Why so little love for .41 Mag??
- Thread starter Elliottsdad
- Start date
I have a Blackhawk I bought like new and have yet to shoot it, shortage of ammo, being the main reason.
I do have an anecdotal about the .41 and stopping power. Back in the early 80's a relative of mine was a new officer and him and his partner were called out to put down a cow that had sort of gone crazy on its owner. My relative being the rookie was told to go out into the cow pasture that was a fenced in area with trails in it and drive the cow towards the other officer and he was going to shoot it. My relative was said okay, but make sure you shoot the damned cow and not me! He went into the grown up pasture and sure enough drove it straight to the waiting officer with his M58 .41 Magnum and he shot it right between the eyes. The cow staggered and shook its head for a few seconds and then bolted right by the shooting officer and out through the fence. The round bounced right off leaving only a bloody spot. A couple of hours later the owner had tracked it down in a neighbors yard and dispatched it with a .12 gauge.
I do have an anecdotal about the .41 and stopping power. Back in the early 80's a relative of mine was a new officer and him and his partner were called out to put down a cow that had sort of gone crazy on its owner. My relative being the rookie was told to go out into the cow pasture that was a fenced in area with trails in it and drive the cow towards the other officer and he was going to shoot it. My relative was said okay, but make sure you shoot the damned cow and not me! He went into the grown up pasture and sure enough drove it straight to the waiting officer with his M58 .41 Magnum and he shot it right between the eyes. The cow staggered and shook its head for a few seconds and then bolted right by the shooting officer and out through the fence. The round bounced right off leaving only a bloody spot. A couple of hours later the owner had tracked it down in a neighbors yard and dispatched it with a .12 gauge.
ligonierbill
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I guess it makes for a good discussion, but I don't get love or hate when talking about a caliber. Being a "nut", my approach is usually "all of the above", and I do load and shoot .357 mag, .41 mag, .44 mag, and, oh yeah, .45 Colt. For me, it's the combination of revolver, caliber, and the specific load that makes a gun a pleasure or a pain to shoot.
My 44 is a Redhawk, and it is a pleasure to shoot with any load. I wouldn't buy a 41 RH. I have never fired the Super Blackhawk, but I understand Ruger used a steel frame more for the weight than the strength to tame some of the 44 mag recoil. The standard BH is a bit lighter. And I know the standard BH with a thermonuclear 45 load is a knuckle buster. I usually load it lighter, and I have the odd belief that it is sacrilegious to load other than cast in the Colt. The 41 Blackhawk is just right. Full house load of 210 JHP is still fun to shoot, and the pistol is just light enough for me to carry comfortably. So, in combination, I like it.
Regards the "special" rounds, of course 38 and 44 Special pre-date the magnums by several decades. No, there was not a 41 Special back in the day, but there was the .41 Long Colt. Unlike the others, it could not keep going with its choice of heeled or sub-bore hollow base bullets. But Elmer liked it, and in a strong Colt Army Special, it sends 200 cast out at 800 fps.
My 44 is a Redhawk, and it is a pleasure to shoot with any load. I wouldn't buy a 41 RH. I have never fired the Super Blackhawk, but I understand Ruger used a steel frame more for the weight than the strength to tame some of the 44 mag recoil. The standard BH is a bit lighter. And I know the standard BH with a thermonuclear 45 load is a knuckle buster. I usually load it lighter, and I have the odd belief that it is sacrilegious to load other than cast in the Colt. The 41 Blackhawk is just right. Full house load of 210 JHP is still fun to shoot, and the pistol is just light enough for me to carry comfortably. So, in combination, I like it.
Regards the "special" rounds, of course 38 and 44 Special pre-date the magnums by several decades. No, there was not a 41 Special back in the day, but there was the .41 Long Colt. Unlike the others, it could not keep going with its choice of heeled or sub-bore hollow base bullets. But Elmer liked it, and in a strong Colt Army Special, it sends 200 cast out at 800 fps.
Count me in the 41 magnum club also .Ya know, some of us just don't follow the crowd.
