy a Mosin and you too could be the worlds next greatest sniper.
Click to expand...

See you misunderstand. Zaytsev WAS a COMMON shooter shooting a COMMON rifle when his ability was DISCOVERED!! Read up on him before you go blabbering about. And ALL sniper rifles no matter WHAT type, make, etc. roll off the line WITH THE REST OF THE RIFLES! Its only after being test fired that the snipers are picked out. What do you think? Snipers were specially made in some special sniper factory!! :rolleyes:
 
^^^^

<yawn> :rolleyes:

You really ought to get a bit of education on the Soviet/Russian armament design, procurement, and manufacturing system.

Take that suggestion from someone who has as his full time profession the technical analysis and exploitation of Russian and former Soviet defense material on behalf of the US Department of Defense.


Willie


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So, you're saying that there WAS a special "sniper" factory that I have not read about? :D I have only read the articles stating what I posted above.
 
I can remember when Mauser K98Ks were going for less than $150 and Mosins were $75 or so, at that point if you wanted a surplus rifle you bought the Mauser. Now Mausers are going for quite a bit more but the Mosins are still reasonably price so for a first surplus rifle I think it's just about perfect. I like my Mosin, it shoots pretty well and isn't a bad looking rifle (at least it's not made with plastic). My next surplus rifle will be a Garand and then maybe a Mauser but I started with a Mosin because they are cheap and readily available.

Stu
 
You made a pretty broad statement that was not attributable to any one country.

Many (most) sniper rifles were arsenal manufactured specifically as a scoped rifle ab-initio when assembled.

That was true in Russia, and it was true elsewhere as well.

Contemplate M1-D, Springfield, Mauser, etc. The scope mounts are not something that are attached after the fact. They are integral components of the rifle system and need to be assembled when the weapon is either manufactured or arsenal remanufactured. There's no "cherry picking and then modifying after the fact" as a rule. You build them to spec, and they they meet spec.

Nagant Snipers, were manufactured at the arsenal (or remanufactured at an arsenal) with scope mount holes drilled and scope mounts attached, and they were test fired after the fact to ensure that they met specifications.


My own example, BTW, is a Hungarian M/52, propably the finest Nagant version made. I still rate it a "So what" when compared to other similar hardware. Cheek weld? You must be kidding.



Willie


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I'm not so concerned with .0125 MOA @ 300 yards. I just want a piece of history that I can shoot. My M1 Carbine hits about 2 feet high and right at 200 yards. I don't care. My great uncle carried it in WW2. I wouldn't trade it for any modern rifle, even if it could shoot the wings off a fly at that distance. Unless a stampede of terrorists decide to attack my shooting range, i don't plan on using it in a wartime scenario.
 
I agree with you Double Duece, good point.

Willie,
I'll have to check my source, but I've read the opposite. That the snipers came off the same line as the other 91/30 and they hand picked the best shooters then outfitted them. But that was way before my time and I can only cite the literature. But as they say history is sworn true by those who write the books.
 
weather you like it or not willie there is no reason to put down someone elses choice in rifles. maybe its the only high powered rifle they can afford, maybe they have a love of russian hardware, or maybe like me i just love the history in these old weapons and i can take it out shoot it and not break the bank and if i want i can take it deer hunting or actually any animal in the states if i am so inclined
 
Many (most) sniper rifles were arsenal manufactured specifically as a scoped rifle ab-initio when assembled.

That was true in Russia, and it was true elsewhere as well.
Click to expand...

I could swear I'd read an article where the Russians identified at least some of their snipers by testing for accuracy (meaning they were not expressly manufactured for that purpose)- and then marked the barrel accordingly...

I'm going to have to try to back up that memory.
 
^^^ I would need to see that from a primary source to have it be credible.

The massive manufacturing effort and the numbers involved in WW-II production weigh against such a method, when taken in the context of our knowlage of other Soviet defense material manufacture. Massive amounts of "pretty good" at the expense of any quantities of "excellent" is the doctrinal rule for Soviet defense material. "Perfection is the enemy of good enough" to quote Admiral Gorshkov.

Take this for what it's worth: Quality control on these was pretty darned good. The basic issue rifle was/is capable of fairly precise shooting. Good basic quality control means that you don't really need to specially select particular examples for modification. And remember that the distances for precision rifle fire designers with this generation of rifle was not more than 500 meters, this being well within the capability of a good service rifle accuracy value. Optics complemented the existing platorm. The Russians also early learned the value of squad level opticallyu equipped riflemen, who were not snipers per-se. Witness the integral optics mounts on the basic SVT-40, etc. These were not precision rifles, just rifles with a scope added when convenient.


I have no bias against people who like these things at all, I just view them in a broader context of desirability than them being available by the barrel. They are a good rifle. They are not a grear rifle. Ergonomics... well.... :eek:


Willie


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I don't think, its the greatest thing in the world, but it irritates me when gun snobs look down there nose at something just because it didn't cost half a months pay, or maybe a months pay to some. I have dirt cheap guns, and I have stupid expensive ones. I like them all. and the mosin is a pretty rifle to me (laminated stocked ones that is). Heck I even like the High point line! And have showed up a few glocksters with that 150 dollar brick! I'm a "firearms" collector. I like things that go BOOM, no matter what they cost. And a mosin will hold its own in my opinion with just a tad bit of work. I have no idea what a Mosin will do with modern ammo, but I do know my 1934 Tula will kill the heck out of some Melons, milk jugs full of water, Spray paint cans, etc with ole silver tip mil surp and do it with lots of bang and great fun!!
 
^^ Know what? You're dead right.

Fun is fun no matter how it's found. Find it and enjoy it. There's a niche for every man, and if it's collecting Mosins, you're a brother in arms in our struggle against those who would disarm us.


Willie


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