Why so many 1911 copy cats?

Bill:
The patent covers features of the gun, not the gun itself.

"Colt is also a UAW shop paying UAW scale wages so what really drove the price of a Colt 1911 made in Hartford Conn? Did Colt price them out of reach or did cheap non union labor outside the US hurt Colt?"

Or, did UAW union labor rates and practices hurt Colt?? Those rates sure hurt the auto manufacturers.
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I agree as to what the patent is all about, regardless the patent is long dead on the 1911 features.

Oh yeah, the GM Lordstown Plant is a short drive from me and they are talking shutting it down. The Ford plant up the road shut down some years ago. The entry rate for a sweeper at the GM Plant is $30 hr.

The problem being is that Colt can't manufacture a 1911 gun as inexpensive as RIA or Taurus can, just using the two posted examples. Now on the bright side there seems to be no shortage of 1911 guns in the offering. Everything from inexpensive to you can't believe it cost that much.

I won't knock the inexpensive versions anymore than I would call someone a snob for buying a high end Colt or Dan Wesson or even above. I figure you buy what you can afford, be happy, enjoy it and call it a day. :)

Ron
 
I don't consider Colts to be at all overpriced. With some models priced at under $1,000 that nonetheless give you forged frames and forged slides, and fewer MIM small parts than any other 1911 aside from the much more expensive custom and semi-custom makers, I consider Colts to be bargains. Sure, you can find new 1911s that sell for less, and many of them shoot okay. But ... most of them have cast frames, many of them have cast slides, and they all make generous use of MIM small parts.

Yes, I am familiar with the arguments for and against MIM parts, and I own guns that have MIM parts in them. They work, But I have also had MIM parts fail in rather strage ways. I've never seen or heard of a Colt thumb safety have the shaft snap off; it has happened to me with a MIM safety.
 
I'd say it's because, the design is easy to replicate to make for a reliable handgun... I mean my father has a Taurus 1911, that he's had since 2000, and that thing is blue steel and rusts and needs to be cleaned often, and looks like hell, yet it's never had a malfunction... i think it was the summer of 2016 , we went out shooting one day and he pulled it out and it had rust everywhere, so bad that the slide release didnt move lol... luckly the safety could move... put i sprayed some quick clean lube on it and after a mag stuff started to loosen up lol...... but like the AR's and AK's of the world, they are pretty easy platforms to copy and make reliable for people
 
So,how did we go from an M1911 question to an anti union tirade?
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I wouldn't say an anti-union tirade but the idea is that shooters, as mentioned, can buy a nice 1911 gun from manufacturers outside the US in non-union shops. Post #17 mentions:
"there are so many other companies making them because Colt priced them out of reach of the working man. the design is favored by a lot of people both professional and layman, but not everyone can afford the $1,000 price tag on a Colt. If Colt made them for ~$500 for a basic they'd put other companies on the sideline, because who'd buy a Taurus or RIA 1911 when you could have a Colt for the same price".
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Colt makes guns in Hartford Conn in a union shop (UAW hop) and that contributes to the product cost out the door. The other guys have the advantage of inexpensive non-union labor.

Ron
 
One simple reason.....They Sell !

A buddy who owned a gun shop for many years told me he can sell every 1911 he can get his hands on , regardless of maker ! They all will be purchased .

He sold me a Star Model PS in 45 acp which was the best 1911 type pistol I ever owned ! Not having that pesky grip safety was sweet .
Gary
 
I don't consider Colts to be at all overpriced. With some models priced at under $1,000 that nonetheless give you forged frames and forged slides, and fewer MIM small parts than any other 1911 aside from the much more expensive custom and semi-custom makers, I consider Colts to be bargains. Sure, you can find new 1911s that sell for less, and many of them shoot okay. But ... most of them have cast frames, many of them have cast slides, and they all make generous use of MIM small parts.

