Why so little love for .41 Mag??
- Thread starter Elliottsdad
- Start date
That's correct. IMO, the fact that it ended up being a .44Mag -P instead of a true half-step between the .357 and 44 is part of the reason it never caught on. There might have been a real market for a middle-ground cartridge, but there wasn't any call for a cartridge that was essentially a light version of the .44Mag.
Shot my 41 Special yesterday along side a 357 and 44 magnum with more or less comparable loadings for caliber and could easily think of it as the true middle ground between 357 and 44 magnums, considering the respective guns were not the same size. The 41 Special is in a very packable 3" GP100. I put on a glove after a couple of shots of 41 Special.
azsixshooter
New member
I traded a 4" 686 for a 5.5" Blackhawk Bisley in .41 Mag. For me, that was a great trade. I carry an SP101 in .357 Mag daily and I love that gun so much after working the trigger and adding a XS big dot tritium sight and hogue grips I hatdly ever shot the Smith anymore. I wanted something bigger for deer hunting and have always wanted a Blackhawk since I started shooting my uncle's old 3 screw .44 Mag. I tried for years to get anyone to trade me a .44 Mag BH straight-up for the 686 but never got any takers. When I saw the Bisley in .41 Mag I remembered an old cowboy friend of mine in AZ. He always carried a .41 and I valued his opinion a lot. He liked that the .41 shot flatter and kicked less than the .44 Mag and that he never needed more power than what the .41 delivered. And he was quick to point out that the .41 is a true .41 while the .44 is really .429. So what is a difference of .019"? Something like 3 or 4 human hairs? Not much. I knew ammo could be tough to find locally, but there is a lot of options available online and I handload so I wasn't too worried about that. So far I don't think the ammo is ridiculously priced at all. I got a box of Remington XTP 210 grain soft points with 788 ft/lbs of ME (more than either of Remingtons .44 Mag offerings in their XTP line) for about $45/50 rds. I shot a couple of cylinders of it and accuracy is superb, power level feels great. The gun I got has aftermarket Wolfe springs so the trigger is outstanding and I'm sure that contributes a lot of the accuracy as well. I just placed an order for a couple boxes of "bear loads" from Grizzly Cartridge company....265 gr hard cast lead wide flat nose slugs at 1153 ft/lbs of ME. Those were only $22/20 rds so for that kind of performance I don't see that as excessive.
In the end, if I was buying something new I would probably choose .44 Mag or maybe even .45 Colt. The more I learn about .45 Colt the more I think that might just be the best choice of all for me. My point is this though...I got a great gun that fits my needs perfectly and that I am very happy with because I wasn't afraid to go with the .41 Mag. It is a beautiful gun in awesome condition, looks like it was hardly ever shot at all. Locks up like a bank vault and not a scratch on it. Easy to shoot accurately, plenty of options for power levels, very packable (I even committed to buying a Diamond D Guides Choice chest rig for her) and popular with a lot of knowledgeable revolver experts, silouette shooters and wilderness-living folks. So I guess I can understand why many people would opt for the .44 Mag or, especially, the .45 Colt don't be afraid to get a .41 Mag if you come across a good one and if the chamberung picques your interest. So far she is a dandy for me, I can't wait to hit the deer woods with her next month!
In the end, if I was buying something new I would probably choose .44 Mag or maybe even .45 Colt. The more I learn about .45 Colt the more I think that might just be the best choice of all for me. My point is this though...I got a great gun that fits my needs perfectly and that I am very happy with because I wasn't afraid to go with the .41 Mag. It is a beautiful gun in awesome condition, looks like it was hardly ever shot at all. Locks up like a bank vault and not a scratch on it. Easy to shoot accurately, plenty of options for power levels, very packable (I even committed to buying a Diamond D Guides Choice chest rig for her) and popular with a lot of knowledgeable revolver experts, silouette shooters and wilderness-living folks. So I guess I can understand why many people would opt for the .44 Mag or, especially, the .45 Colt don't be afraid to get a .41 Mag if you come across a good one and if the chamberung picques your interest. So far she is a dandy for me, I can't wait to hit the deer woods with her next month!
Just a thought experiment:
Let's say Ruger offered a dedicated 3" GP-100 in .41 Special - say, with a fixed Novak rear sight and fiber optic front, like their TALO Edition 3" 10mm GP-100.
Would a .41 Special in that set up be preferable to a 3" Charter Arms 'Bulldog' in .44 Special?
