littlebikerider
New member
Why so many copies?
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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Why so many 1911 copy cats?
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
The design works and people like it. There's a 1911 for every pocketbook. If you want a high end custom you can have it. If you want a low end GI model you can have it. If you want a low end custom that will run just as good if not better than the big boys you can have that too, they're just not as pretty.
The simple answer is... Technology.
Namely, CNC/MIM.
Bought a NIB American-made all-steel Springfield "MIL-SPEC," with the stainless match-grade Bbl and bushing, lowered/flared port, and walnut grips...
$500.
Tight as a Mermaid's Petunia, 100% reliable, and shoots under a coin.
What used to take a craftsman weeks to produce? CNC/MIM can now manufacture, and Chimpanzees assemble, in hours.
Red
Namely, CNC/MIM.
Bought a NIB American-made all-steel Springfield "MIL-SPEC," with the stainless match-grade Bbl and bushing, lowered/flared port, and walnut grips...
$500.
Tight as a Mermaid's Petunia, 100% reliable, and shoots under a coin.
What used to take a craftsman weeks to produce? CNC/MIM can now manufacture, and Chimpanzees assemble, in hours.
Red
the possum
New member
C'mon, guys. I can't be the only one here who's been a gun enthusiast for more than 14 years.
Why is the 1911 still so popular? Actually, I remember it fading... Until the 1994 assault weapons ban. We spent a whole decade when nobody could buy a new magazine/gun that held over 10 rounds. And a lot of folks figured if they were limited to 10 rounds anyway, they'd rather those rounds to be .45 instead of 9mm. That's when I remember the big resurgence in the 1911's popularity.
Why is the 1911 still so popular? Actually, I remember it fading... Until the 1994 assault weapons ban. We spent a whole decade when nobody could buy a new magazine/gun that held over 10 rounds. And a lot of folks figured if they were limited to 10 rounds anyway, they'd rather those rounds to be .45 instead of 9mm. That's when I remember the big resurgence in the 1911's popularity.
larryf1952
New member
I am a 1911 guy. I have 7 of 'em. By reading this forum and several others, one would tend to draw the conclusion that they are among the most popular of all handguns. Everyone and their brother makes at least one. I'm sure that they're a big seller. So, where are they?
I shoot weekly at a really nice indoor range. Tuesday is senior and military day. Half price for vets and old guys. I don't miss many Tuesdays.
When I go to the range, I will often take a 1911. I love shooting them, and I love the way that they feel in the hand. But, I RARELY see another one. Once in a blue moon, I'll see a fellow old timer with a 1911. But, in the past 3 years, I could probably count all of those times on one hand and have a couple of fingers left over. Most of the time, they're shooting .22's, .380's or .38 revolvers. Now and then, I'll see someone with a GP100 or a Smith .357.
The younger guys all seem to have Glocks, Sigs, M&P's or some other flavor of striker fired gun. 9mm's rule the roost. I'd think that if 1911's were so plentiful, I'd see a lot more of them on the range, especially from the older guys. I sure do like to shoot mine, so this question has always perplexed me a bit.
I shoot weekly at a really nice indoor range. Tuesday is senior and military day. Half price for vets and old guys. I don't miss many Tuesdays.
When I go to the range, I will often take a 1911. I love shooting them, and I love the way that they feel in the hand. But, I RARELY see another one. Once in a blue moon, I'll see a fellow old timer with a 1911. But, in the past 3 years, I could probably count all of those times on one hand and have a couple of fingers left over. Most of the time, they're shooting .22's, .380's or .38 revolvers. Now and then, I'll see someone with a GP100 or a Smith .357.
The younger guys all seem to have Glocks, Sigs, M&P's or some other flavor of striker fired gun. 9mm's rule the roost. I'd think that if 1911's were so plentiful, I'd see a lot more of them on the range, especially from the older guys. I sure do like to shoot mine, so this question has always perplexed me a bit.
Larry,
I completely understand about the lack of 1911s on the range. I contribute to that as well.
the 1911 and BHP are my two most favorite centerfire auto platforms.
I have a few versions of each.
Yet, I have enough other stuff that I rotate through them, and get either a 1911 or BHP out to shoot about once out of every 5 or 10 trips.
I think the younger people are more influenced by the pop culture references of the past 30 years, where Glocks, Sigs, S&W M&P, etc rule- and by magazine capacity concerns.
They have been taught the values of shot volume instead of having the values of shot placement extolled.
