Mike Irwin
Staff
One of my fantasy rifles is a Colt Lightning large frame in .50-95 Winchester.
Why the lack of pump action rifles?
- Thread starter Inhimwelive
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reynolds357
New member
Ruger, how do you go about accomplishing a free floating barrel on a pump?
Ah the pump
I have hunted thick cover with Remington pump rifles since my first 760 (.300 Savage) back in 1966 . I can put 5 rounds into a 3" bullseye faster than anyone can with a semi auto , or a lever of the same caliber . If you learn to shoot them properly , and can chew gum , and walk at the same time , you can too ! They are a regional thing (Northeast) . Here in VT , used ones aren't on the rack for more than a couple of days , before they're snapped up . They are a hunting gun ! If you want to shoot from a bench , or have all day to get your follow up shot off , then the bolt is the right tool . If you like to "spray and pray" , and don't have the manual dexterity , to operate any kind of action , then semi auto is the way to go .
I have hunted thick cover with Remington pump rifles since my first 760 (.300 Savage) back in 1966 . I can put 5 rounds into a 3" bullseye faster than anyone can with a semi auto , or a lever of the same caliber . If you learn to shoot them properly , and can chew gum , and walk at the same time , you can too ! They are a regional thing (Northeast) . Here in VT , used ones aren't on the rack for more than a couple of days , before they're snapped up . They are a hunting gun ! If you want to shoot from a bench , or have all day to get your follow up shot off , then the bolt is the right tool . If you like to "spray and pray" , and don't have the manual dexterity , to operate any kind of action , then semi auto is the way to go .
For years..my regular hunting rifle was a Winchester 88 lever action in 308....
I went into the local gun shop one day....There was this short slim lightweight Remington 760 pump carbine in 308.... It was an early one and like new.... I spent 3 bills and walked out with it.... I mounted a 3x9 Leupold compact on it.... This little gun really surprised me.... It is as accurate as most bolt action hunting rifles and with 5 quick shots.... I hunt riverbottom timber..most shots within 200 yards.... It has accounted about 30 deer and hogs in the hundreds..and thats with cheap 150 grain Remington corelokt ammo....
I went into the local gun shop one day....There was this short slim lightweight Remington 760 pump carbine in 308.... It was an early one and like new.... I spent 3 bills and walked out with it.... I mounted a 3x9 Leupold compact on it.... This little gun really surprised me.... It is as accurate as most bolt action hunting rifles and with 5 quick shots.... I hunt riverbottom timber..most shots within 200 yards.... It has accounted about 30 deer and hogs in the hundreds..and thats with cheap 150 grain Remington corelokt ammo....
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Brotherbadger
New member
I actually own both of those!
It's odd, but I like my 572 fieldmaster. As for the bolt action shotgun.....well it was a hand me down. It's an odd duck, but a fun gun to bring out.
to get a free floated barrel on a rem pump series 760-7600 rifle you just buy it as its made that way. i think the pump rifles were popular with the left handers(i am one) and left hand bolts were hard to get pre-70,s and there were very few hi powered lever action then also with the advent of high powered levers and left hand bolts these rifles have cut into the pump rifles sales. i own and shoot pumps,left hand, semi, and right hand actioned rifles, but my favorite deer rifles are a rem 7600 pump carbine in 3006 and a ren 700sps left hand 7mm-08. eastbank.
Mike Irwin
Staff
High powered lever actions were available from the day Savage introduced the .250 and .300 back in the 1920s.
Starting in the 1950s the Savage 99 was in production for any number of high powered cartridges, including .250 Savage, .300 Savage, .243, .308, and others...
The Sako Finnwolf was introduced in 1965...
The Winchester Model 88 was in production from 1955 until 1973, and were still commonly available for a number of years after that.
The Browning BLR was introduced in the early 1960s.
And Winchester Model 95s were also still relatively cheap and available.
Starting in the 1950s the Savage 99 was in production for any number of high powered cartridges, including .250 Savage, .300 Savage, .243, .308, and others...
The Sako Finnwolf was introduced in 1965...
The Winchester Model 88 was in production from 1955 until 1973, and were still commonly available for a number of years after that.
The Browning BLR was introduced in the early 1960s.
And Winchester Model 95s were also still relatively cheap and available.
0nly the 95 win. was chambered in a long sized action, the 88 win as was the sav 99 and the finnwolf along with the browning levers were all short actions and i only put the .308 and the .358 in the large big game class at any long distance, the puny 3006 has killed every animal on earth and that would be my minimum. can you kill the realy big game with the rest,sure a .22 hornet will also. now you can get levers in mag calibers along with pumps and almost every rifle maker makes a left hand rifle. eastbank.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"0nly the 95 win. was chambered in a long sized action, the 88 win as was the sav 99 and the finnwolf along with the browning levers were all short actions and i only put the .308 and the .358 in the large big game class at any long distance, the puny 3006 has killed every animal on earth and that would be my minimum."
OK, you didn't define your criteria adequately in your first post.
You do realize that the .308 and the .30-06 have virtually identical ballistics, and the .308 was derived from the .30-06 to solve the issue of a half inch of useless brass and airspace?
Given how long it's been around and how far and wide it's traveled, I wouldn't sell the .300 Savage short on its tally of species, either...
OK, you didn't define your criteria adequately in your first post.