'Difficult to source' 10mm AUTO ammo?
The magnum variant aside, I can go into any one of several LGS today, not to mention the regional Cabelas, and find a minimum of 5-6 different makes of factory 10mm AUTO, including Buffalo Bore, Sig, et al.
I'll maybe find one box of .41 Magnum, but some will have exactly none.
The Cabelas does have a few .41Mag loadings, but they have way more brands of 10mm in stock on the shelves.
I have both in .44 Special. The nice size and weight of the Bulldog is so much nicer to carry than the GP-100. The .41 wouldn't make the GP-100 any smaller or weigh less. My thoughts anyway.
On the other hand, I don't feel bad about burning lots of ammo in the stout GP-100, where the Bulldog I just shoot one or two cylinder full and call it 'good' every few months for familiarization. It's not an everyday shooter.
I don't think the problem with getting a .41 Mag is being afraid of them. I am sure the .41 Mag is a dandy cartridge... But to a man who already has .357, .44 Special, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt revolvers.... What is the logical point of owning and investing in the .41? As you say .41 is close to .429 anyway. As a reloader, I have a wide range of options for these cartridges, so I have no 'need' for the .41 ... or the .44-40, or .32-20, etc. Now I really like the .45 Colt and .44 Special, so I concentrate on them. That's my preference ... but others may really like the .41 Mag. I don't see the controversy here. A deer is just as dead being hit with a .41 as a .44 or a.45, or an 30-30... And a hole is a hole in paper targets, or tin cans... All good
TruthTellers
New member
Me personally, no. Why would I bother with a .41 Special, as in not even a .41 Magnum, when Ruger already makes this gun in 10mm Auto? IDK what .41 Special's pressure levels are and what kind of power I can expect from such a gun.Just a thought experiment:
Let's say Ruger offered a dedicated 3" GP-100 in .41 Special - say, with a fixed Novak rear sight and fiber optic front, like their TALO Edition 3" 10mm GP-100.
Would a .41 Special in that set up be preferable to a 3" Charter Arms 'Bulldog' in .44 Special?
With 10mm Auto in a revolver, I'm probably getting equal velocity to a .357 Magnum, but am shooting larger, heavier bullets.
stagpanther
New member
I've loaded both 10mm auto and 41 mag for years. If you're loading the 10 mm to full power--it's a dinky little case you're cramming volatile powder in. belling the mouth and seating the bullet is much more "delicate." I stretch those cases more often then the 41 cases--and I've also had them fail more often. 41 mag is closer to 44 mag in that it's more "comfortable" shooting powerful loads over and over.
What "41 Special" loading are you using?
I used the quotes because, as far as I can tell there's no SAAMI spec for a 41 Special cartridge so it can be pretty much anything the person/company loads it wants it to be within the safety limits imposed by the specific pistol in its converted form.
Look, I'm not arguing about the validity of your idea... you axed me a question, I answered it. If I didn't own a .41 Magnum already and you posed that question to me, my answer might be different, I don't really know. As I say, I think the 10mm as an autoloading cartridge is fantastic... it's the firearms it's been chambered in previously that kind of gave it a black eye... the Colt Delta Elite, the ill-fated Bren Ten. It looks like it's making a resurgence... and I argue the .41 Magnum is, too. Why else would Henry chamber a new rifle in it, and why Ruger continues to crank them out? As far as reloading components... I was reloading for the .41 back in the late '80's when there really was a shortage of components and ammunition, not so much today. No, it doesn't command as much shelf space as 9mm or even .44MAG, but it's there in a lot of places, and I suggest to you that most folks that shoot the .41 do so with handloaded ammunition. In 30 years I can count the number of boxes of factory .41 ammo I've bought on one hand.
As far as taking the 10mm MAG seriously... no. You think .41MAG ammo is rare on your LGS' shelf? ...and you are talking about a round that is not even chambered in a current production firearm. Will the 10mm MAG evolve and come to fruition? Don't know, don't care. I will throw you a bone, though... the 10mm MAG will probably show up before my L-frame .41MAG will.
My reverse logic is true... I own a .41... what do I need a .357, a .44SPC, or a .44MAG for?
And, for that matter... you find no logic in 'owning and investing in the .41' but you have 2 different .44's, a .45 Colt, and a .357?
I own a .44SPC... it does nothing that my medium .41MAG loads don't do already, except it comes in a very nice, handy pistol (a Ruger Flattop.) It is just about as handy as my .45 Colt Ruger Vaquero, give or take a few ounces.
