Why the growing dislike of the .40?

Works for me

I like the .40 It's recoil isn't harsh. If you want harsh try some full power 357 Magnum loads out of a 2 inch barrel. That's harsh.

I see a couple of web myths in this thread. S&W doesn't make any money from the sale of .40 ammo. They don't have a patent on the round. Federal designed the cartridge along and S&W worked on the pistols. So what? Back then S&W was a respectable company. Now they've gone bad and are paying for it. ;)

The .40 isn't an inherently inaccurate round. Bench rest two similar models like a Glock 19 to a Glock 23 and there's hardly any difference in accuracy.

The .40 is here to stay, if anything its popularity is growing world wide. It's more and more common in Latin American countries. I've heard, but don't have solid evidence, that's it's also making headway in places like South Africa.
 
Reason to not like the .40? S&W makes a few cent$ every time you pull the trigger.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to a royalty, they don't get a penny from the round... they do get their name mentioned, however.


I like the .40, I just like the .45 more for full sized guns. Not because of this theory or that ballistics test, just because it feels right and have confidence in it, just as I do the .40 and 9mm.
 
The .40 can be loaded to be pretty much as accurate as other good duty calibers. I just like shooting the 357 SIG because the bullets are a heck of a lot cheaper and the 124 grain bullet has a good velocity range of 1100 fps to 1450 fps from a 4" barrel.
 
Quantum,

I agree that the .40 may not be the best choice for competition, & I usually choose a 9mm in small sub-compact carry guns such as a G-26 or Kahr P9/ MK9.

I do usually prefer the .40 to the 9 in a mid to fullsize auto, & love the .45, especially from 4.5 - 5 in. bbl's, where it reaches it's full potential.

As far as the range goes, I enjoy shooting my G26, G23, & G21. As I said, I usually shoot 180gr loads in .40, & to me these loads do not have excessive recoil or flip, to me they exhibit more of a .45 like recoil, being less snappy w/ more of a push. Again, I think it goes back to finding the right gun/caliber/load combination.

I just think the .40 has alot to offer, it might not be the best choice to fill every niche, nor will it be for everyone, but it definitely has it's advatages.

Best, long shot!
 
Another ditto.
Tried it for years, owned different guns in .40S&W.
Tried hard to like it.
But, in its current state of development, it's not a particularly accurate or precise round, compared to the best 9mm and .45ACP loadings. For me, this is the truly damning issue.
Secondarily, many guns have been chambered for the .40S&W by simply "up-tooling" their 9mm editions. This has proven, over time, to be a mistake.
I believe the .40S&W is here to stay, and is doubtless capable of further development into a more accurate and precise round, but for me, it feels no niche not already occupied by the 9mm and .45ACP. Best.
 
While I really don't hate the .40 it certainly isn't on my list of favorites. I have to laugh about the myth of the kabooming .40s. I bought a new Glock model 24 along with a box of factory ammo. About half way through the first magazine kaboom. It didn't do any damage to my hand or the gun other than to blow the magazine out the bottom. Although I own three .40 Glocks as well as several other brands of .40s. They seem to spend a lot of time in the safe while the .45s and 9mms get to go out and play.
 
I've never understood the big deal with "accuracy" in a handgun. In combat or just recreational situations any quality handgun in any caliber with good ammo is more accurate than what shooter is capable of. The inherent inaccuracy of the .40 S&W is a moot point.

IMHO the .40 S&W is an excellent round. The blowing up problem associated with it are due to shooting them in Glocks which have loose and unsupported chambers. People reloading using a fast powder and a heavy bullet with a short OAL will also get an occasional case head seperation. Look at a fired case from a Glock. You can see the bulge near the rim. In fact, competiton shooters getting some of this crap Glock brass mixed in with their good brass for reloading have a heII of a time unless they roll-size it or use a special sizing die that goes deep enough to take the bulge out. Otherwise, this stuff will jam up a match grade barrel every time.

If you want something that will blow up try the 10mm which uses a large primer with the same diameter case as the .40. There's been numerous injuries associated with a round going off clearing the handgun because the larger primer hit the ejector during the extraction of the live round.

A 357 Sig is a necked down .40 S&W. It's big with LEO's for some reason. My guess is they don't have to buy or reload the stuff. It's expensive, and it's a bltch to reload a bottleneck cartridge for a handgun. However, I have used the brass to reload for my 40 cal. The sizing die takes the bottleneck out and I end up with a .40 S&W cartridge with a 357 Sig headstamp.
 
yes, Yes, YES!!!!!

"I've never understood the big deal with 'accuracy' in a
handgun. In combat or just recreational situations any
quality handgun in any caliber with good ammo is more
accurate than what shooter is capable of. The inherent
inaccuracy of the .40 S&W is a moot point."

Thank you! I wish I could have hit the point as accurately and succinctly as you did. It took a while for me to figure out that handguns ain't rifles and that I shouldn't look for anywhere near the same degree of accuracy in them. As long as I can put my shots in a 4-inch circle offhand with a handgun at 10 yards, I'm content. Wasn't it Clint Smith who said something like, "A pistol is what you use to shoot your way back to your rifle."? Truer words were never spoken.

