Why the lack of pump action rifles?

[elmbow]

I own all manner of rifles, old, new, bolts, levers, autos, some collectors, some not. Growing up in the Rockies I don't recall ever seeing a pump rifle. My grandfather shot a model 8 35 Rem, and yes, he took elk beyond 200 yards regularly with it, so I've always had a soft spot for "that" semi auto, otherwise gave them about as much thought as sporting pump rifles. IOW, none. Here about six years ago I was in my friends gun store in SLC, which has been in business about 90 years. They have an inventory of fabulous old collectible rifles. I was looking for a 336 in 35 Rem, and he brings a mutton leg case out to the counterr and takes out a 1918 C grade Remington model 14 in maybe 85-90% condition. Heretofore I had only ever seen one other model 14. The rifle went home with me, and now when ever I handle that rifle I am overwhelmed by the workmanship, the balance, and its trim lines. It's quite literally, IMO, as close to a nice upland double gun as any rifle could be. If I were ever forced to give up all my rifles but one, it would likely be the last to go. I think modern Remington pumps are clubs, but the old saw about not making them like they used to applies to the model 14 in spades. It goes with me elk hunting every year. So does my 35AI, and sometimes my BLR .358 but if I'm walking timber, the Model 14 is in my hand. It beats the heck out of any lever gun I own for fast shooting.

 

[cheygriz]

MY first 10 years in law enforcement, my department issued Remington 870 12 ga pumps.

After that nightmare, if I never see a pump action anything again, that will be too soon for me.

 

[22-rimfire]

Because it's inferior and unnecessary.

Inferior and unnecessary compared to what? Some people like the Remington center fire pump and they are very common in Penn's Woods. I went the turn bolt (bolt action) with my first "deer rifle", but my Dad swore by his 760 Remington and my brother loved his as well.

Home defense? What ever makes you happy.

 

[Doyle]

I agree - not at all inferior. The 760 was an extremely well built rifle.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

Anything a pump does, an auto loader does better.

Well, yeahhh, but EXCEPT that, in a rimfire, a pump is far more desirable than a semi-auto, particularly if it's a rimfire used for a self-defense application (rare but happens some), due to the increased likelihood of a rimfire dud - with a pump, you just keep on going if there's a dud - no malf-clearing necessary. I'm building the ultimate wifey / extreme-recoil sensitivity self-defense carbine right now off of a Rossi 59 in .22 mag. It will be cool when finished. Centerfire, though, yeah - why not just get a semi-auto?

Also, in a .22lr rimfire, self-defense or otherwise, a pump or lever is arguably superior to a semi-auto, if you want to run shorts and longs, in addition to long rifles.

Also, much was said above about semi-auto restriction laws like PA, in the hunting regs, contribute to pumps as the best-of-the-legal choices, if you think fast follow-up is needed. In that same vein, Calif. and New York gun laws being jacked up as they are, pumps like the 7615 Rem and the pump "AR15" from Troy are the best available legal options for speed, which IS needed in self defense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYRRzus9wto

And I disagree that a lever is the equal (or superior) to a pump in keeping sight picture while cycling. A pump is best in that category, given equal practice, save for a semi-auto. In my limited experience.

jaysouth, what optic is that?

 

[44 AMP]

Some people like the Remington center fire pump and they are very common in Penn's Woods.

The reason they are so common in Penn's Woods is that in Pennsylvania, its not legal to deer hunt with a semi auto.

due to the increased likelihood of a rimfire dud - with a pump, you just keep on going if there's a dud - no malf-clearing necessary.

Seriously? yes, the action clears the dud with its next working, be it pump, bolt, lever or semi auto.

So, ok with a semi to clear a dud you have to do something different than you do when shooting it, you have to manually work the action. Just like you have to manually work the action for every shot with a pump, lever, or bolt action.

 

[Unlicensed Dremel]

ok with a semi to clear a dud you have to do something different than you do when shooting it,

Right, exactly - that's the all-important difference. If you're pumping, shooting, pumping, shooting, etc, as fast as you can, you don't do anything different, so you're not slowed down, and no thought is required. Very important with adrenaline dump. You probably wouldn't even realize you had a dud of you were trying to empty a mag at an imminent deadly threat (tube mag in this case).

Stopping to clear a malf can take many life-critical seconds (the time to realize what's happened, the time to figure out what to do, the time to tap the mag to ensure seating, the time to move the firearm to a different position in your hands in order to physically be in a position to work the semi's charging handle, etc. - even then, manually cycling a semi-auto can often itself result in a jam, due to the difference in bolt speed) -- as opposed to the quarter to half second of clearing the dud with a pump or lever with zero thought. So yes, deadly serious.

But it all comes down to just how good or bad the rimfire priming is on average (mean # of rounds between duds)...these days, it seems to be pretty darned reliable, making the pump / semi distinction here based on priming type less of an issue. 30 years ago, I'd have said for sure, if I HAD to defend my life with a rimfire, I'd rather have a pump than a semi. Now, it's more of a tossup. Of course, it wouldn't apply to me, since I'd just use a semi centerfire. The entire premise here though, on this narrow issue, is for the extremely recoil-sensitive who would choose to use a rimfire for self-defense.

 

[Gunplummer]

Back when live turkey shoots were not frowned on in PA, those pump guys really put a hurting on "The talkers". I cannot say they are inferior to anything when it comes to eastern hunting. I am not a fan of pump, but I have seen what they can do.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Anything a pump does, an auto loader does better."

Incorrect.

In Pennsylvania a pump rifle does a FAR better job hunting big game.

That's because if you use a semi-auto rifle in Pennsylvania, you're going to lose the rifle through confiscation and may well end up sharing a cell with Ben Dover...

 

[Doyle]

Anything a pump does, an auto loader does better."

Also, I'd challenge anyone to name a hunting auto loader that will shoot a long-action cartridge better than a Remington pump does. There are only a handful of long-action autoloaders ever made for hunting. The Remington autoloaders are "less than reliable" and not terribly accurate. The Browning autoloaders were reliable but not nearly as accurate as the Remington pumps and they weigh more.