Good topic LongShot. I myself enjoy shooting all calibers, and own most. Variety makes life interesting. Right? But I feel the 40 has the best "package" around. Why people bash this round is beyond me. Issues like recoil and accuracy are easily solved by trying different loads/guns for your needs. But then again, everyones entitled to an opinion. Without looking at all the LE & Gov. Agencies using this caliber, and the testing they've done, the 40 just plain works. And if you believe in all that #'s/energy, M&S stuff, etc., it just adds to the merits of this round. "IMO", I see why this caliber gained popularity. It's not only taking the majority of the handgun/ammo sales, but those #'s will probably grow.
Why the growing dislike of the .40?
- Thread starter long shot
- Start date
Bottom Line: LEO's ARE HAPPY WITH IT
Sites like this attract posters who like to split hairs about every handgun and cartridge out there.
LEO'S all over this great nation have adopted this cartridge and since then I have yet to hear of any substantial complaints about its performance. Many or most switched from their 9mm and got what they were looking for. If there were any real deficiencies about the .40 they would have switched back to the 9mm or would be going to the .45 or .357 en masse by now. Well? Why aren't they?
I agree its not the best caliber for range shooting but in real world COMBAT SHOOTING its kickin' @$# and taking names. Subjective impressions aren't very convincing compared to that.
Sites like this attract posters who like to split hairs about every handgun and cartridge out there.
LEO'S all over this great nation have adopted this cartridge and since then I have yet to hear of any substantial complaints about its performance. Many or most switched from their 9mm and got what they were looking for. If there were any real deficiencies about the .40 they would have switched back to the 9mm or would be going to the .45 or .357 en masse by now. Well? Why aren't they?
I agree its not the best caliber for range shooting but in real world COMBAT SHOOTING its kickin' @$# and taking names. Subjective impressions aren't very convincing compared to that.
Quantum Singularity
New member
LEO's like the .40?
I have to respectfully disagree with this generalization. In fact, many CHP officers I know hate both the S&W guns AND the .40 S&W cal chambering that they are required to carry. Yet, they have no choice--it is required that they use that combination. Many city employed Northern Kalifornia officers I know are not crazy about being required to carry the .40 either (they prefer the softer recoiling 9mm or the less snappy .45 ACP).
No doubt, the .40 is an EXCELLENT defensive caliber; but, it is not as popular among LEOs as made out to be (at least in my area). Remember, it is not the officers who select the duty guns and chamberings!
I have to respectfully disagree with this generalization. In fact, many CHP officers I know hate both the S&W guns AND the .40 S&W cal chambering that they are required to carry. Yet, they have no choice--it is required that they use that combination. Many city employed Northern Kalifornia officers I know are not crazy about being required to carry the .40 either (they prefer the softer recoiling 9mm or the less snappy .45 ACP).
No doubt, the .40 is an EXCELLENT defensive caliber; but, it is not as popular among LEOs as made out to be (at least in my area). Remember, it is not the officers who select the duty guns and chamberings!
Can't stand it anymore!