Yes, I am familiar with the arguments for and against MIM parts, and I own guns that have MIM parts in them. They work, But I have also had MIM parts fail in rather strage ways. I've never seen or heard of a Colt thumb safety have the shaft snap off; it has happened to me with a MIM safety.
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Thank you Aguila Blanca for your rather well thought out answer for why are Colts so expensive.

My goodness...just because you can’t make a decent 1911 for under $650 is no reason to make a crappy one for that under $650!

Colt makes the best under $1000 1911. I wish Springfield were good enough. They are almost good enough, but not quite. RIA has a noteworthy 1911 for under $1000, but not good enough.

For those of you complaining about price....yes, $600 Glocks, $400 XD’s, and $400 M&P’s work.
 
While the original questions have been answered, new questions have begun to take over.... Which could lead to a closure of this thread... I also have another thought brought on by the previous digressions, but perhaps should just start another thread.
 
Why so many 1911 copy cats?

Yeah, I do believe asked and answered.

Pathfinder45:
While the original questions have been answered, new questions have begun to take over.... Which could lead to a closure of this thread... I also have another thought brought on by the previous digressions, but perhaps should just start another thread.
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That's how I would go about it, just start another thread. :)

Ron
 
The same can be said of the small frame Glocks. Lots of clones these days, too.

Like the 1911, the design works and aftermarket parts are plentiful. People can customize it to their heart's content.
 
The design is over 100 years old and still beats out newer designs.

Same reason lots of different folks sell cars with 4 wheels, bicycles with 2, washing machines, eye glasses, toilets. Old ideas that are worthwhile and no longer subject to a patent are often copied.
 
That's the part of the "1911" market that amazes me; twenty makers all doing essentially the same thing, taking a share of the same pie rather than doing something different and dominating.
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Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing or the Series 80 Swartz safety, and rejected the Double Eagle outright.

The market's idea of "1911" isn't all that flexible, apparently. There are plenty of not-1911 guns out there if you don't want a 1911.
 
twenty makers all doing essentially the same thing, taking a share of the same pie rather than doing something different and dominating.
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Let's be realistic, who out there is dominating at anything? Even non-1911s are Browning tilting barrel designs.
 
Customers weren't greatly impressed with the Series 70 collet bushing or the Series 80 Swartz safety, and rejected the Double Eagle outright.
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In my Colt Series 70 guns I have yet to break a collet bushing. While I have seen plenty of broken ones. What I have done is on several I shoot regularly I replaced the collet bushings with fitted bushings. I saved the collet bushings by gun so if I ever sell them they sell with the original collet bushings. A new bushing runs about $25 for a good one like an Ed Brown.

The Double Eagle guns just never took off, I never owned one. The so called New Colt Series 70 guns lack the collet bushing, go figure huh? :)

I have also seen some really sharp 1911 smiths take a fine stone and some polishing compound and convert some of the RIA guns and even those Chinese NORINCO into remarkably good shooters just cleaning up the parts, especially the trigger parts. While they say you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear I have seen some damn fine guns produced from those less expensive versions with some time, patience and applied skill.

On the Colt Series 80 guns from about 1983 on Colt used a firing pin block and in the design of Colt it was the trigger mechanism which removed the block, some complained this increased trigger pull but again, any real good competent 1911 smith can get the trigger pull just fine including dropping the block. Some manufacturers used the grip safety rather than the trigger to drop the block. When it’s the grip safety it is often called a Swartz Safety. Smith & Wesson as well as Kimber both use this Swartz Safety while Para Ordnance uses the Colt series 80 system with the trigger releasing the firing pin block. Colt did use a Swartz Safety in the 80’s but quickly changed away from it making it difficult to find Colts equipped with the Swartz Safety as few were made.

Ron
 
Slight correction. The Swartz firing pin safety was a Colt innovation, but it dated to before WW2. It was dropped during the war, and Colt never brought it back. It's the current "Series 80" firing pin system that Colt introduced in the 1980s -- hence the name.
 
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