The 1911 comes from an era of 5 round magazines in rifles, with shot placement out to 500 yards still a consideration.
We are now in an era where suppressive fire doctrines are more common in the military, where rifles have 20-30 rounds, and volume of lead downrange negates the '1 shot, 1 kill' philosophy of a hunter-influenced society.
I will say that a Glock tends to work better out of the box than many similarly priced new 1911s.
1911s take more time to disassemble, and have more 'loose parts', than a Glock.
Yet, the 1911 just feels great in my hand.
So, I have some and shoot them- but not every trip.
Maybe it is that forums like this aren't 'cutting edge' internet social media any more, and the younger people are more likely to InstaGram it, or snapchat about it.
I really don't know.
But, I see 1911s about as often as .357 magnum revolvers- so we are in good company!
I completely understand about the lack of 1911s on the range. I contribute to that as well.
the 1911 and BHP are my two most favorite centerfire auto platforms.
I have a few versions of each.
Yet, I have enough other stuff that I rotate through them, and get either a 1911 or BHP out to shoot about once out of every 5 or 10 trips.
I think the younger people are more influenced by the pop culture references of the past 30 years, where Glocks, Sigs, S&W M&P, etc rule- and by magazine capacity concerns.
They have been taught the values of shot volume instead of having the values of shot placement extolled.
The 1911 comes from an era of 5 round magazines in rifles, with shot placement out to 500 yards still a consideration.
We are now in an era where suppressive fire doctrines are more common in the military, where rifles have 20-30 rounds, and volume of lead downrange negates the '1 shot, 1 kill' philosophy of a hunter-influenced society.
I will say that a Glock tends to work better out of the box than many similarly priced new 1911s.
1911s take more time to disassemble, and have more 'loose parts', than a Glock.
Yet, the 1911 just feels great in my hand.
So, I have some and shoot them- but not every trip.
Maybe it is that forums like this aren't 'cutting edge' internet social media any more, and the younger people are more likely to InstaGram it, or snapchat about it.
I really don't know.
But, I see 1911s about as often as .357 magnum revolvers- so we are in good company!
I have three 1911's. My first was a Colt Series '80' with a 70's style collet bushing. I guess that's a rare combination - okay. I guess.
Mine broke. I was running hot ammo with a tired recoil spring. Lesson learned and have never broke one since. Fast forward 34 years and about 30,000 rounds, that Colt 1911 still runs like a champ. And tac-driver accurate.
I have since bought a Kimber and Springfield. Both are excellent guns. The Kimber in particular gets a workover. I don't pamper it.
I did my digress first. Here's my actual answer to the OP's question:
Speaking for myself:
No semi-auto - or any handgun, actually - fits better in my hand. Every one I have ever held in either hand, feels completely natural and seems like it's just asking to be put to work. My hands are small and the short Combat style trigger is a must (my Kimber immediately got that conversion). Pure shooting pleasure.
The other side is that I handload my own ammo. 45 ACP is the easiest - dare I say the funnest - semi-auto handgun cartridge to load. So there's that too.
1911's rock. Love 'em!
Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing
Mine broke. I was running hot ammo with a tired recoil spring. Lesson learned and have never broke one since. Fast forward 34 years and about 30,000 rounds, that Colt 1911 still runs like a champ. And tac-driver accurate.
I have since bought a Kimber and Springfield. Both are excellent guns. The Kimber in particular gets a workover. I don't pamper it.
I did my digress first. Here's my actual answer to the OP's question:
Speaking for myself:
No semi-auto - or any handgun, actually - fits better in my hand. Every one I have ever held in either hand, feels completely natural and seems like it's just asking to be put to work. My hands are small and the short Combat style trigger is a must (my Kimber immediately got that conversion). Pure shooting pleasure.
The other side is that I handload my own ammo. 45 ACP is the easiest - dare I say the funnest - semi-auto handgun cartridge to load. So there's that too.
1911's rock. Love 'em!
1911's are classic handguns and they are very pleasing to the eyes. There are still people out there who believe that plastic does not belong on a gun and prefers old wood and steel. Of course, there are 1911's with plastic grips too but overall, it does not subtract from the original design.
They are also relatively simple and rugged enough to withstand battlefield conditions and got a fairly long track record to prove it. Some folks like me prefer external hammers on a handgun because I was raised on revolvers.