Me and my model 58 don't follow the pack either .
Bullet caster and reloader since 1967, I shoot the 41 all I want !
Gary
TruthTellers
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just a velocity I came up with. Still, I'd like to know if those 135 grain bullets are built for the velocities Underwood and Doubletap are claiming.
To me, if they're not, they have over expansion and underpenetration written all over them.
Hmmm... I was thinking .32-20, I always forget about the .32 S&W.
In it's original loading, the 10mm was slightly below the .41... I've never heard of the 10mm Magnum, is that in the same nebulous Never-Neverland as the .41 Special?
EDIT: I'm just funnin' you guys. Truly, I've never heard of the 10MM Mag although I see there were a few factory guns made for it. Even as a .41 fan I don't take the .41SPC seriously out of a .41MAG handgun... why would I fiddle around with a second lot of brass for low-velocity loads when I can just download my .41MAG brass? That is not to say a .41SPC revolver sized for that cartridge wouldn't be neat, but it would be an anomaly... much like the 10mm MAG.
Now, who's going to start the 10MM MAG vs the .44MAG thread???
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"Enablers-R-Us"
TruthTellers
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I brought up 10mm Mag because it's virtually identical to the .41 Mag and is proven to work fine in medium frame revolvers. 10mm Mag would easily be a very popular middle ground cartridge between .357 and .44 Magnum solely for cheap .40 S&W ammo. Not to mention the 10mm Mag would be a lot more powerful than .357, but far from the heavy recoil of .44 Mag.
Considering the title of the thread, I don't think the 10 mm Magnum took any "love" away from .41 Magnum...certainly not enough to cause its decline. As a cartridge that head spaces on the rim, I think the 41 adapts equally to single action or double. Single action 10 mm I expect would be a convertible with two cylinders, maybe a third for 40 S&W.
TruthTellers
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Yeah, 10mm Mag wouldn't be a good choice for single actions. I was looking at the Ruger Blackhawk in 10mm and was thinking "That's be a great revolver for 10 Mag... oh, but then I can't shoot 10mm Auto anymore."
Wouldn't be a total deal breaker, I'm not sure if I had 10mm Mag if I'd find some niche use for 10mm Auto where 10mm Mag would be a poor choice and .40 would be too weak.
The point I made was if I had the choice of a .41 Mag and a 10mm Mag revolver was I would buy the 10mm Mag in a heartbest given I have several guns in .40 and will likely buy a Glock 20 in the future.
Honestly, the only Glock I've ever considered buying, even though it's not likely to happen.
I think comparing the 10mm to the .41 is reasonable, and not too much of a stretch; I think they are exclusive of each other and didn't steal any thunder from either or. I've never really warmed up to the idea of auto cartridges in a revolver, but I can see their merits in a gamer pistol (using moon clips, etc.) I've never really warmed up to revolver cartridges in an auto, either... even given that the Desert Eagle was made in .41.
TruthTellers
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What if the 10mm Magnum had a rim on the case so it didn't need moon clips, but was cut for moon clips so you could also shoot 10mm Auto and .40 S&W? Would you buy that revolver over a .41 Mag?
Interesting theory... If people are talking about the .41 being a split hair between the .357 and the .44, a rimmed 10mm MAG would be splitting a frog hair 4-ways between the 3 other rounds. To answer your question... no. Why? Because I already have a .41 and am tooled up for it. I don't really use all the power the .41 has available (I don't hunt, for example.) With the exception of my dalliance with the .44SPC, which will probably be ending soon, I have never seen a reason to own a .44, nor will I probably ever... it isn't on the radar. Same with the .357... I got completely out of the .38/.357 business about 4 years ago for the very same reason talked about here... it was a redundant cartridge against the .41.