Got to get my .02 worth in on this one. I own a G22 & G27 and love them both. 1st - Why not a .45? Great round but really needs the longer barrel of a full size pistol to reach it's potential. IMHO this round loses too much velocity from the shorter barrels of guns geared toward ccw. Why not 9mm? I think the 9mm's niche is the smaller ccw pistols such as the kahr p9, in fact I want one. I could opt for the k40, but I think the 9mm makes more sense in this pistol especially in the lighter p9 version. Why did I choose the g27 over the g26? Same size package, interchangable mags with my g22, and I have no problem controlling the .40 in this gun. I can not understand why people complain about the recoil of the .40 and then load up their 9mm with +p+ ammo. As far as accuracy, I regularly eat up the bullseye with both my .40's. The shooter/gun combo is far more important than the caliber/shooter combo.Do you really think you're going to be punching those tight little 1" groups with someone shooting back at you? Most of us (I hope) have never been in a life or death gunfight & if it ever happens (hope not) have practiced and trained to be able to place hits centermass. Centermass does not require 1" groups if you could do it in the stress of a gunfight. I guess my point is match the caliber to the gun. For example, a full size 1911 in .40 makes no sense to me. Neither does a .380 size gun that I can get in 9mm. If you choose .45,.40,9mm, or .25 acp so be it. Just don't go telling the world that mine is better than yours. SSL JKC
Got to get my .02 worth in on this one. I own a G22 & G27 and love them both. 1st - Why not a .45? Great round but really needs the longer barrel of a full size pistol to reach it's potential. IMHO this round loses too much velocity from the shorter barrels of guns geared toward ccw. Why not 9mm? I think the 9mm's niche is the smaller ccw pistols such as the kahr p9, in fact I want one. I could opt for the k40, but I think the 9mm makes more sense in this pistol especially in the lighter p9 version. Why did I choose the g27 over the g26? Same size package, interchangable mags with my g22, and I have no problem controlling the .40 in this gun. I can not understand why people complain about the recoil of the .40 and then load up their 9mm with +p+ ammo. As far as accuracy, I regularly eat up the bullseye with both my .40's. The shooter/gun combo is far more important than the caliber/shooter combo.Do you really think you're going to be punching those tight little 1" groups with someone shooting back at you? Most of us (I hope) have never been in a life or death gunfight & if it ever happens (hope not) have practiced and trained to be able to place hits centermass. Centermass does not require 1" groups if you could do it in the stress of a gunfight. I guess my point is match the caliber to the gun. For example, a full size 1911 in .40 makes no sense to me. Neither does a .380 size gun that I can get in 9mm. If you choose .45,.40,9mm, or .25 acp so be it. Just don't go telling the world that mine is better than yours. SSL JKC
let's see, I have found a good load for my .40, I have shot thousands of rounds with my .40, I like the way my .40 performs for me, and since I am already very comfortable with it, then I suppose I should stick with the gun I personally like and trust and have experience with.
I really pity those morons out there who feel like they have to get the latest and greatest craze out there. Gun companies love you though, as well as ammo companies. My dad uses a 9mm. It is just what he knows and is comfy with. My dad in-law is comfy with his .38.
You get a gun, and you learn how to use it. You practice often, and then you want to switch guns for something more exotic? That logic beats me. I'll stick to my .40. I hope that everyone sticks to what they're used to over what the gun rags tell them is the latest and greatest. My .40 will make a lot of decent sized holes in a BG. A .45 will make less holes, but bigger ones. A 9mm will make smaller holes but even more than the previous two. It is all about making people leak if you ask me. I feel comfortable that my .40 will make a person leak just as successfully as some of you think you'll make a person leak with your .45. You know what? We're both right.
When we talk about sectional density and other academic subjects I get lost. The real question is: Do YOU trust your firearm? I trust mine.
I really pity those morons out there who feel like they have to get the latest and greatest craze out there. Gun companies love you though, as well as ammo companies. My dad uses a 9mm. It is just what he knows and is comfy with. My dad in-law is comfy with his .38.
You get a gun, and you learn how to use it. You practice often, and then you want to switch guns for something more exotic? That logic beats me. I'll stick to my .40. I hope that everyone sticks to what they're used to over what the gun rags tell them is the latest and greatest. My .40 will make a lot of decent sized holes in a BG. A .45 will make less holes, but bigger ones. A 9mm will make smaller holes but even more than the previous two. It is all about making people leak if you ask me. I feel comfortable that my .40 will make a person leak just as successfully as some of you think you'll make a person leak with your .45. You know what? We're both right.
When we talk about sectional density and other academic subjects I get lost. The real question is: Do YOU trust your firearm? I trust mine.
Quantum Singularity
New member
Bingo!
You hit the nail on the head. For those who are used to the .40, then it is the perfect gun for you. For those use to 9mm or .45, then that is the perfect gun for you. USE WHAT YOU LIKE BEST. Personally, I like the .45 the best (9mm a close second) but I totally respect the opinions of those who prefer .40.
P.S. I honestly feel for the LEOs who dislike the gun they are issued. The CHP officers I talk to in particular do NOT like the S&W semi-auto that is standard issue. IMO, it is the pits to be forced to use a gun you don't trust or like.