That said, I absolutely enjoy shooting and carrying my Kahr. It is a very close repro of the original World War II US GI 1911 handgun with a few minute changes.
They are also relatively simple and rugged enough to withstand battlefield conditions and got a fairly long track record to prove it. Some folks like me prefer external hammers on a handgun because I was raised on revolvers.
That said, I absolutely enjoy shooting and carrying my Kahr. It is a very close repro of the original World War II US GI 1911 handgun with a few minute changes.
Though the patent question has been well answered I think, I would add that I'm not sure Colt ever actually held the patents. They were filed in JMB's (God rest his gifted soul) name. It is quite likely JMB had a deal with Colt where they had rights to said patent and possibly royalties on licensed copies (though JMB may have retained those, we may never know), most assuredly after the design was adopted by the military and he was paid a sizeable chunk of money. At any rate, The Springfield Armory (back when it was the government arms manufacturer, not a private company) made a fair number of 1911s early on before the patent expired. Because of that, we know that there was some form of contract for authorized production of the design outside of a Colt factory. It's actually an interesting subject, and I'm glad it was asked because I've actually kicked around and done a bit of web research on the matter.
As to why it is popular? Nick nailed it. It's not great for CC, and some have issue with cocked and locked as a duty pistol (I personally don't understand this, but I digress). What it is, however, is a wonderfully ergonomic and accurate pistol with a trigger that is too easy to make into the best trigger in existence (assuming you have a 70 series). My shot timer tells me my 1911 is the fastest pistol I shoot. My groups tell me that I shoot it the most accurately. Though I prefer my plastic fantastic P07 for duty carry, or a Kahr for very well concealed carry, that 1911 just calls to me when I put it in my hand.
As to why it is popular? Nick nailed it. It's not great for CC, and some have issue with cocked and locked as a duty pistol (I personally don't understand this, but I digress). What it is, however, is a wonderfully ergonomic and accurate pistol with a trigger that is too easy to make into the best trigger in existence (assuming you have a 70 series). My shot timer tells me my 1911 is the fastest pistol I shoot. My groups tell me that I shoot it the most accurately. Though I prefer my plastic fantastic P07 for duty carry, or a Kahr for very well concealed carry, that 1911 just calls to me when I put it in my hand.
HisSoldier
New member
It's the old explanation, Supply and Demand. If every hole has been plugged no water gets through, and if every desire has been fulfilled there will be no mournful sighs.
Not every one has enough 1911's and no ten makers could possibly satisfy the demand, plus, if you had every makers issue and suddenly a pistol maker who never made a 1911 clone pops up suddenly you Don't have one of every brand.
Like a steam boiler without a safety valve or a diesel that runs away, if my wife would let me I'd be one of those guys, alas I only have a few.
Not every one has enough 1911's and no ten makers could possibly satisfy the demand, plus, if you had every makers issue and suddenly a pistol maker who never made a 1911 clone pops up suddenly you Don't have one of every brand.
Like a steam boiler without a safety valve or a diesel that runs away, if my wife would let me I'd be one of those guys, alas I only have a few.
It surprises me that so many manufacturers can survive with the same product.. It also surprises me that a 100 year old design that won two world wars needs improved upon. It also surprises me that people will take a perfectly functioning pistol and modify it to where it is less reliable.
I can see that it needs better sights,a better trigger,and mechanical tolerances tightened up to make it more accurate. The 1911 has been used in NRA bullseye for 100 years. Still 98% of the people shooting bullseye use the 1911 and there appears to be no threat to its use.
The run and gun games require a high capacity pistol with little recoil for quick follow up shots. The 1911 is at a disadvantage in those games.
I can see that it needs better sights,a better trigger,and mechanical tolerances tightened up to make it more accurate. The 1911 has been used in NRA bullseye for 100 years. Still 98% of the people shooting bullseye use the 1911 and there appears to be no threat to its use.
The run and gun games require a high capacity pistol with little recoil for quick follow up shots. The 1911 is at a disadvantage in those games.
Only a couple of divisions in USPSA competition require high-capacity guns, and 1911s are still more than competitive when capacity isn't required or allowed.
Even then, a lot of the high-caps are "2011" derivatives of the 1911.
I've shot USPSA and IDPA for twenty years, and 99% of the rounds sent downrange were through various 1911s.
Even then, a lot of the high-caps are "2011" derivatives of the 1911.
I've shot USPSA and IDPA for twenty years, and 99% of the rounds sent downrange were through various 1911s.