As far as the 10mm/.40 cal debate... I don't like the .40S&W, I've shot it in a friend's Glock and didn't really think it offered anything over the 9mm or .45ACP as a carry or service piece cartridge... besides snappy recoil and muzzle blast (based on my experience, only.) I think there is real merit to the 10mm as an autoloading cartridge... for someone who needs the power of a revolver in an autoloading platform, there are few rivals outside of hunting or specialty firearms, truly. I don't see any need for a 10mm MAG, besides the same excuse for cartridges like the .454 Casull and the .500 S&W... a niche cartridge for a specific purpose. As a service cartridge, I don't think it has much merit, based only on the pedestrian knowledge I have of it, it doesn't seem suitable in that role.
Further, you could take your premise and apply it either direction... why not a .39MAG, or a (true) .38MAG... or, going the other direction... a .42 MAG or .43 MAG... ooops, we already have one of those, don't we?
TruthTellers
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^ A .38 or .39 Mag doesn't have the capability to shoot .40 or 10mm Auto, but a 10mm Mag does.
Do you see how that can appeal to others who don't have a .41 Mag, but might be looking for that in between .357 and .44 Mag in a revolver?
My point with 10mm Magnum is there's a reason .41 Magnum failed, it's not popular because it doesn't do anything a .44 can't and because the ammo can't be bought at Walmart or your local gun store. I'll check my LGS for .41 Mag next time I go, but I doubt he'll have any and if he does, it won't be for less than $1.50 a round. The cheapest I can find non Cowboy Action .41 Mag ammo online is Hornady stuff for $.90/round.
You give people the option of being able to shoot .40 S&W that you can actually find and buy for 25 cents a round and its low recoil makes great for plinking, but also give them the option of 10mm Mag they can get for the same price as the serious .41 Magnum if they're doing handgun hunting or just want something with more power than .357 when they're out camping or hiking, they'll be interested.
Look at how 10mm Auto is making a resurgence, there's a demand for a high power .40-ish caliber cartridge and a 10mm Mag revolver is no slouch. Ruger sees this, there's a reason they put the 10mm Auto in the GP100, there's a reason they made the SR1911 in 10mm.
Do you see how that can appeal to others who don't have a .41 Mag, but might be looking for that in between .357 and .44 Mag in a revolver?
My point with 10mm Magnum is there's a reason .41 Magnum failed, it's not popular because it doesn't do anything a .44 can't and because the ammo can't be bought at Walmart or your local gun store. I'll check my LGS for .41 Mag next time I go, but I doubt he'll have any and if he does, it won't be for less than $1.50 a round. The cheapest I can find non Cowboy Action .41 Mag ammo online is Hornady stuff for $.90/round.
You give people the option of being able to shoot .40 S&W that you can actually find and buy for 25 cents a round and its low recoil makes great for plinking, but also give them the option of 10mm Mag they can get for the same price as the serious .41 Magnum if they're doing handgun hunting or just want something with more power than .357 when they're out camping or hiking, they'll be interested.
Look at how 10mm Auto is making a resurgence, there's a demand for a high power .40-ish caliber cartridge and a 10mm Mag revolver is no slouch. Ruger sees this, there's a reason they put the 10mm Auto in the GP100, there's a reason they made the SR1911 in 10mm.
TruthTellers
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I'll admit that most of my thoughts on 10mm Magnum are theoretical. There are currently no production revolvers in the chambering, the only way to get a 10mm Mag revolver is to send a 10mm Auto revolver to a gunsmith and have them ream the chambers out.
I'm just saying if Ruger or S&W made a 10mm Mag revolver, I'd buy it over a .41 Mag. When I can shoot factory ammo in it for a quarter dollar a shot, even though it's weaker, it's more sensible to me given I have several guns chambered in .40 and would gladly reload the 10mm Mag for the extra power when it's needed.
The thread is about why people don't like .41 Mag as much as other options and I've given many reasons why I'd rather spend my money on something else.
I'm just saying if Ruger or S&W made a 10mm Mag revolver, I'd buy it over a .41 Mag. When I can shoot factory ammo in it for a quarter dollar a shot, even though it's weaker, it's more sensible to me given I have several guns chambered in .40 and would gladly reload the 10mm Mag for the extra power when it's needed.
The thread is about why people don't like .41 Mag as much as other options and I've given many reasons why I'd rather spend my money on something else.