How much more innaccurate than the much-maligned 9mm or the vaunted .45 can the .40 be? One inch at 25 yards? Two or three inches at 25 yards? And what is a civilian doing using a handgun for defensive purposes at that distance? Sometimes I wonder if people aren't just looking for things to kvetch about.
DAL
 
Never fired a .40 but...

seems to me the only reason I wouldn't want one is because if I was going to buy something smaller than .45, I'd want high capacity. Hi-capacity in the post-ban era means 9x19mm. It seems impossible to find preban high cap .40 mags, but preban mags, especially aftermarket ones, (they may not be as good but what the heck) for 9x19mm pistols are still easy to find, especially if you buy a very common pistol like a Beretta, Glock, or a Hi-Power.

Some .40 pistols don't have REALY high capacity, though. The Beretta 96 with LEO mags only holds 11 rounds. Most other .40 guns hold 12. The Glock 22, however, holds 15.
 
.40S&W caliber-

was inaccurate with snappy recoil out of my SigArms P229 and
Glock 23, using factory test loads.:( These test loads were
from a batch of Remington 180 grain Golden Saber's and 165
grain Cor-Bon's.:) Both loads consistently shot low and to
the left at about 7 o'clock; out of BOTH firearms.:p The
same loads proved highly accurate, striking "dead center" at
POA; out of my Glock 27.:D Answer to the problem, was to get
rid of the P229 and the G-23; now I'm a happy owner of a
Glock 27, that I use as my primary CCW.:eek::rolleyes:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
NAD and DAL,

If you don't want match accuracy in your carry pistol then that's fine. Personally, I prefer shooting the most accurate pistol possible because it is enjoyable to see good results down range and it builds confidence in your equipment. Any pistol should be capable of 4" groups at 10 yards. Most good pistols will do 4" at 25 meters. A match grade pistol will do 1-2" at 25 meters and are often engineered to do those groups out to 50 meters. It is pure joy to shoot a pistol this accurate. Just because most people can't shoot up to the accuracy of their pistol doesn't mean others aren't limited by it. Frankly, I can easily detect when a pistol is holding me back.

No. Most gunfights don't happen at longer ranges, however, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I never want to be found in a situation where I couldn't take a precision shot to save my life or a loved one's life because my pistol (or myself) was not capable of the accuracy. Remember, although you may be lucky to have a broad, uncovered shot against a BG these folk (as do I) tend to hide behind cover and present the smallest target as possible when given a chance. That's when I pull out my SIG and hope I'm better than him. Plus, although I agree with Clint Smith's and Jeff Cooper's sentiments about going to a gunfight with a rifle, unfortunately I do not always have one handy, (that's the beauty of a handgun) and if I can't have a rifle which is superior in every respect except concealibility, I just assume have the most accurate pistol humanly possible.

This is why I do not carry a .40

SS
 
Very well said SigmundSauer. :)

I agree with you basically word for word. I also want the most accurate handgun as possible. And yes, I usually can tell the difference between an accurate handgun and an inaccurate handgun.
 
SigmundSauer - If you are shooting 1-2 inch groups offhand at 50 yards with a handgun you have excellent trigger control. In fact, it puts you in the gifted range as a shooter. I guess by your posting, you didn't get this level of accuracy with your 40 caliber, but you were able to acheive it with your SIG in some other caliber?

Match accuracy? What the heII is that? It's a marketing gimick. If a SIG is your standard for a "match accurate" handgun, then my $2500 SVI and STI pistols with the Schuemann "Ultimatch" barrels that I use in IPSC Limited class competition must be "super duper match accurate" capable of 1 inch or less groups at 50 yards. Unfortunately, though, they are chambered for that inherently inaccurate 40 S&W cartridge and will be incapable of matching the accuracy of my SIG 220. :)
 
9mm, .357 SIG

I carry 9mm, don't think I'm undergunned, and am acurate with it. Plus cost of ammo is cheap.

I have a SIGPro .357 that I love shooting, but I think it's shooting a high quality handgun, as opposed to the used Taraus, and S&W I have.

Would like to try the .40 and .45, also 44mag. I figure it never hurts to put as big a hole in as possible.
 
So...is there an effective compromise caliber between the 9mm Para and the .45ACP? Does there NEED to be?
Is it the .40S&W..? The .357sig?
 
I too find in amazing how I hear folks always talking about the recoil of the .40. Folks complaining about it, and then talking about there 1911 .45's is odd. It isn't the best round I have fired, but it is reliable, and it will, like many others rounds, get the job done. Each caliber has their own pro and cons. I agree that the market is only going to make items that sell. If they sell, that obviously means they work, and they just might be effective, in some fashion or another. I think we all should realize that, and quit bashing the .40. If for some peculiar reason, someone cannot handle the "muzzle flip" a .40 creates, then don't use it.

Semper Fi-
JJC
 
40 S&W is a pretty good round...

S&W saw a marketing opportunity when the girly FBI trainees and some limp agents couldn't handle the bodacious 10mm. The genius was shortening it so it would fit in a pocket pistol chambered for the problematic 9.

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other if you like the 40 or not, but like it or not, it's here to stay. According to the ammo manufacturers, it is about 2nd or 3rd out of the top ten sellers in handgun ammo. You can search for the thread on TFL that bears this out.

As to the weird or snappy recoil? WTF, over? I guess some people need a Captain Kirk phaser to be happy. ;)
 
A few years ago the I&NS conducted their own ammo tests with different criterea from the FBI tests. They settled on the 155gr .40. That is all that I have shot for the last 3 yrs (because it's free). I have had no problems with it's accuracy and I have seen some agents literaly drive tacks with it. In real life situations concerning agents from my station over the last 3 yrs the .40 has came out on top 3 out of 3 times.
 
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