You do realize that the .308 and the .30-06 have virtually identical ballistics, and the .308 was derived from the .30-06 to solve the issue of a half inch of useless brass and airspace?
Given how long it's been around and how far and wide it's traveled, I wouldn't sell the .300 Savage short on its tally of species, either...
i have loaded and shot .308,s untill i locked up the bolts and also 3006,s. the best load in my the 3006 was 60.5 grs rl22 with the 165gr nosler bt and its going just south of 3000fps, a .308 will not do that and neither will the 300 savage. i am not knocking the 308(i load and shoot several) or the 300 sav. and no peing contest on my part.i was just pointing out a few reasons the pumps may be on the decline. the 760 rem pump in 3006 has been made since 1952, their were no comparable lever actions on the market at that time and only custom left hand rifles made in the U.S. them. i bought my first left hand bolt rifle in the early 70s, a savage 110L in 7mm mag. most all the short action rifles cramp the powder space of the case with long heavy bullets due to the short magazines and don,t reach there full potential. case in point the 350 rem mag the bullet was seated right into the powder space in the 600-660 series, but the rem 700 classic in that caliber shines. eastbank.
22-rimfire
New member
I also grew up hunting and shooting pump rifles and shotguns. PA due to its semi-auto rifle restriction for hunting has always been a haven for the Remington center fire pump action rifles. And yes, I agree that if you are used to shooting a pump action shotgun, having the 760/7600 (etc) is a natural in PA. In other states, the semi auto has won out and that is especially true of AR being so popular.
The Remington was never intended to be a target rifle; it is a hunting rifle through and through.
My first center fire rifle in PA was a bolt action. Dad had a 760.
The Remington was never intended to be a target rifle; it is a hunting rifle through and through.
My first center fire rifle in PA was a bolt action. Dad had a 760.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Remington kind of ruined the idea of owning one of their pumps. Too many problems with there semi's was the cause. Rails bolts chambers. Every time a short coming appeared to where a recall should be required on there semi's. Rem updated its design and changed (both) rifles model numbers and in some form or fashion fix the semi's problem. So most thought because the semi was problematic so was the pump. Poor pump was forced to suffered the indignity brought on by there semi.
If a customer was leery about buying a semi because of its (problematic) reputation over the years. Why would they buy a pump. Most turned to buying bolts at the behest of others and those so called well informed Sport Magazine Writers. Bolts are simple to operate cheap to build easy to re-design if a flaw does exist. Unlike a semi or pump in those regards. So if someone were to ask me which of the two to buy. I'd say ~~which ever your heart desires.
As for me personally which would I buy. ~~ hey I'm a Savage lever guy_
If a customer was leery about buying a semi because of its (problematic) reputation over the years. Why would they buy a pump. Most turned to buying bolts at the behest of others and those so called well informed Sport Magazine Writers. Bolts are simple to operate cheap to build easy to re-design if a flaw does exist. Unlike a semi or pump in those regards. So if someone were to ask me which of the two to buy. I'd say ~~which ever your heart desires.
As for me personally which would I buy. ~~ hey I'm a Savage lever guy_
Mike Irwin
Staff
"i have loaded and shot .308,s untill i locked up the bolts and also 3006,s. the best load in my the 3006 was 60.5 grs rl22 with the 165gr nosler bt and its going just south of 3000fps, a .308 will not do that and neither will the 300 savage."
No, a .308 or .300 Savage can't be uploaded to the same degree as a .30-06 because of that round's extra space, but if you really need to push something that hard, you might want to consider a booster charge of det cord.... er... a cartridge based on a larger case.
My salient point remains, however, that modern high-powered cartridges were available in slide and lever action rifles in the timeframe you're referencing.
That they're not the high-powered cartridges YOU want to see is... well, that's a personal problem...
No, a .308 or .300 Savage can't be uploaded to the same degree as a .30-06 because of that round's extra space, but if you really need to push something that hard, you might want to consider a booster charge of det cord.... er... a cartridge based on a larger case.
My salient point remains, however, that modern high-powered cartridges were available in slide and lever action rifles in the timeframe you're referencing.
That they're not the high-powered cartridges YOU want to see is... well, that's a personal problem...
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Mike Irwin
Staff
Personaly I've been looking for a Remington Model 25 or a Marlin 27-S in .32-20 to join up with my Colt & S&W revolvers in .32-20, but for some reason they've virtually dried up.
I can find ones in .25-20 all day long, but laying hands on a .32-20 is hard, and it's become EXPENSIVE.
I can find ones in .25-20 all day long, but laying hands on a .32-20 is hard, and it's become EXPENSIVE.
FairWarning
New member
I recall pumps being highly popular in the '80s. My cousin has used the same 7600 .30-06 for his entire life and swears by it. It's a great rifle.
Pumps absolutely have their place in the shotgun world, but at this point, for many new buyers, pump rifles are novelty items since autos are so reliable now. But that's fine, I am one of those people who like novelties and would have no problem with one. In the end, my novelty piece ended up being a Swiss K31 straight-pull.
Pumps absolutely have their place in the shotgun world, but at this point, for many new buyers, pump rifles are novelty items since autos are so reliable now. But that's fine, I am one of those people who like novelties and would have no problem with one. In the end, my novelty piece ended up being a Swiss K31 straight-pull.