You hit the nail on the head. For those who are used to the .40, then it is the perfect gun for you. For those use to 9mm or .45, then that is the perfect gun for you. USE WHAT YOU LIKE BEST. Personally, I like the .45 the best (9mm a close second) but I totally respect the opinions of those who prefer .40.
P.S. I honestly feel for the LEOs who dislike the gun they are issued. The CHP officers I talk to in particular do NOT like the S&W semi-auto that is standard issue. IMO, it is the pits to be forced to use a gun you don't trust or like.
A couple of you have mentioned target accuracy, or lack thereof...
I would think with the strong popularity of the 40 with the LE community across the country that a lot of development work will be done on the projos, much like our *beloved* gomit lavished on the 45 Auto, 30'06, 7.62, and 5.56 match grade ammo for the service weapons.
At that point, any accuracy concerns would surely be answered.
I reserve the right to be inconsistent and self contradictory; it's a guy thing!
I would think with the strong popularity of the 40 with the LE community across the country that a lot of development work will be done on the projos, much like our *beloved* gomit lavished on the 45 Auto, 30'06, 7.62, and 5.56 match grade ammo for the service weapons.
At that point, any accuracy concerns would surely be answered.
I reserve the right to be inconsistent and self contradictory; it's a guy thing!
It is sad that a lot of LEA's don't seem to exercise good judgement when providing issue weapons. A friend of mine with TPWD just got a new S&W pistol shortly after he had finally become accustomed to the first (the first a sigma, the second a P99). I'll never understand why they feel the need to switch out pistols every few years. Those who were issued pistol ____, should keep that gun until they retire (and beyond if you ask me). Only if they find that the pistol is unsafe/unreliable should they force a change in sidearms.
Really advanced LEA's that worry about their cops more than their "public image" would allow the cop to pick the pistol of his choosing. He would be given a check for $---, and would be allowed a broad variety of choices from which to choose. Yearly he would recieve a gift certificate to purchase ammo for the pistol of his choice. I personally love seeing a cop who still carries a revolver, or an old 1911. He probably knows how to use it well. It is indeed a sorry state of affairs when cops don't trust their sidearms. .40 is good for me (because I reload that caliber and get tons of free brass from cop friends). If a cop wants a 1911A1, then I could hardly discourage him from a pistol with such a long and splendid history. It is a matter of trust.
Really advanced LEA's that worry about their cops more than their "public image" would allow the cop to pick the pistol of his choosing. He would be given a check for $---, and would be allowed a broad variety of choices from which to choose. Yearly he would recieve a gift certificate to purchase ammo for the pistol of his choice. I personally love seeing a cop who still carries a revolver, or an old 1911. He probably knows how to use it well. It is indeed a sorry state of affairs when cops don't trust their sidearms. .40 is good for me (because I reload that caliber and get tons of free brass from cop friends). If a cop wants a 1911A1, then I could hardly discourage him from a pistol with such a long and splendid history. It is a matter of trust.
DAL,
Do you really regard this discussion as "Not Getting Along". Boy, we sure do have different ideas of what "Not Getting Along" is.
I have a Kahr .40 S&W. I don't know now why I bought it. The cartridges which are what account for the majority of the weight in a loaded pistol are about as heavy as my .45 ACPs.
For me, it isn't that anything is "Wrong" with the .40 S & W it's that with several 9MM parabellums and several .45 ACPs who needs a .40 S& W? What does it offer that I don't already have?
PigPen
Do you really regard this discussion as "Not Getting Along". Boy, we sure do have different ideas of what "Not Getting Along" is.
I have a Kahr .40 S&W. I don't know now why I bought it. The cartridges which are what account for the majority of the weight in a loaded pistol are about as heavy as my .45 ACPs.
For me, it isn't that anything is "Wrong" with the .40 S & W it's that with several 9MM parabellums and several .45 ACPs who needs a .40 S& W? What does it offer that I don't already have?
PigPen
The concept behind the .40 S&W is that you can get a major caliber round into a 9mm platform. Well sports fans the concept works. I feel very secure with my Glock 22 with 15 in the mag and 1 in the tube. But I still prefer the .45acp and carry my Glock 21 the majority of the time as a LEO.
7th
7th