I actually have the same criticism of the '.41SPC'... I know Starline makes brass for it, essentially reverse engineering it (-1/8" off the .41MAG case) but unless I've missed it, it is not produced in a production firearm. You can handload '.41SPC' cartridges, but what makes it a .41SPC and not just a light .41MAG load is the absence of definition.
.41 Specials are conversion guns in smaller frames than used for "large" caliber magnums. Mine is by Clement Custom and done on a 3" GP100 with adjustable sights. It holds 6 rounds. It is intended for concealed carry, which for me is in colder weather, when wearing enough for better concealment and including suspenders.
I have owned, cast bullets for several .41 Magnums: Ruger 5" Blackhawk (three-screw), M57 S&W 8-3/8, S&W M58, and a six inch M657.
One "advantage" I found relative to hand loading the .41 Magnum was that the size of the casing seemed just right to manipulate into the loading press whereas .38/.357 seem too small to get a good grip and the .44/.45 ACP/.44 Magnum cases seemed slightly too large in diameter for my small hands to get a comfortable and speedy grip. That may seem trivial to some, but the size of case allowed me to process it through the handloading process at faster rate than other cartridges. Some are going to discount that concept, and say that handloading speed is not important, but I am one that would rather be shooting than handloading.
One "advantage" I found relative to hand loading the .41 Magnum was that the size of the casing seemed just right to manipulate into the loading press whereas .38/.357 seem too small to get a good grip and the .44/.45 ACP/.44 Magnum cases seemed slightly too large in diameter for my small hands to get a comfortable and speedy grip. That may seem trivial to some, but the size of case allowed me to process it through the handloading process at faster rate than other cartridges. Some are going to discount that concept, and say that handloading speed is not important, but I am one that would rather be shooting than handloading.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Seems like one of the cartridges more difficult to source than 41 magnum is 10mm and certainly 10mm Magnum. Arguing ammo availability seems rather laughable."
I'm not sure where you live, but it doesn't come anywhere close to matching my experience. When I had a 10mm (EAA Witness) I had no problems finding multiple flavors of ammo.
Finding ammo for my .41 Mag? I'd be lucky to find one or two boxes of Remington or PMC; most often I'd find zero boxes.
Even at the big gun shows in the area it was always a chore to find .41 Mag. ammo.
I'm not sure where you live, but it doesn't come anywhere close to matching my experience. When I had a 10mm (EAA Witness) I had no problems finding multiple flavors of ammo.
Finding ammo for my .41 Mag? I'd be lucky to find one or two boxes of Remington or PMC; most often I'd find zero boxes.
Even at the big gun shows in the area it was always a chore to find .41 Mag. ammo.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I don't think the problem with getting a .41 Mag is being afraid of them. I am sure the .41 Mag is a dandy cartridge... But to a man who already has .357, .44 Special, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt revolvers.... What is the logical point of owning and investing in the .41? As you say .41 is close to .429 anyway. As a reloader, I have a wide range of options for these cartridges, so I have no 'need' for the .41 ... or the .44-40, or .32-20, etc. Now I really like the .45 Colt and .44 Special, so I concentrate on them. That's my preference ... but others may really like the .41 Mag."
Well, first off, to have is FAR better than to have not.
I love my .41 Mag. I have multiple .357s, a .44 Special, and a .45 Colt. I don't have a .44 Magnum as I have absolutely zero interest in the .44 Magnum.
If I were to come across an S&W Model 29 at a good price, I wouldn't pass it up, but I'm not on the hunt for one.
All of the above noted revolvers ARE Smith & Wessons. I've got a serious liking for S&W (2 of the .357s are earlier Charter Arms).
Oh, and I've also got two .32-20s, a Smith and a Colt.
As I said, to have is far better than to have not.
Well, first off, to have is FAR better than to have not.
I love my .41 Mag. I have multiple .357s, a .44 Special, and a .45 Colt. I don't have a .44 Magnum as I have absolutely zero interest in the .44 Magnum.
If I were to come across an S&W Model 29 at a good price, I wouldn't pass it up, but I'm not on the hunt for one.
All of the above noted revolvers ARE Smith & Wessons. I've got a serious liking for S&W (2 of the .357s are earlier Charter Arms).
Oh, and I've also got two .32-20s, a Smith and a Colt.
As I said, to have is far better than to have not.